Curious about ZZ minutes.

[pimo1]

By virtue of his height alone, ZZ is not the prototypical PG.

ZZ brings a lot in terms of energy, defense, efficiency, etc. but we need somebody who can put 2 on the ball running offense. ZZ is not much of a scoring threat so his ability to collapse and break the D is not great. He plays 32 mpg and didn't even make two 2p baskets at just 47%. Teams want him to drive to the basket in crunch time.

I would love to have somebody like Mike Conley just once. When all else failed, he could just go to the basket and get a layup, a dish, or FT's. We need that so badly.

huh? what kinda prototype are you looking at? ZZ is a point god type of point guard..he is an Isiah Thomas/Kevin Johnson hybrid you don't get more PG than that. I think even in todays NBA in the right system he fits in fine.

I think a lot of people get things mixed up.. there are a lot of limited small guys that don't translate to the pro game or college game as PG's. But ZZ has no huge weaknesses to his game. He is a good shooter even by today's standards. A good ball handler. Can create shots for himself and others. His physical limitations are covered by his energy level and the fact this is a team sport. Will he be a lottery pick? Nope but he will make a roster and be a player at the next level. His height will be held against him but he will overcome that and be a bargain for someone.

 

[n_huffhines]

huh? what kinda prototype are you looking at? ZZ is a point god type of point guard..he is an Isiah Thomas/Kevin Johnson hybrid you don't get more PG than that. I think even in todays NBA in the right system he fits in fine.

I think a lot of people get things mixed up.. there are a lot of limited small guys that don't translate to the pro game or college game as PG's. But ZZ has no huge weaknesses to his game. He is a good shooter even by today's standards. A good ball handler. Can create shots for himself and others. His physical limitations are covered by his energy level and the fact this is a team sport. Will he be a lottery pick? Nope but he will make a roster and be a player at the next level. His height will be held against him but he will overcome that and be a bargain for someone.

I'm not talking about his prospects as a pro. I'm not calling out a weakness. Saying he doesn't command a double team is not a weakness. It's just a limitation. The large majority of players cannot command a double team. Our lives would be a lot easier if we had a 2 or combo guard to do that. Z would be good off ball and as a secondary ballhandler in crunch time, saving more energy for point of attack defense.

"Point god" is wild to say. I wouldn't even classify Zeke or KJ as a point god type. Those guys never shot 3's. 2/3 of ZZ's shots are from 3p. Those dudes went to the basket all the time and ZZ does not, so IDK how you can say they're the same. Chris Paul is THE point god because he's not just a QB, he's Peyton Manning. He's directing and micro-managing everything, and beating you by being smarter. Zeke was a guy who played more off instinct and KJ just was nowhere near CP3's level.

 

[Vol4gzus]

It means the D sends a double team. If you have a guy who commands the double, can process where it's coming from, and punish them for sending it, it's the greatest hack you can possibly have for good offense. There is always a good shot out there if your lead ballhandler is collapsing the D on command.

Knecht can collapse the D, he's just not great at the other 2 parts.

Zeigler is good at the other 2 parts, but he's not a scoring threat who can really get to parts 2 and 3.

Oh you mean like his drive and lob for backdoor when they collapsed on him?

 

[Namorto1]

I’m curious if Lanier is actually the backup PG, people have glossed over it but he played a lot of PG at UNF. If he’s indeed a capable PG then sliding Gainey back to a full time 2 and letting him focus there might bring back some confidence in his stroke.

Right, probably would be good for Lanier's future draft prospects as well if he can manage some backup PG duties. He will be a better facilitator than people think.

 

[Dougie_D]

He shot poorly from the FT line most of the year, so not attributing it to that, again that’s a lazy take imo. Look at Sears and Davis, it’s common place in CBB for guys to be averaging 35+mpg and Zeigler wasn’t even doing that. I’m not saying let’s not have a backup option, I think we do in Lanier/Gainey/Boswell, I’m just saying you play your best players the most minutes they can effectively handle.

BTO, who would you rather have playing PG when we let ZZ rest? Honestly I’m not too high on Gainey playing that part. Lanier seems to have experience over Bishop but who knows?? Just wondering what you see as far as ball handlers

 

[Namorto1]

By virtue of his height alone, ZZ is not the prototypical PG.

ZZ brings a lot in terms of energy, defense, efficiency, etc. but we need somebody who can put 2 on the ball running offense. ZZ is not much of a scoring threat so his ability to collapse and break the D is not great. He plays 32 mpg and didn't even make two 2p baskets at just 47%. Teams want him to drive to the basket in crunch time.

I would love to have somebody like Mike Conley just once. When all else failed, he could just go to the basket and get a layup, a dish, or FT's. We need that so badly.

Size prevents Zeigler from finishing at the rim, but if he improves that floater efficiency it's over because he can get into the lane whenever he wants. One of the best PG's UT has ever head however we define it.

 

[pimo1]

I'm not talking about his prospects as a pro. I'm not calling out a weakness. Saying he doesn't command a double team is not a weakness. It's just a limitation. The large majority of players cannot command a double team. Our lives would be a lot easier if we had a 2 or combo guard to do that. Z would be good off ball and as a secondary ballhandler in crunch time, saving more energy for point of attack defense.

