Cross Divisional Rivals: Thoughts?

[TXA&M07]

meh, its not that compelling to me as the others. I can make a case for several more, but those listed are prime matchups IMO.

Kinda like the OOC matchups I left off. UF-FSU, SCAR-CLEMSON, ect...

We could have one too, but some folks are a bit scared right now.

 

[gnm53108]

Arky in the East/ Tenn in the West? Cant see that being good for Tenn, but I bet Arky would be down for it.

Losing fl and ga would hurt but I'd except it to keep bammer....and TN and AU had a pretty good rivalry going too. Miss that one.

vandy, ky, and usc I dont think many would care about.

 

[99gator]

meh, its not that compelling to me as the others. I can make a case for several more, but those listed are prime matchups IMO.

Kinda like the OOC matchups I left off. UF-FSU, SCAR-CLEMSON, ect...

We could have one too, but some folks are a bit scared right now.

dude....really?

auburn and georgia is the oldest rivalry in the south.

you said you don't like people telling you who your rival should be and then go post something like this.

seriously?

 

[gnm53108]

meh, its not that compelling to me as the others. I can make a case for several more, but those listed are prime matchups IMO.

Kinda like the OOC matchups I left off. UF-FSU, SCAR-CLEMSON, ect...

We could have one too, but some folks are a bit scared right now.

Yep.

 

[volatil]

If you're scared, get a dog. Our series with bama goes in streaks. We'll get'em again, and when we do it will be about 4-5 years in a row.

 

[DarthVisor]

Personally, I think having set in stone cross divisional rivals that are permanently in place is both meaningful to the fan base, and detrimental to the program.


As a long time fan of SEC athletics, it seems that in many of the major sports, there is consistent ebb and flow between the East and West in regards to success year after year. There was a time not too long ago that I would have considered the East a much tougher division than the West in football. I think as programs evolve and experience coaching changes, this continues to this day. Same for baseball, and basketball IMO.

Linking yourself to a cross division rival can hurt, although it really shouldn't in voting and rankings. Take for instance LSU schedule next year. Now compare it to Alabama's.

What about the concept of us being linked to SCAR. Eventually the ole ball coach is going to retire. Where will that leave us? Hell, take your Vols next season.

I understand tradition, believe me, but handcuffing schools together in this evolving environment seems to be a touchy and difficult subject to justify. I can see the good and the bad.

Whats the consensus from the hill fellas?

To hell with cross-divisional rivals. I'm not at all in support of playing A&M every season. In fact, I'm not quite sure why Mizzou is getting Arkansas and we are getting A&M. Given that Mizzou and A&M are the new teams to the conference, I would think that it would make more sense, especially when considering the geography, to make A&M Mizzou's permanent rival.

 

[TXA&M07]

99, heres how I see it, and what I believe is the consensus around here. Barn caught lightning in a paycheck a few years back and were relevant again. UGA is consistently overhyped year after year since Helen Hunt's twin took over.

Historically, I understand that it used to be must see tv, but I'm looking at the "new SEC".

Do you really see Barn catching UGA in the next 2-3 years cause I dont. Adds to my point that the SEC evolves. Programs are up for a few years, then fall off. Barn is down. Arky is down, Tenn is down. All of them were more than up within the last decade or so.

If it means that much to you, I'll say Barn-UGA is a damn good matchup if/when both teams are in the hunt. But how good is Barn going to be after getting whipped by LSU, Ole Miss, possibly Tenn, and us prior to playing UGA?

 

[TrueOrange]

That ebb and flow will return to football as well. Its a cycle - our series with Bama has always been streaky. how do you think they felt during our run at the top? It all comes and goes.

Does it suck that while we get Bama other east schools get OM or MSU? Yes - but I wouldn't have it any other way.

Could you imagine being in the big 12 and NOT playing against texas?

Btw, those schools that get traditional mehs in the west like Ole Miss and Miss St are traditional mehs like Vandy and Kentucky

 

[TXA&M07]

Thus far we've got Mizzou every year. Kinda tired of them to be honest. Still a little ticked they came in with us.

 

[TrueOrange]

To hell with cross-divisional rivals. I'm not at all in support of playing A&M every season. In fact, I'm not quite sure why Mizzou is getting Arkansas and we are getting A&M. Given that Mizzou and A&M are the new teams to the conference, I would think that it would make more sense, especially when considering the geography, to make A&M Mizzou's permanent rival.

The league wants to try to turn Missouri-Arkansas into a bigger rivalry

 

[DarthVisor]

The league wants to try to turn Missouri-Arkansas into a bigger rivalry

Ta hell wit dat

 

[volboy81]

Wouldn't want to give up Bama. I grew to HATE them in the 70s when they beat us 11 straight times & that hate has only increased lately. I miss the Auburn rivalry but the rivalry w/GA replaced it pretty good...I wouldn't mind giving up FL since we hardly ever played them in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s & 80s when they weren't any good & they're not really southern anyway...that's just a rivalry born out of Spurrier, divisional play & the fact that we led the charge to strip them of their 1984 SEC title that they cheated mightily to get. I'd rather renew our rivalry with OM or even Ark., but that won't happen unless we go to 9 conf games...

