Dear Toxic Tennessee fans—go play in traffic and have a terrible Christmas—we are lucky in spite of you.

[calban]

Your opinion is probably awful. There is objective truth. And if you want Rick Barnes gone—you’re objectively an idiot and deserving of people like me hating on you for being dumb.

Personal attacks. This is what the Lillies do when they don't really have anything to say except, 'Ban the Negavols.' What a boring board this would be. While we're at it let's repeal the first amendment. Barnes will be gone when he decides to retire and this admin will go back to their predictable ways of hiring another bargain basement. For now we accept a Great coach for what he is, a Program Builder, who has done just that in building a respectable program. Leave the dissenters alone. Every now and then their complaints yield some healthy discussions.

 

[volbound1700]

Alum here. So I guess if I said that I'm less than pleased with Barnes coaching (not wanting him fired, however) and blaming officiating is a cop-out in a game like last night, does that pass your litmus test since I'm an alum? Or because I have a contrary opinion to you it's a disqualifier? Officiating IS terrible - but it doesn't tell the full story or paint the picture of how our system works - we are going to (most times) have less chances at the stripe because we DONT attack the basket and we fade away on most of our midrange and distance jumpers.

Why come in here acting like you are the arbiter of being a Vol because you are an alum? Who cares? There are Vol fans from all walks of life, pulling the alum card is just silly.

Dialogue is healthy, but this constant bickering and walling off different opinions (on all sides of this argument, to be clear) is just another symptom of a societal issue. We can't debate, exchange ideas, or otherwise share knowledge and ideas without it turning into an US versus THEM, zero-sum affair. And telling people to "go play in traffic" and "have a terrible Christmas" doesn't speak well to your position or your humanity.

I am an alum too and went to grad school with a bunch of alumni of other SEC schools. There is a difference. Alumni seem to stay more loyal than average fans that flip from school to school.

For example, I am seeing more Georgia fans this past year coming out of the woodwork. Where are they coming from? Would they be around if Georgia hadn't won 29 straight games?

 

[OffTackleVol]

Here are some notable teams rankings by OPPONENT penalties:

Oregon 105
Michigan 110
Ohio St 115
Bama 120
UGA 122
Texas 131

overall the top teams are not really getting the favorable whistle. Have there been times were we have had some bad missed calls? Yes, definitely. Refs are not leaving people wide open. Refs are not dropping balls or overthrowing balls. refs are not fumbling. Refs are not the reason for our AWEFUL redzone production on offense and defense. Refs are not perfect but also have not cost us a single game this year. If that's your cope fine but get your panties in a knot because some people point out the problems within our program that our team is in control of fixing...

If you don't think the 2nd half officiating of the Bama game didn't negatively effect our outcome, then I don't what to tell ya.

 

[WhenUrVolUrVFL]

Alum here. So I guess if I said that I'm less than pleased with Barnes coaching (not wanting him fired, however) and blaming officiating is a cop-out in a game like last night, does that pass your litmus test since I'm an alum? Or because I have a contrary opinion to you it's a disqualifier? Officiating IS terrible - but it doesn't tell the full story or paint the picture of how our system works - we are going to (most times) have less chances at the stripe because we DONT attack the basket and we fade away on most of our midrange and distance jumpers.

Why come in here acting like you are the arbiter of being a Vol because you are an alum? Who cares? There are Vol fans from all walks of life, pulling the alum card is just silly.

Dialogue is healthy, but this constant bickering and walling off different opinions (on all sides of this argument, to be clear) is just another symptom of a societal issue. We can't debate, exchange ideas, or otherwise share knowledge and ideas without it turning into an US versus THEM, zero-sum affair. And telling people to "go play in traffic" and "have a terrible Christmas" doesn't speak well to your position or your humanity.

Because we just spent 20 years as a laughing stock in football.

We decide to repeat the same exact mistake in basketball that we did in football because we had a bad 3 game stretch?

If you’re not critical of officiating and willing to admit it’s statistically significant and further willing to admit the university should demand accountability—then I don’t think you’re equipped to have an honest discussion about what’s going on with Tennessee athletics. It’s not even opinion anymore. There is a serious issue that needs to be addressed and it’s not our coaching.

Random post on Instagram ranking top 50 coaching tandems:

 

[BigBadVol]

Until the officials have to answer for their ineptitude, nothing will change. They claim every game is scrutinized and the officials are graded but nothing changes as the same crews go out there week after week. I’m getting to the point of not enjoying the games anymore due to officiating and not just TN games. I hate any team getting jobbed by the officials. This includes all sports.

 

[DooleyOrangePants]

I am an alum too and went to grad school with a bunch of alumni of other SEC schools. There is a difference. Alumni seem to stay more loyal than average fans that flip from school to school.

For example, I am seeing more Georgia fans this past year coming out of the woodwork. Where are they coming from? Would they be around if Georgia hadn't won 29 straight games?

I'm not really speaking to a loyalty factor, but more towards the idea that an alum somehow carries more weight in the arena of ideas surrounding a program. Sure, we have a financial & personal stake more than most of the fanbase, some more than others if we continue paying into the University for different things.

There is a wide berth for different schools of thought on how a program is being run or should be run. I think that alum or not, you are going to find people dispersed throughout the different schools of thought regardless of their perceived status. To me, it's not a disqualifier to have a contrary opinion to my own, and certainly not one if a person is not an alum.

One of the smartest basketball minds that I know and a huge Tennessee fan, is a retiree that goes to my church. In his 70's and has essentially the equivalent of a 10th grade education. I don't discount his ideas on the way the season is shaping out just because he's not an alum or lesser social class than myself. His opinion is Barnes can do no wrong - do I agree with it? No, but I certainly respect his opinion and he's even opened my eyes to things that maybe I'm too critical on.