"Point god" is wild to say. I wouldn't even classify Zeke or KJ as a point god type. Those guys never shot 3's. 2/3 of ZZ's shots are from 3p. Those dudes went to the basket all the time and ZZ does not, so IDK how you can say they're the same. Chris Paul is THE point god because he's not just a QB, he's Peyton Manning. He's directing and micro-managing everything, and beating you by being smarter. Zeke was a guy who played more off instinct and KJ just was nowhere near CP3's level.

the term point god was coined long before point guards were chucking threes in fact most point gods were not huge scorers at all that's the point. point god if you put the word into a singular guy would be Chris Paul a pure point guard. A points role, especially in college is not to draw a double team it to set his teammates up for success and ZZ does that very well. Look at this offense anytime it has not had him the last 2 years for evidence.

At no point in his career here has ZZ been a point of weakness on this team period. When was there a game where we lost and came out thinking dang if ZZ was a bit bigger or if someone else could bring the ball up the court instead of him... never happened or will happen. We have though wow could we find someone to give him a breather. Yes, the team would be better if we had another guy that could be a true point at times.... the same is true for EVERYTEAM that only has one true point guard no matter his size. If there is a bad matchup for ZZ we have others to switch.. but how often does that happen? When Has ZZ ever been a defensive liability? When has he been a liability running the offense?

ZZ is the one sure thing on this team. Period.

 

[The Dog]

Isiah Thomas was no doubt, a Point God. When he retired he was 3rd all-time in assists after only 13 seasons. Plus, he has back to back NBA Championships and a NCAA Championship at the Indiana Hoosiers.

 

[n_huffhines]

Guys, CP3 is literally "Point God." There is no other. The phrase was coined for him.

 

[vols 30]

Isiah Thomas was no doubt, a Point God. When he retired he was 3rd all-time in assists after only 13 seasons. Plus, he has back to back NBA Championships and a NCAA Championship at the Indiana Hoosiers.

Just don't invite him and Michael Jordan to the same party

 

[n_huffhines]

Isiah Thomas was no doubt, a Point God. When he retired he was 3rd all-time in assists after only 13 seasons. Plus, he has back to back NBA Championships and a NCAA Championship at the Indiana Hoosiers.

13 seasons was a long time back then.

He was a really good setup guy, especially early in his career and later on didn't do quite as much of that.

 

[Vol4gzus]

Yeah the concerts are shorter. Billy Gibbons and Frank Beard don't play as many minutes as before.....

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

I still believe the adage that there are two trees of prototypical point guards: The Bob Cousy tree, and the Oscar Robertson tree. Both are valid, but I prefer a guard who works relentlessly to improve the odds of one of the other four guys scoring, and wears down the other teams guards on defense. They are always a threat to score, but it’s their passes that break the defense. Cousy was a master, as were Stockton, Nash and Tony Parker. When the top half of the defense fears a good point guard they can never quite catch up. It’s a joy to watch. We’ll all look back at these four years as one of the best point guard eras in Vol history. We should enjoy it because we only have one year left. If you don’t appreciate ZZ as a true great, a prototype, and the guy you want in the game, you’re missing it.

 

[TrippieRedd]

Kind of hard to compare ZZ to anyone, not many like him.

The player I always come back to is Melvin Goins. ZZ being the better shooter and passer.

Defense is about the same. Both averaged 1.7 spg.

 

[onfocusgovols]

Last season it felt like ZZ played every minute every game. Was that because Gainey and Freddie aren’t true point guards? I was assuming that Boswell was a combo guard, but will he be a better point guard option than Gainey? Or will Chaz get playing time at the 1 ?
Or are we gonna see ZZ for another 38-40 minute game.

Zakai Zeigler played 31.6 minutes per game in 36 total games played for him as a junior... Freddie is great but his early injury set him back a little along with the defensive demands for mins here, and no Gainey is not a true PG... Not arguing, just a fact that ZZ didn't get and won't get 38-40 minutes game.
Most likely it's a team effort with Lanier, Mashack & Gainey all getting random PG run here and there...
Doubt a freshman will come into an 8-9 man regular rotation with the team we have and our depth so I don't think anyone expects Boswell to get meaningful backup PG minutes year 1.
Lanier and his skill set will make fans worry less... TN is in a good place with our priority rotational pieces.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Kind of hard to compare ZZ to anyone, not many like him.

The player I always come back to is Melvin Goins. ZZ being the better shooter and passer.

Defense is about the same. Both averaged 1.7 spg.

I think steals are the same due to Pearl’s pressing/trapping style, not elite on ball defense. I didn’t look but did Goins ever even make All Defense team, nevermind defensive POY.

 

[TrippieRedd]

I think steals are the same due to Pearl’s pressing/trapping style, not elite on ball defense. I didn’t look but did Goins ever even make All Defense team, nevermind defensive POY.

He led the SEC in steals, but that was it.

Liggins was the only guard that year to make the SEC Defensive Team. IIRC

Also, Melvin averaged 1.7spg at Ball State as well.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

He led the SEC in steals, but that was it.

