Could be the biggest underachieving team in UT history

#301
#301
NEO said:
He asked a two fold question: better and who we could get.

There are plenty who are better but getting them is the second part.

Nobody doing well is going to come to TN and leave a basketball conference.

If Brad Stevens heads back to the ncaa that could be a possibility but he will be offered every job in the world.
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Is Wes Miller really better, though? That’s my question. If a potential replacement isn’t a clear upgrade, why would an AD even entertain the idea of making a switch? Miller’s track record doesn’t suggest he’s better. He doesn’t apparently have high-major ADs beating his door down or he wouldn’t still be at UNC-G after 10 seasons.

I guess we mostly disagree on the idea that there are plenty out there who are better (or perhaps our definition of “plenty” differs), but few who would come. I don’t think we pony up $5 million a year to a coach who is easily replaceable if the number of better replacements is as innumerable as you seem to believe. I don’t think UCLA offers that same coach $5 million a year if there is an enormous pool of better coaches who would do the job for less money.
 
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#303
#303
NEO said:
Name calling isn't nice Ricky.

Barnes is in a serious decline.

You question was two fold so I had to base my answer on both.

Keep it non personal man. Sheesh.
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I don’t mean you personally outside of being a UK fan
 
#304
#304
Rickyvol77 said:
I don’t mean you personally outside of being a UK fan
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I am not a UK fan anymore. I am a rick pitino fan. I followed him to Louisville and rooted for them and now root for iona. The only team I truly follow is vols football and wv football and basketball. I like Huggins more than barnes but he is a bit of a drinker lol.
 
#305
#305
NEO said:
I am not a UK fan anymore. I am a rick pitino fan. I followed him to Louisville and rooted for them and now root for iona. The only team I truly follow is vols football and wv football and basketball. I like Huggins more than barnes but he is a bit of a drinker lol.
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Huggins is an outstanding coach.

WV is lucky to have him.
 
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#306
#306
cncchris33 said:
Is Wes Miller really better, though? That’s my question. If a potential replacement isn’t a clear upgrade, why would an AD even entertain the idea of making a switch? Miller’s track record doesn’t suggest he’s better. He doesn’t apparently have high-major ADs beating his door down or he wouldn’t still be at UNC-G after 10 seasons.

I guess we mostly disagree on the idea that there are plenty out there who are better (or perhaps our definition of “plenty” differs), but few who would come. I don’t think we pony up $5 million a year to a coach who is easily replaceable if the number of better replacements is as innumerable as you seem to believe. I don’t think UCLA offers that same coach $5 million a year if there is an enormous pool of better coaches who would do the job for less money.
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I dont think there are plenty.

I think there are a few coaches, less than 5, who can win a championship at any school.

I only put Calipari in that list right now due to his recruiting ability but he is not a great teacher in my opinion or on the level of a knight or coach k.

Then there is a few more guys that are below this who are in the hunt and will get lucky at some point and win one. I say about 5 to 15 of these exist like bill self.

Then the rest are either average or fired. I put Barnes in the average to slightly above average group.
 
#307
#307
NEO said:
Name calling isn't nice Ricky.

Barnes is in a serious decline.

You question was two fold so I had to base my answer on both.

Keep it non personal man. Sheesh.
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Laughable that you believe Barnes is in a "serious decline"
 
#309
#309
NEO said:
I dont think there are plenty.

I think there are a few coaches, less than 5, who can win a championship at any school.

I only put Calipari in that list right now due to his recruiting ability but he is not a great teacher in my opinion or on the level of a knight or coach k.

Then there is a few more guys that are below this who are in the hunt and will get lucky at some point and win one. I say about 5 to 15 of these exist like bill self.

Then the rest are either average or fired. I put Barnes in the average to slightly above average group.
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Well, I was only using your words...
NEO said:
There are plenty who are better but getting them is the second part.
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And again, I ask, is Wes Miller really an upgrade given his resume? I don't see how it can legitimately be argued that he is, which is why I think it would be an enormous gamble.
 
#310
#310
cncchris33 said:
Well, I was only using your words...


And again, I ask, is Wes Miller really an upgrade given his resume? I don't see how it can legitimately be argued that he is, which is why I think it would be an enormous gamble.
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Barnes may be the only coach in history who was offered huge deals by both Kentucky and UCLA, far and away the 2 most storied programs. Turned them both down too, but for different reasons.
 
#312
#312
cncchris33 said:
Well, I was only using your words...


And again, I ask, is Wes Miller really an upgrade given his resume? I don't see how it can legitimately be argued that he is, which is why I think it would be an enormous gamble.
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I think there are plenty of coaches in barnes caliber. I do not think there are alot of great coaches. Great is a very tough thing to be specific about though and not just opinion.

