Criminal Justice System reform.

#27
#27
InVOLuntary said:
We should be able to sue the government for actions that are in error. We should be able to sue them personally for wrongful acts. Judges should also be held personally accountable for wrongful actions.
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There is no way that would happen. No criminal justice system would be able to operate under that. Kinda like the president is supposed to be "free" from civil suit during his teneer, or else he would just spend all his time in court. It would be similar with cops and judges. And at least with cops that would get rid of even more cops.
 
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#28
#28
LouderVol said:
There is no way that would happen. No criminal justice system would be able to operate under that. Kinda like the president is supposed to be "free" from civil suit during his teneer, or else he would just spend all his time in court. It would be similar with cops and judges. And at least with cops that would get rid of even more cops.
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What about crappy DA's that file bogus charges? One of my kids got charged with a drug felony for being in the car with someone that had been buying sudafed to resell at a handsome profit. No evidence against my kid, just in the wrong car at the wrong time. Several thousand dollars and several months later the charges were dropped. As the lawyer said, they hope that everyone asks for judicial diversion so the DA gets a conviction and they never have to go to court.
 
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#29
#29
VolStrom said:
What about crappy DA's that file bogus charges? One of my kids got charged with a drug felony for being in the car with someone that had been buying sudafed to resell at a handsome profit. No evidence against my kid, just in the wrong car at the wrong time. Several thousand dollars and several months later the charges were dropped. As the lawyer said, they hope that everyone asks for judicial diversion so the DA gets a conviction and they never have to go to court.
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I'm sure that happens every day.
 
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#30
#30
RockyTop85 said:
I mean, I agree and it’s annoying to lose one of those suppression motions where the officer says the stop wasn’t complete but has no reasonable explanation for how long it takes or how long it should have taken and the judge just doesn’t want to second guess them, but I don’t really see a workable bright line rule in that scenario.
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Ok. So let's tinker with the hypothetical. Since there is no skirting the ambiguous and discretionary phrases in a ruling like this. should the police force be required to compensate someone for their time wasted?

Ex: Let's say my recovered theft vehicle was impounded and searched while I was detained for 8 hours with nothing found. I should expect a check for 8 hours x some rate to compensate me for my time. Yes?
 
#31
#31
LouderVol said:
I am wondering if a revamped Miranda Rights are needed. The cops should have to state these rights in order to detain you more than X minutes, or it invalidates their.detainment and anything they find or do. And hopefully in these Miranda rights is the state law about detainment, and that point Rocky made about the initial stop. I had a similar situation as what Ras talked about happen to me, and I had no clue how to act except to comply and hope for the best.

Another thing that would be right at the top of my list of things to be fixed is "resisting arrest". Wayyyy too broad, gets applied way too easily, and even though it eventually gets thrown out I have known people who got jailed and nothing else is listed beyond "resisting arrest" in their booking. It's an easy one to slap on you while they go digging for more.
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How would you hone in the definition of resisting arrest?
 
#32
#32
InVOLuntary said:
We should be able to sue the government for actions that are in error. We should be able to sue them personally for wrongful acts. Judges should also be held personally accountable for wrongful actions.
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Can we not, now? We can sue for false arrest and such. Does the ability to sue a LEO or GA end there?
 
#34
#34
VolStrom said:
What about crappy DA's that file bogus charges? One of my kids got charged with a drug felony for being in the car with someone that had been buying sudafed to resell at a handsome profit. No evidence against my kid, just in the wrong car at the wrong time. Several thousand dollars and several months later the charges were dropped. As the lawyer said, they hope that everyone asks for judicial diversion so the DA gets a conviction and they never have to go to court.
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That kinda stuff is complete BS.

There needs to be a consequence experienced by the DA's office for reckless charging, imo.
 
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#35
#35
VolStrom said:
What about crappy DA's that file bogus charges? One of my kids got charged with a drug felony for being in the car with someone that had been buying sudafed to resell at a handsome profit. No evidence against my kid, just in the wrong car at the wrong time. Several thousand dollars and several months later the charges were dropped. As the lawyer said, they hope that everyone asks for judicial diversion so the DA gets a conviction and they never have to go to court.
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I am not saying that nothing should be done. I just dont think you can open things up to all the frivolous lawsuits that will pop up. More than half of 911 calls arent related to anything the cops/first responders should be responding too. Everyone one of those calls that werent responded to by a cop would be subject to one of these lawsuits when Karen doesnt get what she wants.
 
#36
#36
McDad said:
Ok. So let's tinker with the hypothetical. Since there is no skirting the ambiguous and discretionary phrases in a ruling like this. should the police force be required to compensate someone for their time wasted?

Ex: Let's say my recovered theft vehicle was impounded and searched while I was detained for 8 hours with nothing found. I should expect a check for 8 hours x some rate to compensate me for my time. Yes?
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They're not going to spend 8 hours of their time looking for "drugs" and not find anything. The police are as corrupt as criminals are, they are just on the other side of the jail cell.
 