Liggins was the only guard that year to make the SEC Defensive Team. IIRC

Goins had 57 steals his senior year and 32 his junior year, Zeigler (even as a freshman) has never had less than 59. Goins was a fine player, but to say their defense was the same is wildly inaccurate imo. Again you’re talking about conference defender of the year and a guy named to a national defensive finalist award list, Goins never even sniffed a conference defensive mention.

 

[TrippieRedd]

Goins had 57 steals his senior year and 32 his junior year, Zeigler (even as a freshman) has never had less than 59. Goins was a fine player, but to say their defense was the same is wildly inaccurate imo. Again you’re talking about conference defender of the year and a guy named to a national defensive finalist award list, Goins never even sniffed a conference defensive mention.

Fair.

Melvin did only average 18mpg his junior year. Stil had 32 total steals, if he would’ve averaged 27.2mpg like his SR year (we love per 40 mins around here), his numbers would’ve been around the 50s. He had 50 something at Ball State averaging 27mpg.

I stand by the comparison. I get he didn’t make the SEC Defensive team, but you should go see some of the players that didn’t make it lol

Some of the dudes that year were averaging 3bpg, or averaging like 2.5spg and 1.5bpg. Was nuts.

I just think they kind of play similar just watching film. Quick/fast smaller guards…saw a ton of similarities athleticism wise.
ZZ >>>>>>>> Goins, just saying they remind me of one another .

 

[Vol4gzus]

Yeah the concerts are shorter. Billy Gibbons and Frank Beard don't play as many minutes as before.....

Evidently no one gets this...or possibly cares to...yes a serious thread can't have this...point (g)od insert is taking away from thread concerning his minutes...nice,but not UT bball. Like going to an advertised bbq and they bring a pot of soup.

 

[Volfan1000]

Last season it felt like ZZ played every minute every game. Was that because Gainey and Freddie aren’t true point guards? I was assuming that Boswell was a combo guard, but will he be a better point guard option than Gainey? Or will Chaz get playing time at the 1 ?
Or are we gonna see ZZ for another 38-40 minute game.

I think that Barnes dips into the portal to get an experienced point guard option for the 2025 season when Seigler graduates.

 

[pimo1]

I think that Barnes dips into the portal to get an experienced point guard option for the 2025 season when Seigler graduates.

or he can bring one in with our open spot if it looks like we don't have clear workable depth there this year like he did with Vescovi and IIRC Dillone someone correct me if I'm wrong on Dillone but I remember him being a late add or reclass? But it seems like most years we bring in a late addition

 

[FeelVol]

I think unfortunately fans are worried because we experienced this in real time 2 years ago when he tore his ACL and there was no real backup.

Just because of the injury that concern will linger. Obviously ZZ played huge minutes last year especially at end. I do think developing someone this summer to be reliable backup to give him breathers during games is important. In the tournament he was missing a lot of FTs and shots that maybe could have been related to fatigue.

Who wouldn’t be fatigued at the end of games playing our style of defense.I thought both ZZ and Knecht looked fatigued late against Purdue.

 

[onfocusgovols]

or he can bring one in with our open spot if it looks like we don't have clear workable depth there this year like he did with Vescovi and IIRC Dillone someone correct me if I'm wrong on Dillone but I remember him being a late add or reclass? But it seems like most years we bring in a late addition

Yeah Freddie FAD Dilione was a class of 2023 recruit and committed to us as a 2023 recruit... Then he was in a highly committed league in OTE after his successful high school play with Word of God HS in North Carolina... He was schooling players like Rob Dillingham who is now going to be a top 10 NBA pick while in OTE... So after his incredible time at Overtime Elite (OTE) he decided to come halfway through the season a year early just to redshirt, get acclimated to the demands of being a student-athlete, sit and learn, get his body ready and the like... So he ended up playing his true freshman year along with the guys he committed to TN originally with in Cam Carr, JP Estrella, Cade Phillips & Freddie Dilione... He's a baller though for sure and will be successful going forward, he's not a true PG... in his own words he puts it this way to me "I'm a big guard"

 

[pimo1]

Yeah Freddie FAD Dilione was a class of 2023 recruit and committed to us as a 2023 recruit... Then he was in a highly committed league in OTE after his successful high school play with Word of God HS in North Carolina... He was schooling players like Rob Dillingham who is now going to be a top 10 NBA pick while in OTE... So after his incredible time at Overtime Elite (OTE) he decided to come halfway through the season a year early just to redshirt, get acclimated to the demands of being a student-athlete, sit and learn, get his body ready and the like... So he ended up playing his true freshman year along with the guys he committed to TN originally with in Cam Carr, JP Estrella, Cade Phillips & Freddie Dilione... He's a baller though for sure and will be successful going forward, he's not a true PG... in his own words he puts it this way to me "I'm a big guard"

thanks, I thought that was the case. But yeah it seems a trend to save one spot and use it for a late addition based on need. Dillone being we knew we needed a PG the next year and we wanted to get him here early to get him up to speed... but I guess he didn't want the PG role? Who knows. I know its been long said the PG in Barnes system has a lot of responsibility and gets ridden hard since his texas days.