Days like today make Obama more likely

#26
#26
UT IE 95 said:
I agree, spending money means it must come from somewhere. But I don't believe JSM3 is proposing a substantially lower federal budget than BHO?

I am really looking forward to the town hall meetings. I think my candidate will come from those discussions.
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Maybe not and why I said I don't think anyone paints him as conservative.
 
#27
#27
allvol123 said:
Maybe not and why I said I don't think anyone paints him as conservative.
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Fair enough. But crazy left liberals point to JSM3 as the evil conservative - that's the message we'll get up until November. When in fact the impact on our scociety may not be that different between the two candidates when you look into thier platforms and plans.
 
#28
#28
UT IE 95 said:
I agree, spending money means it must come from somewhere. But I don't believe JSM3 is proposing a substantially lower federal budget than BHO?

I am really looking forward to the town hall meetings. I think my candidate will come from those discussions.
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The healthcare budget is a trick bag. If approved it will kill all of us. He has proposed a tax increase that will murder those at $200K plus, but will be whittled to not be as onerous on those and will pound everyone at about 60 and up. That's somewhat speculation, but most likely.
 
#29
#29
UT IE 95 said:
Isn't the ceiling for the upper middle at 200K household? I thought that group was under the BHO threshold.

And I will also explain that since the candidates for each party are now decided, it's time to learn the nuts and bolts of each. What I've found out so far (and frankly new it already) is that BHO isn't as liberal as portrayed and JSM3 isn't as conservative as portrayed.
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Who in the world said that at this point?

I predict that his campaign will have him slide considerably right of where he has been to date, but that's a farce. He's the most liberal candidate I've ever even heard of and it's not really even close.
 
#30
#30
BigPapaVol said:
The healthcare budget is a trick bag. If approved it will kill all of us. He has proposed a tax increase that will murder those at $200K plus, but will be whittled to not be as onerous on those and will pound everyone at about 60 and up. That's somewhat speculation, but most likely.
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I'm beginning to think the healthcare solution is a white whale. How many presidents have run on a platform with a solution only to leave having done nothing of substance?
 
#31
#31
UT IE 95 said:
I'm beginning to think the healthcare solution is a white whale. How many presidents have run on a platform with a solution only to leave having done nothing of substance?
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but running on something as socialist and ambitious as this has normally meant near immediate death to a candidacy, but the Bush years have been so rough that it is somehow now viable.

The boldness with which it has been put out there, I have to assume something, if not the full blown plan, will be enacted. It's will be an incremental step to the entire plan, which, once started, is inevitable.
 
#32
#32
And the Dems keep only the Big Picture in mind. They are perfectly happy w/ incrementalism.
 
#33
#33
I am shocked that any decent american would even think about voting for Obama. What is wrong with voters anymore are they so furious with bush and his administration that they dont care who they put in the white house so as long as it aint a republican. If thats the case why not go independent or not vote at all. Because i gurantee it if Obama gets in this country will far apart and it will be nothing like u have never seen.
 
#34
#34
bleedingorange said:
I am shocked that any decent american would even think about voting for Obama. What is wrong with voters anymore are they so furious with bush and his administration that they dont care who they put in the white house so as long as it aint a republican. If thats the case why not go independent or not vote at all. Because i gurantee it if Obama gets in this country will far apart and it will be nothing like u have never seen.
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What guarantee are you providing?

As an undecided voter, feel free to be a little specific in what you mean about saying "if Obama gets in this country will far apart and it will be nothing like u have never seen".
 
#35
#35
BigPapaVol said:
but running on something as socialist and ambitious as this has normally meant near immediate death to a candidacy, but the Bush years have been so rough that it is somehow now viable.

The boldness with which it has been put out there, I have to assume something, if not the full blown plan, will be enacted. It's will be an incremental step to the entire plan, which, once started, is inevitable.
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We are on the precipice of the largest generation in American history needing substantial and long term health care that neither as individuals nor a country we are prepared. Something will be done with health care because the alternative is doing nothing which will cause a social impact that I can't even imagine.
 
#36
#36
UT IE 95 said:
What guarantee are you providing?

