Cumulative Recruiting Rankings

#1
rexvol

rexvol

The Minister of Defense
Joined
Apr 29, 2006
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#1
Year/ Natl Champ/ 4yr Recruiting Rank / Recruiting Yrs
2003 LSU 1st 02-03
2004 USC 1st 02-04
2005 Texas 8th 02-05
2006 UF 4th 03-06
2007 LSU 4th 04-07
2008 UF 2nd 05-08
 
#3
#3
sooo what you're getting at here is... talent DOES matter???
haha, that's not a surprising list, but it is interesting. good post.
 
#7
#7
g8terh8ter_eric said:
They may have merit, but it can be argued that it matters more about coaching. You can look at the Utah's and Cincinnati's of the college football world for that argument.
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Cincinnati's and the Utah's don't play in the SEC. They may pull an upset every once in awhile. But make no mistake they are average to below average compared to the rest of this conference.

Talent wins games. Yes, Coaching does matter as well. But Talent makes great coaches.
 
#8
#8
g8terh8ter_eric said:
They may have merit, but it can be argued that it matters more about coaching. You can look at the Utah's and Cincinnati's of the college football world for that argument.
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I must have missed their National Championships
 
#10
#10
It is probably more realistic to look at the averages of their recruiting classes 5 years prior to the year they won the championship. I would imagine that in the SEC it would be impossible to win an NC with an average of 10 or higher. Just a hunch.
 
#11
#11
g8terh8ter_eric said:
They may have merit, but it can be argued that it matters more about coaching. You can look at the Utah's and Cincinnati's of the college football world for that argument.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with that. While you may see a Utah run the table through their regular season and knock off an Alabama in a bowl game, that in itself is not proof that coaching > talent.

I would argue that a lower tier team like Utah can patch together a talented group of starters because of scholarship limits, an increase in available talent, etc....This is fine for a bowl game where players have been resting for weeks. The place where top recruiting classes really show their true value, though, is in depth. Give that same Utah team an SEC schedule, and once a couple of their starters start getting dinged up/worn down from not having competant backups, they'll start to fall off pretty quickly.

Basically, good coaching will put you ahead against similar or even slightly better talent, but play a whole season against superior talent and you will only make it so far.
 
#12
#12
So I can expect to enjoy watching my Ags in the Big12 CG in 2010-2011 then?
 
#13
#13
jjay2518 said:
I have to disagree with that. While you may see a Utah run the table through their regular season and knock off an Alabama in a bowl game, that in itself is not proof that coaching > talent.

I would argue that a lower tier team like Utah can patch together a talented group of starters because of scholarship limits, an increase in available talent, etc....This is fine for a bowl game where players have been resting for weeks. The place where top recruiting classes really show their true value, though, is in depth. Give that same Utah team an SEC schedule, and once a couple of their starters start getting dinged up/worn down from not having competant backups, they'll start to fall off pretty quickly.

Basically, good coaching will put you ahead against similar or even slightly better talent, but play a whole season against superior talent and you will only make it so far.
Click to expand...

That victory had more to do with an amped up utah vs a completely disinterested bama team sans their best player
 
#14
#14
rexvol said:
That victory had more to do with an amped up utah vs a completely disinterested bama team sans their best player
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I would definitely agree that played a big part. I was speaking more in generalities.
 
#15
#15
Lexvol said:
It is probably more realistic to look at the averages of their recruiting classes 5 years prior to the year they won the championship. I would imagine that in the SEC it would be impossible to win an NC with an average of 10 or higher. Just a hunch.
Click to expand...

Your hunch is right.
 
#16
#16
VOL61 said:
Cincinnati's and the Utah's don't play in the SEC. They may pull an upset every once in awhile. But make no mistake they are average to below average compared to the rest of this conference.

Talent wins games. Yes, Coaching does matter as well. But Talent makes great coaches.
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If that's the case, what happened to Fulmer?? You can only ride that invisible wave for so long before you come crashing down because it's not there.
 
#17
#17
So, Utah beats a team that played for the SECC and it's not relevant. Cincinnati plays in a BCS bowl and it's not relevant?? Guys, talent only gets you so far and then coaching has to get you the rest of the way. Observe our issues for the past 5-7 years and you'll see my point very clearly.
 
#18
#18
What do the coaches thought of as the top coaches in college football have in common? Top recruiting classes. Not one year on and one year off like Fulmer. Top classes every year.
 
#19
#19
Sabanocchio said:
What do the coaches thought of as the top coaches in college football have in common? Top recruiting classes. Not one year on and one year off like Fulmer. Top classes every year.
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No doubt, but they coach those players to success from Day 1 when they get on campus. Coaching up 5*s is the same thing as coaching up 3*s, you just have to be a great coach to get the most out of your talent. Hopefully, with our new staff they understand the importance of that very fact.
 