Would Huggins have done as well as Bill Self or even better if he was at Kansas and not at WV or Cinci? His resume shows he is very close to Barnes on paper but he has always seem to do more with less. On paper both are very similar but I think Huggins is much better.

I do believe Wes being at a mid major has hurt his resume as it's much harder to get an invite and I would agree it's a gamble.

There are two different agreements though.

Is a coach better than Barnes?

Can UT get a better coach than Barnes?

I can name multiple coaches I think are better than Barnes but cannot name many I think would take the job. My comments were never that TN could potentially get a better coach. I simply said I dont think he is very good.

This is not meant as a knock against UT. The sec is not considered a basketball conference so outside of KY a top coach will want to to an ACC, Big 10 conference or Big East. We are competing more with conferences than schools.

I do think TN needs to look for an up and coming coach if it wants to win big. It will take a gamble but Barnes will never win the SEC tournament or get past the elite 8 again. He just gets too predictable and is easy to coach against.

Just my opinion though....
 
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#313
#313
NEO said:
I think there are plenty of coaches in barnes caliber. I do not think there are alot of great coaches. Great is a very tough thing to be specific about though and not just opinion.

Would Huggins have done as well as Bill Self or even better if he was at Kansas and not at WV or Cinci? His resume shows he is very close to Barnes on paper but he has always seem to do more with less. On paper both are very similar but I think Huggins is much better.

I do believe Wes being at a mid major has hurt his resume as it's much harder to get an invite and I would agree it's a gamble.

There are two different agreements though.

Is a coach better than Barnes?

Can UT get a better coach than Barnes?

I can name multiple coaches I think are better than Barnes but cannot name many I think would take the job. My comments were never that TN could potentially get a better coach. I simply said I dont think he is very good.

This is not meant as a knock against UT. The sec is not considered a basketball conference so outside of KY a top coach will want to to an ACC, Big 10 conference or Big East. We are competing more with conferences than schools.

I do think TN needs to look for an up and coming coach if it wants to win big. It will take a gamble but Barnes will never win the SEC tournament or get past the elite 8 again. He just gets too predictable and is easy to coach against.

Just my opinion though....
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The discussion seems to be wildly shifting, and the dual-pronged nature of the argument allows for an escape clause for you (Is a coach better...can we land them?).

Let’s return to the crux of my original opposition and re-center on Wes Miller. You indicated that you thought he was a better coach than Barnes, true or false?

You also indicated that he’d likely come here, which is really underselling the obvious (of course he’d come here, especially when we likely increase his current salary 7-fold).

So, are you advocating that replacing Barnes with Wes Miller is in the best interest of the Tennessee basketball program? I called that a huge gamble, which another poster aptly exclaimed, was likely being overly-kind to the idea. I’ll happily admit that Barnes has botched a lot of things during this season, in recruiting leading up to this season, and in how he has managed this group of kids. I’ll even admit that it’s possible he has just lost this group, but I sure wouldn’t trade him for Wes Miller.

And again, you said there were plenty out there that are better, but I’ve only seen one name that makes sense as a career move. I agree someone from an established program in a higher profile basketball conference isn’t making that move, though I think you are really underselling the SEC as a basketball conference. Steve Forbes would probably make that move. Brad Brownell would consider it, as would Mike Young. That is just 3 from the ACC that would be guys you might even want. I excluded Pastner, Larranaga, and Keatts because we shouldn’t even consider them. The SEC and more specifically, Tennessee, are at their highest profile in some time in basketball. This is an attractive job.
 
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#314
#314
cncchris33 said:
The discussion seems to be wildly shifting, and the dual-pronged nature of the argument allows for an escape clause for you (Is a coach better...can we land them?).

Let’s return to the crux of my original opposition and re-center on Wes Miller. You indicated that you thought he was a better coach than Barnes, true or false?

You also indicated that he’d likely come here, which is really underselling the obvious (of course he’d come here, especially when we likely increase his current salary 7-fold).

So, are you advocating that replacing Barnes with Wes Miller is in the best interest of the Tennessee basketball program? I called that a huge gamble, which another poster aptly exclaimed, was likely being overly-kind to the idea. I’ll happily admit that Barnes has botched a lot of things during this season, in recruiting leading up to this season, and in how he has managed this group of kids. I’ll even admit that it’s possible he has just lost this group, but I sure wouldn’t trade him for Wes Miller.

And again, you said there were plenty out there that are better, but I’ve only seen one name that makes sense as a career move. I agree someone from an established program in a higher profile basketball conference isn’t making that move, though I think you are really underselling the SEC as a basketball conference. Steve Forbes would probably make that move. Brad Brownell would consider it, as would Mike Young. That is just 3 from the ACC that would be guys you might even want. I excluded Pastner, Larranaga, and Keatts because we shouldn’t even consider them. The SEC and more specifically, Tennessee, are at their highest profile in some time in basketball. This is an attractive job.
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I don’t disagree that Tennessee will be an attractive job whenever Barnes decides to leave, however there’s very few coaches who are for sure “upgrades” over Barnes.