As an undecided voter, feel free to be a little specific in what you mean about saying "if Obama gets in this country will far apart and it will be nothing like u have never seen".
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For one inexperience as a leader and second his ideas for this country are a joke
 
#37
#37
People fail to realize two things about socialized medicine in this country. First, it is inevitable. Second, it has already begun.

Medicare and Medicaid are being expanded to include broader ranges of people. Right now, they cover the highest risk, lowest income people we have in seniors, the unemployed, and the working poor. We all pay taxes for it already to cover them.

Eventually, people will come to believe (rightly or wrongly) that the best way to reduce the per person cost of Medicare, for example, is to broaden its coverage to include healthy working people. On a per capita basis, they will be much cheaper to include.

You may not like it. But no one can derail that train.
 
#38
#38
UHC is junk LG. just ask the other countries that use this crap. And btw., how much do you think this is going to cost?
 
#39
#39
lawgator1 said:
People fail to realize two things about socialized medicine in this country. First, it is inevitable. Second, it has already begun.

Medicare and Medicaid are being expanded to include broader ranges of people. Right now, they cover the highest risk, lowest income people we have in seniors, the unemployed, and the working poor. We all pay taxes for it already to cover them.

Eventually, people will come to believe (rightly or wrongly) that the best way to reduce the per person cost of Medicare, for example, is to broaden its coverage to include healthy working people. On a per capita basis, they will be much cheaper to include.

You may not like it. But no one can derail that train.
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So u like being told what doctor u have to see
 
#40
#40
myrobbins7 said:
UHC is junk LG. just ask the other countries that use this crap. And btw., how much do you think this is going to cost?
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bleedingorange said:
So u like being told what doctor u have to see
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First, I didn't say it was good or bad. I said its inevitable. You can debate it all you want, its going to happen.

Second, bleeding, I am already given a list of doctors in network I can choose from. Its just a question of degree and who is doing the telling.
 
#41
#41
lawgator1 said:
First, I didn't say it was good or bad. I said its inevitable. You can debate it all you want, its going to happen.

Second, bleeding, I am already given a list of doctors in network I can choose from. Its just a question of degree and who is doing the telling.
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What i am asking lawgator is if UHC happens will I still be able to see my family doctor that i have seen for over 15 years or will the government tell me who i have to see.
 
#42
#42
bleedingorange said:
For one inexperience as a leader and second his ideas for this country are a joke
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You are certainly entitled your opinion, but looking at BHO's bio, it is not lacking in demonstrated leadership. In fact, both he and his opposition are in the same position - US Senators.

On your second point, I'd like for you to list a few of his ideas you consider a joke. There may be some that I have not been informed of.
 
#43
#43
UT IE 95 said:
You are certainly entitled your opinion, but looking at BHO's bio, it is not lacking in demonstrated leadership. In fact, both he and his opposition are in the same position - US Senators.

On your second point, I'd like for you to list a few of his ideas you consider a joke. There may be some that I have not been informed of.
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Tell me how long he has been a US Senator compared to his opposition and that will answer that question. And for u to think his policies are the answer for America well thats your opinion even though i might not agree with them u have that right.
 
#44
#44
lawgator1 said:
People fail to realize two things about socialized medicine in this country. First, it is inevitable. Second, it has already begun.

Medicare and Medicaid are being expanded to include broader ranges of people. Right now, they cover the highest risk, lowest income people we have in seniors, the unemployed, and the working poor. We all pay taxes for it already to cover them.

Eventually, people will come to believe (rightly or wrongly) that the best way to reduce the per person cost of Medicare, for example, is to broaden its coverage to include healthy working people. On a per capita basis, they will be much cheaper to include.

You may not like it. But no one can derail that train.
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what a ridiculous post. If your silly point about the feds paying for the poorest and unemployed, then why one earth do we need a new system? To cover the people already covered and paying for it? How retarded is that? We're going to make it less efficient than it is today by injecting the gov't into a system for only the people it is already working for.

It is never inevitable for us to become more socialized. The backlash against the social medicine programs I know would take about two years. At that point it would be over. Beyond that, the frickin' loss of the best and brightest from medicine that would inevitably follow would mean that attorneys with limited reasoning capacity could expect to have their positions usurped by would be physicians.
 