#20
#20
g8terh8ter_eric said:
No doubt, but they coach those players to success from Day 1 when they get on campus. Coaching up 5*s is the same thing as coaching up 3*s, you just have to be a great coach to get the most out of your talent. Hopefully, with our new staff they understand the importance of that very fact.
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You do, but successful recruiting can disguise lackluster coaching often times for as long as it lasts. Larry Coker wasn't exposed until his players ran out. Les Miles will continue to do well as long as LSU is putting together top 5 recruiting classes. These college position coaches these days are very often hired first for their ability to recruit and secondly for their coaching ability. There are plenty of position coaches around that aren't very good at coaching their positions. Recruiting top players is paramount to consistent success at the college level.

You keep talking about Utah beating Bama and Cincinatti winning the Big East, well guess why that's such a story? Because it doesn't happen very often. And we are talking about one game and one successful season. Duplicating that feat will be nearly impossible. If Utah played Bama 10 times, you actually think they win the majority of those battles?

The Big East is weak as hell anyway. And Brian Kelly is a good coach, but if he was really such a great coach, he would have gotten a much better job this past year. One year doesn't determine how good of a coach you are. Same deal with Mike Leach. The trick is doing it consistently. A lot of times you get really lucky with average recruits that turn into stud players. See Crabtree and Harrell. You cannot stake your career on that though. Not at the level of football we're talking about. Recruiting trumps coaching at this level time and time again.

Appalachian state beat Michigan once too. Do you know where that coach is now? Still coaching Appalachian State. Your obsession with the exception to the rule is your downfall in many, many discussions.
 
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#21
#21
Sabanocchio said:
You do, but successful recruiting can disguise lackluster coaching often times for as long as it lasts. Larry Coker wasn't exposed until his players ran out. Les Miles will continue to do well as long as LSU is putting together top 5 recruiting classes. These college position coaches these days are very often hired first for their ability to recruit and secondly for their coaching ability. There are plenty of position coaches around that aren't very good at coaching their positions. Recruiting top players is paramount to consistent success at the college level.

You keep talking about Utah beating Bama and Cincinatti winning the Big East, well guess why that's such a story? Because it doesn't happen very often. And we are talking about one game and one successful season. Duplicating that feat will be nearly impossible. If Utah played Bama 10 times, you actually think they win the majority of those battles?

The Big East is weak as hell anyway. And Brian Kelly is a good coach, but if he was really such a great coach, he would have gotten a much better job this past year. One year doesn't determine how good of a coach you are. Same deal with Mike Leach. The trick is doing it consistently. A lot of times you get really lucky with average recruits that turn into stud players. See Crabtree and Harrell. You cannot stake your career on that though. Not at the level of football we're talking about. Recruiting trumps coaching at this level time and time again.

Appalachian state beat Michigan once too. Do you know where that coach is now? Still coaching Appalachian State. Your obsession with the exception to the rule is your downfall in many, many discussions.
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If the bold statement is true, and you did prove it somewhat in the next sentences, then Notre Dame should be going gangbusters right now with who they have gotten since 2006.

I understand your whole argument, but look at what Frank Beamer has done at Va. Tech with all those 3*s he has gotten and that should end the argument. He's not been in the Top 25 in recruiting since 2006 and he's won back to back ACC Championships AND had some of the toughest defenses in the country.

Coaching trumps recruiting, but great coaching leads to great recruiting 99% of the time.
 
#22
#22
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, Utah beats a team that played for the SECC and it's not relevant. Cincinnati plays in a BCS bowl and it's not relevant?? Guys, talent only gets you so far and then coaching has to get you the rest of the way. Observe our issues for the past 5-7 years and you'll see my point very clearly.
Click to expand...

I agree with you to some degree. A man with a revolver could shoot and kill another with an assault rifle. It's possible. But it would be a lot more even of a fight if the first man upgraded his weapon.

That being said, I hope the Kiffins and friends are sharp shooters.
 
#23
#23
The exception to the rule is what makes college football Sab. If you didn't have parity, things would get VERY boring and most wouldn't be interesting. Look at our situation, it took us losing 7 games 2 out of 4 seasons before we got a coaching staff that understands how to win in recruiting and hopefully on the football field. Being the exception to the rule is what gets you noticed as well.
 
#24
#24
IPorange said:
I agree with you to some degree. A man with a revolver could shoot and kill another with an assault rifle. It's possible. But it would be a lot more even of a fight if the first man upgraded his weapon.

That being said, I hope the Kiffins and friends are sharp shooters.
Click to expand...

I agree.
 
#25
#25
g8terh8ter_eric said:
The exception to the rule is what makes college football Sab. If you didn't have parity, things would get VERY boring and most wouldn't be interesting. Look at our situation, it took us losing 7 games 2 out of 4 seasons before we got a coaching staff that understands how to win in recruiting and hopefully on the football field. Being the exception to the rule is what gets you noticed as well.
Click to expand...
There really isn't a lot of parity in college football. I don't know what you're getting at there. You're missing the point on the exception to the rule. It doesn't happen very often. When it does, yeah, it's interesting to talk about, but when you start basing arguments on what happens on rare occasions rather than the norm, then you typically end up on the losing end.
 
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