 

[TXA&M07]

Darth, I think you'd agree with me on this more so than anyone.

Lets say we suck after Johnny leaves. Say were a little above .500 team. You want that on your resume?

Or in my case, say the Visor bails and hits the links for the rest of his life and yall hire some chump. You think I want another .500 team handcuffed to me every year. I dont need it, you dont need it, and its not going to do us any good at the end. Right?

Its nice now because we're both up, but crap happens. Kids graduate. Coaches leave.

 

[99gator]

99, heres how I see it, and what I believe is the consensus around here. Barn caught lightning in a paycheck a few years back and were relevant again. UGA is consistently overhyped year after year since Helen Hunt's twin took over.

Historically, I understand that it used to be must see tv, but I'm looking at the "new SEC".

Do you really see Barn catching UGA in the next 2-3 years cause I dont. Adds to my point that the SEC evolves. Programs are up for a few years, then fall off. Barn is down. Arky is down, Tenn is down. All of them were more than up within the last decade or so.

If it means that much to you, I'll say Barn-UGA is a damn good matchup if/when both teams are in the hunt. But how good is Barn going to be after getting whipped by LSU, Ole Miss, possibly Tenn, and us prior to playing UGA?

we are not talking about a 1 year deal here unless i am mistaken.

auburn and georgia have played each other for over 100 years. the record is 54-54-8. that pretty competitive if you ask me. damn what you find to be compelling. you just don't piss that away.

auburn has a winning record over tennessee and florida as well. boy, you have a bad year or two and people think you perpetually suck and will perpetually suck.

the sec has had 5 teams go undefeated in the last 20 years and auburn had 3 of them.

auburn is a legit football program and has been for a long time. i am still pissed that our rivalry with them was killed.

not to mention, you have rivalries on the list that i haven't found compelling in years. i wouldn't kill them because it wouldn't be right.

i

 

[Vol865]

and not play bama? Absolutely not and I think you would find very few UT fans who would agree with you

+1 it is our goal to beat those gumps on a consistent basis whether we have more talent or not....id rather play the best and take my chances than not play them at all because we are scared we might lose

 

[TrueOrange]

Ta hell wit dat

You guys already wanted out of arkansas to begin with; plus you'd get to be the only east school to regularly appear in GA, FL, and TX (playing the teams there each year)...that can do wonders for your recruiting if you guys can keep it at the the current level

 

[TXA&M07]

99, you're talking to a guy who is pretty savvy to killing 100 year old rivalry games. Just FYI.

 

[TXA&M07]

+1 it is our goal to beat those gumps on a consistent basis whether we have more talent or not....id rather play the best and take my chances than not play them at all because we are scared we might lose

*Cincy

 

[TXA&M07]

excuse me, I was wrong. It was NC wasnt it?

 

[Vol865]

*Cincy

Dont get what cincy has to do with what i posted

 

[Boca Vol]

Wouldn't want to give up Bama. I grew to HATE them in the 70s when they beat us 11 straight times & that hate has only increased lately. I miss the Auburn rivalry but the rivalry w/GA replaced it pretty good...I wouldn't mind giving up FL since we hardly ever played them in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s & 80s when they weren't any good & they're not really southern anyway...that's just a rivalry born out of Spurrier, divisional play & the fact that we led the charge to strip them of their 1984 SEC title that they cheated mightily to get. I'd rather renew our rivalry with OM or even Ark., but that won't happen unless we go to 9 conf games...

Would you still say that if UT had won 17 out of the last 23 and 8 in a row?

 

[TrueOrange]

http://www.mrsec.com/2013/05/lsu-florida-just-man-up-and-stop-whining

The Southeastern Conference is America’s roughest, toughest football league outside the NFL. Considering just what kind of pipeline the SEC has been for the NFL over the last 20 years, we’ll let you decide just how big the gap is between the two entities.

The conference has climbed to the top of the collegiate football heap by staying true to its traditions — more important to Southerners, it seems, than to anyone else from across the country — and by never backing down from a challenge.

While the Big XII immediately killed off the Oklahoma/Nebraska football rivalry upon formation, the SEC did its best when expanding from 10 to 12 teams and again from 12 to 14 teams to protect its oldest, fiercest rivalries. That’s the difference between good karma and bad. The Big XII eventually lost Nebraska to the Big Ten and Oklahoma has had conversations with the Pac-12 and the SEC since 2010 alone.

For those not paying attention, other leagues might occasionally cast an eye toward an SEC school, but the schools in Mike Slive’s league have no interest in taking advantage of the conference’s lack of an exit fee to bolt. There’s money, tradition, and a good esprit de corps. Why leave?

In terms of taking on challenges, many have been self-created… and wisely s0. The belief that the SEC is a war zone filled with America’s top squads has been fostered by conference leaders making things tougher and tougher and tougher on themselves.