#45
#45
UT IE 95 said:
You are certainly entitled your opinion, but looking at BHO's bio, it is not lacking in demonstrated leadership. In fact, both he and his opposition are in the same position - US Senators.
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BHo has shown zero senatorial leadership because he's in his first term, chairs nothing and rarely votes.

He has shown the ability to campaign, make promises, garner votes and surround himself with shady people. Aside from that, I've seen nothing that shouts, or even whispers, leadership.
 
#46
#46
you should also look into how BHO won his first political office. basically, he used attorneys to find problems with the petitions of three competitors, had their names removed from the ballot and he ran unopposed.

Obama has zero leadership credentials. What he is is a politician on par with Bill Clinton.
 
#47
#47
BigPapaVol said:
BHo has shown zero senatorial leadership because he's in his first term, chairs nothing and rarely votes.

He has shown the ability to campaign, make promises, garner votes and surround himself with shady people. Aside from that, I've seen nothing that shouts, or even whispers, leadership.
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Amen to that Obama is the king of bs:salute:
 
#48
#48
I wonder why he chose this guy to be part of his VP "committee".

NM I'll just copy and post the link doesn't work...

On his first day as the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, Barack Obama made his first clear, serious mistake: He named Eric Holder as one of three people charged with vice-presidential vetting.

As deputy attorney general, Holder was the key person who made the pardon of Marc Rich possible in the final hours of the Clinton presidency. Now, Obama will be stuck in the Marc Rich mess.


If ever there was a person who did not deserve a presidential pardon, it’s Marc Rich, the fugitive billionaire who renounced his US citizenship and moved to Switzerland to avoid prosecution for racketeering, wire fraud, 51 counts of tax fraud, evading $48 million in taxes, and engaging in illegal trades with Iran in violation of the US embargo following the 1979-80 hostage crisis.

Seventeen years later, Rich wanted a pardon, and he retained Jack Quinn, former counsel to the president, to lobby his old boss.

It was Holder who had originally recommended Quinn to one of Rich’s advisers, although he claims that he did not know the identity of the client.

And he gave substantive advice to Quinn along the way. According to Quinn’s notes that were produced to Congress, Holder told Quinn to take the pardon application “straight to the White House” because “the timing is good.”

And once the pardon was granted, Holder sent his congratulations to Quinn.

In 2002, a congressional committee reported that Holder was a “willing participant in the plan to keep the Justice Department from knowing about and opposing” the Rich pardon.

It is one thing to reach back to Obama’s pastor to raise doubts about his values. But it is quite another to scrutinize the record of his first appointee.

It couldn’t be a bigger mistake
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.

From dickmorris.com
 
#49
#49
<p>
BigPapaVol said:
what a ridiculous post. If your silly point about the feds paying for the poorest and unemployed, then why one earth do we need a new system? To cover the people already covered and paying for it? How retarded is that? We're going to make it less efficient than it is today by injecting the gov't into a system for only the people it is already working for.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>It is never inevitable for us to become more socialized. The backlash against the social medicine programs I know would take about two years. At that point it would be over. Beyond that, the frickin' loss of the best and brightest from medicine that would inevitably follow would mean that attorneys with limited reasoning capacity could expect to have their positions usurped by would be physicians.
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</




You misunderstood. I am not advocating socialized medicine. I'm saying its coming, like it or not.

I mean, what do you consider Medicare? They automatically cover a huge portion of the population. It is paid for by taxes. They set reimbursement rules. Is that not socialized medicine?

Meanwhile, the Medicaid program is expanded evry few years to include a new age group, a new set of economic layers of the country, etc. At some point, in the not too distant future, a good third or so of the country will be covered by the government. From there, or thereabouts, the argument that we might as well do it for all and pay taxes rather than premiums, is going to be made.

It won't happen all at once. But it is inevitable. Good or bad.
 
#50
#50
we'll have to disagree completely about the "sound of inevitability." I think the docs will eventually force the change by more and more of them refusing medicare / medicaid. That's inevitable.
 
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