#37
#37
VolStrom said:
They're not going to spend 8 hours of their time looking for "drugs" and not find anything. The police are as corrupt as criminals are, they are just on the other side of the jail cell.
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Since it is my hypothetical and I get to set the terms, they aren't corrupt.

Deal with it, old timer.
 
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#38
#38
McDad said:
How would you hone in the definition of resisting arrest?
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I think it has to be tied to violence, and it should only apply after an arrest has been reasonably attempted peacefully. Shrugging off the cops grasp, even if you stay put, can be considered resisting arrest.

The cops, currently, can use violence as a means of compliance when it often isnt justified.
 
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#39
#39
LouderVol said:
I think it has to be tied to violence, and it should only apply after an arrest has been reasonably attempted peacefully. Shrugging off the cops grasp, even if you stay put, can be considered resisting arrest.

The cops, currently, can use violence as a means of compliance when it often isnt justified.
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Violence as critical to resisting was part of Hog's definition as well. Makes a lot of sense.
 
#40
#40
LouderVol said:
I am not saying that nothing should be done. I just dont think you can open things up to all the frivolous lawsuits that will pop up. More than half of 911 calls arent related to anything the cops/first responders should be responding too. Everyone one of those calls that werent responded to by a cop would be subject to one of these lawsuits when Karen doesnt get what she wants.
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I called 911 last summer for the first time in my life. I had gone to retrieve my motor home from the storage lot and when I went to leave the gate wouldn't open. I was trapped behind an 8 foot chain link fence with barbed wire on top. I tried calling the storage company first and India was no help. Luckily, it wasn't the cop's first rodeo with this storage lot, and he knew where to reset the gate opener.
I wouldn't have called 911 if they had an easy to dial non-emergency number.
 
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#42
#42
VolStrom said:
I've never been arrested, but unless your arms are like spaghetti noodles, resisting arrest is automatic from what I've been told.
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I don't believe all cops are bad cops. That may be naive on my part, but I don't think the good ones are out to get you.

FTR, never arrested either. On brushes with the law are traffic stops and a brief, verbal argument with a cop at Nashville airport.
 
#43
#43
VolStrom said:
I called 911 last summer for the first time in my life. I had gone to retrieve my motor home from the storage lot and when I went to leave the gate wouldn't open. I was trapped behind an 8 foot chain link fence with barbed wire on top. I tried calling the storage company first and India was no help. Luckily, it wasn't the cop's first rodeo with this storage lot, and he knew where to reset the gate opener.
I wouldn't have called 911 if they had an easy to dial non-emergency number.
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It ought to be 911 for emergencies and 119 for anything else.
 
#44
#44
VolStrom said:
I've never been arrested, but unless your arms are like spaghetti noodles, resisting arrest is automatic from what I've been told.
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I'm pretty sure the first time I was arrested the cop was going to charge me with resisting until he found out he just beat a 16yo bloody.
 
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#45
#45
McDad said:
Violence as critical to resisting was part of Hog's definition as well. Makes a lot of sense.
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I think it needs to be tied back to what a civilian can do. If there is a risk of bodily harm where a citizen would be justified in using violence to defend themselves, resisting arrest is justified. I guess it goes back to qualified immunity and them just operating under a different set of rules. At some point they have to, but currently they can justify violence too easily.
 
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#46
#46
VolStrom said:
I called 911 last summer for the first time in my life. I had gone to retrieve my motor home from the storage lot and when I went to leave the gate wouldn't open. I was trapped behind an 8 foot chain link fence with barbed wire on top. I tried calling the storage company first and India was no help. Luckily, it wasn't the cop's first rodeo with this storage lot, and he knew where to reset the gate opener.
I wouldn't have called 911 if they had an easy to dial non-emergency number.
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I think at that point it is a case for first responders, maybe not the cops, but firemen have keys to EVERYTHING, or a code.

I am talking about complaints at McDonalds because they ran out of ketchup or got the order wrong.
 
#47
#47
McDad said:
I don't believe all cops are bad cops. That may be naive on my part, but I don't think the good ones are out to get you.

FTR, never arrested either. On brushes with the law are traffic stops and a brief, verbal argument with a cop at Nashville airport.
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I don't either, but those that do suck sure do make it hard on the rest of them. For the record, my oldest friend on earth was a cop.
 
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#49
#49
LouderVol said:
I am talking about complaints at McDonalds because they ran out of ketchup or got the order wrong.
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Situations like these are when the discretion of the 911 operator should be taken into consideration. They say we'll be right there and hang up.
Now, if the McDonald's calls back and says we have a crazy person here bitchin about ketchup, then roll the squads.
 
#50
#50
RockyTop85 said:
I think that’s the answer. We shouldn’t want cops and others scared to do anything, but we obviously don’t want them enabled to do absolutely everything, either.
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I think the cops should be scared to violate your rights.

There is no way that a cop should force a citizen to give up their rights due to the implied threat of extreme inconvenience.
 
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