When coaches moaned of going from six conference games to seven in a season, the league’s athletic directors ignored them. When coaches bellyached about going from seven conference games to eight per season, again, the league’s ADs paid them no mind. And when coaches shrieked in terror at the thought of adding an SEC Championship Game on top of that eight-game league slate, the leaders of the league shrugged and went ahead and booked Legion Field (and eventually the Georgia Dome) for the first weekend in December anyway.

The eight-game schedule and the championship game first came into being in 1992. In the 21 seasons since, the SEC has won 11 national championships, including in ’92 with an undefeated Alabama team that proved the fraidy cats wrong right off the bat. In the 21 seasons before going to an eight-game schedule and the championship format, the league had won all of four national titles. Prior to Bama’s crown in ’92, the last SEC national champ was Georgia way back in 1980. Things changed when the league expanded, stayed true to its past, and made things more difficult for its teams.

Stated simply: The SEC doesn’t ignore its traditions and history and it consistently sets the bar on mettle-testing.

With that in mind, it’s time for the folks in Baton Rouge and Gainesville to pipe down. Especially those complainers at LSU.

Today, the SEC’s athletic directors will meet and Tiger AD Joe Alleva will once again claim that LSU faces a disadvantage because his school is forced to play Florida each and every season as its permanent opponent. That game, of course, has become one of the best on the SEC’s schedule and television execs have paid the league pretty darn well for that schedule over the past five years.

Florida officials aren’t thrilled with the prospect of having to play an East Division schedule and LSU each year, but the volume on Gainesville groaning hasn’t reached LSU proportions yet. That’s ironic considering Florida has more to complain about.

Let’s look at the records for the Tigers and Gators over the past decade:



Year Florida’s Record LSU’s Record
2012 11-2 10-3
2011 7-6 13-1
2010 8-5 11-2
2009 13-1 9-4
2008 9-4 8-5
2007 13-1 12-2
2006 13-1 11-2
2005 9-3 11-2
2004 7-5 9-3
2003 8-5 13-0


Well, whaddya know? In five of the last 10 seasons, Florida has lost four or more football games. That’s happened just twice at LSU over the past decade. While the Gators have gone 98-33 since 2003, the Tigers have gone 107-24. If anyone’s got room to cry it would appear to be Florida.

When the SEC expanded in 1992 and implemented its eight-game conference schedule, league leaders decided to split things up based on tradition and parity, not geography. That’s why Vanderbilt is in the East and Auburn in the West despite the fact that Nashville is farther west than the Loveliest Village on the Plains.

Schedule-wise, the conference decided that the six traditional SEC powers should be separated — Alabama, Auburn and LSU on one side… Georgia, Florida and Tennessee on the other. On the schedule front, the same logic was followed when determining permanent partners.


Georgia and Auburn have the oldest rivalry in the Deep South. Both are traditional SEC powers. They were paired.

Alabama and Tennessee have — historically speaking — the most-important rivalry in the SEC. They have won more conference crowns than any other schools (UA with 23, UT with 13). They were paired.

Among the four traditional have-nots, Vanderbilt and Ole Miss have one of the SEC’s oldest rivalries. They were paired.

The league’s two new schools at the time — Arkansas and South Carolina — were paired in an effort to quickly gin up a rivalry between the schools.

That left four schools without obvious dance partners: Florida, Kentucky, LSU, and Mississippi State.

Florida and LSU were among the league’s six all-time most successful programs. Kentucky and MSU, well, weren’t.

So Florida and LSU were paired in the interest of parity as were Kentucky and Mississippi State.

Now LSU and Florida — especially LSU — want to throw all of that logic out the window and do away with permanent rivals and the league’s tradition altogether. Historically, there have always been whiners when it comes to difficulties (see: SEC coaches every time a game is added to the league’s schedule). But those doing the crying have never been allowed to have their way. The good of the league has always come first.

So what’s best for the league? LSU playing Florida every season? Or LSU seeing Kentucky or Vanderbilt or Missouri more often? Florida seeing Ole Miss and Mississippi State and Texas A&M more often?

With the league adding two more teams to the mix last season, it’s a natural time to debate the topic. But tradition and toughness have always mattered in the SEC. Those two things should still matter going forward.

Permanent rivals should be maintained for the sake of history and parity. Florida and LSU should continue to face one another every season.

And if Gator and Tiger brass feel like crying about it, they should walk to their trophy cases and look at the two BCS trophies each has won in the past decade. For all their gnashing of teeth over unfair schedules, those schools seem to have done pretty darn well by ‘em.

 

[TXA&M07]

It was debated as to what happened with the Tenn/NC match up that was cancelled not too long ago. Folks were not happy. Speculation grew. Its all in the archives.

 

[Vol865]

It was debated as to what happened with the Tenn/NC match up that was cancelled not too long ago. Folks were not happy. Speculation grew. Its all in the archives.

Ahh.....UNC game.....i wasnt happy about that either....i wanted our rematch after getting screwed out of the first game

 

[TXA&M07]

yeah.