If you’re talking about Bill Self, Jay Wright, Tony Bennett, Chris beard, none of those type of coaches are going to leave their situations to come here.

Realistically, we’ll probably end up with an young up & comer. He’s either going to be the next great thing or a complete flop. It’s a gamble no matter what happens.
 
#315
#315
cncchris33 said:
The discussion seems to be wildly shifting, and the dual-pronged nature of the argument allows for an escape clause for you (Is a coach better...can we land them?).

Let’s return to the crux of my original opposition and re-center on Wes Miller. You indicated that you thought he was a better coach than Barnes, true or false?

You also indicated that he’d likely come here, which is really underselling the obvious (of course he’d come here, especially when we likely increase his current salary 7-fold).

So, are you advocating that replacing Barnes with Wes Miller is in the best interest of the Tennessee basketball program? I called that a huge gamble, which another poster aptly exclaimed, was likely being overly-kind to the idea. I’ll happily admit that Barnes has botched a lot of things during this season, in recruiting leading up to this season, and in how he has managed this group of kids. I’ll even admit that it’s possible he has just lost this group, but I sure wouldn’t trade him for Wes Miller.

And again, you said there were plenty out there that are better, but I’ve only seen one name that makes sense as a career move. I agree someone from an established program in a higher profile basketball conference isn’t making that move, though I think you are really underselling the SEC as a basketball conference. Steve Forbes would probably make that move. Brad Brownell would consider it, as would Mike Young. That is just 3 from the ACC that would be guys you might even want. I excluded Pastner, Larranaga, and Keatts because we shouldn’t even consider them. The SEC and more specifically, Tennessee, are at their highest profile in some time in basketball. This is an attractive job.
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Ricky asked me a twofold question: a coach who I think is better and who would come here. I answered the question based upon his parameters. I did not shift. I specifically answered his question.

Yes I think wes miller wouldn't have loss to Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and Ky this year with these players. I do think wes miller would have more upside as Barnes has been dismal in the tournament so far based upon our seeding.

I was only asking the question I was asked. Do I think Miller is the Coach K? No. But I also think Barnes is on a decline and we are never going to get any higher than a sweet 16 at best with him again.

Now the question is should we be content with just making the tournament and knowing the round of 32 or sweet 16 is our ceiling or do we shoot for more?

I am not advocating a wes miller hire. I am simply saying Barnes ceiling has been established.
 
#316
#316
cncchris33 said:
The discussion seems to be wildly shifting, and the dual-pronged nature of the argument allows for an escape clause for you (Is a coach better...can we land them?).

Let’s return to the crux of my original opposition and re-center on Wes Miller. You indicated that you thought he was a better coach than Barnes, true or false?

You also indicated that he’d likely come here, which is really underselling the obvious (of course he’d come here, especially when we likely increase his current salary 7-fold).

So, are you advocating that replacing Barnes with Wes Miller is in the best interest of the Tennessee basketball program? I called that a huge gamble, which another poster aptly exclaimed, was likely being overly-kind to the idea. I’ll happily admit that Barnes has botched a lot of things during this season, in recruiting leading up to this season, and in how he has managed this group of kids. I’ll even admit that it’s possible he has just lost this group, but I sure wouldn’t trade him for Wes Miller.

And again, you said there were plenty out there that are better, but I’ve only seen one name that makes sense as a career move. I agree someone from an established program in a higher profile basketball conference isn’t making that move, though I think you are really underselling the SEC as a basketball conference. Steve Forbes would probably make that move. Brad Brownell would consider it, as would Mike Young. That is just 3 from the ACC that would be guys you might even want. I excluded Pastner, Larranaga, and Keatts because we shouldn’t even consider them. The SEC and more specifically, Tennessee, are at their highest profile in some time in basketball. This is an attractive job.
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cncchris for president! You say the word, and I will be the best campaign manager you could ever dream of.
 
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#319
#319
NEO said:
I am not a UK fan anymore. I am a rick pitino fan. I followed him to Louisville and rooted for them and now root for iona. The only team I truly follow is vols football and wv football and basketball. I like Huggins more than barnes but he is a bit of a drinker lol.
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This cracks me up. Go root for UK, Louisville, or whoever. Your arguments are truly non-sensical at best, and ludicrous in reality.
 
#322
#322
cardvolfan said:
This cracks me up. Go root for UK, Louisville, or whoever. Your arguments are truly non-sensical at best, and ludicrous in reality.
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My opinion is about as unbiased as it will get on here.

I am sorry it offends it.

I am rooting for both WV and TN as I was born in WV and live in TN. I root for iona too but its ivy league so not much to watch.

If WV and TN both play each other I will be pretty neutral but lean WV since I know Huggins can take his team further.
 
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