 

[WhenUrVolUrVFL]

Until the officials have to answer for their ineptitude, nothing will change. They claim every game is scrutinized and the officials are graded but nothing changes as the same crews go out there week after week. I’m getting to the point of not enjoying the games anymore due to officiating and not just TN games. I hate any team getting jobbed by the officials. This includes all sports.

Agreed. Hell I give a **** less about the Steelers but I can’t help but dislike the franchise as a whole for what I neutrally observed when they won their two super bowls.

To see it happen consistently to our Alma mater—infuriating.

 

[robcovol]

Vols fan deep in Aggieland. Aggie fans consider themselves elite, but the only national championship they have won was in women’s basketball. They have the resources, but have done very little with them. They are so jealous of the University of Texas, and are absolutely furious that the Longhorns are now in the SEC. They really are the original “little brother.” Now that they have a new coach in football, they think that this is their time. I’m mentally filing away their comments for about three or four years from now.

 

[DooleyOrangePants]

Because we just spent 20 years as a laughing stock in football.

We decide to repeat the same exact mistake in basketball that we did in football because we had a bad 3 game stretch?

If you’re not critical of officiating and willing to admit it’s statistically significant and further willing to admit the university should demand accountability—then I don’t think you’re equipped to have an honest discussion about what’s going on with Tennessee athletics. It’s not even opinion anymore. There is a serious issue that needs to be addressed and it’s not our coaching.

Random post on Instagram ranking top 50 coaching tandems:

View attachment 598871

Using your logic, you obviously aren't capable of reading comprehension because I specifically said that officiating is terrible. I have on multiple occasions, been extremely critical of officiating and it does have impact on games, perhaps more so on us than a lot of others. And I will agree with you wholeheartedly on the point that the University and the conference should demand more and we as fans (alum or not) should be trying everything we can to get the NCAA to make real and measurable changes to the way officiating as a whole is being handled.

Here's my question to you - was it the officiating that cost us the game last night or was it the defensive ineptitude that led to uncontested shots and clear paths to the basket for 30 minutes of the game? I'm not discounting that there were bad calls that led to points, but I will not jump into the boat that it was the officials last night that cost us the game. That's disingenuous at best. We came into a game without focus, intensity, or much of a game plan (or execution of one) and by the time we got one going, it was too late.

And again - not a "FAHHHRRR BARNES" guy. We are fortunate to have him, and I appreciate everything he has done for our university. But he's not infallible and as the head guy, deserves (measured) criticism just like anyone else when it's warranted.

 

[WhenUrVolUrVFL]

I'm not really speaking to a loyalty factor, but more towards the idea that an alum somehow carries more weight in the arena of ideas surrounding a program. Sure, we have a financial stake more than most of the fanbase, some more than others if we continue paying into the University for different things.

There is a wide berth for different schools of thought on how a program is being run or should be run. I think that alum or not, you are going to find people dispersed throughout the different schools of thought regardless of their perceived status. To me, it's not a disqualifier to have a contrary opinion to my own, and certainly not one if a person is not an alum.

One of the smartest basketball minds that I know and a huge Tennessee fan, is a retiree that goes to my church. In his 70's and has essentially the equivalent of a 10th grade education. I don't discount his ideas on the way the season is shaping out just because he's not an alum or lesser social class than myself. His opinion is Barnes can do no wrong - do I agree with it? No, but I certainly respect his opinion and he's even opened my eyes to things that maybe I'm too critical on.

I never insinuated my opinions were more valid as an alum, I was qualifying my status as an alum to say that my allegiance is unquestionable and unwavering as you will only ever have one undergraduate alma mater. I can’t turn off being an alumni. And I want to make sure the university that I represent is not getting absolutely ham jobbed by a contrived effort to hurt our athletics when I’ve seen it happen CONSISTENTLY. Denying a problem exists doesn’t fix the problem.

The way we fix what’s going on—is by understanding a problem exists. And then solving it.

It’s not just an opinion of mine that a problem exists. There’s data backing it up. FT discrepancies aside this season, the first down data from this season is statiscally significant.

 

[The Tall Gguy]

Your opinion is probably awful. There is objective truth. And if you want Rick Barnes gone—you’re objectively an idiot and deserving of people like me hating on you for being dumb.

I challenge you to find 1 post of mine stating I want Rick Barnes gone. Then, when you can't, I expect you to man up and publicly apologize.

 

[WhenUrVolUrVFL]

Using your logic, you obviously aren't capable of reading comprehension because I specifically said that officiating is terrible. I have on multiple occasions, been extremely critical of officiating and it does have impact on games, perhaps more so on us than a lot of others. And I will agree with you wholeheartedly on the point that the University and the conference should demand more and we as fans (alum or not) should be trying everything we can to get the NCAA to make real and measurable changes to the way officiating as a whole is being handled.

Here's my question to you - was it the officiating that cost us the game last night or was it the defensive ineptitude that led to uncontested shots and clear paths to the basket for 30 minutes of the game? I'm not discounting that there were bad calls that led to points, but I will not jump into the boat that it was the officials last night that cost us the game. That's disingenuous at best. We came into a game without focus, intensity, or much of a game plan (or execution of one) and by the time we got one going, it was too late.

No. North Carolina outplayed us.

I will also say tho, we haven’t been the same team since we got the technical foul called on us against Purdue. What happened with the atrocious officiating against Purdue carried over against Kansas.

And then it carried over against UNC.

Look up a Reddit thread for one of our gamethreads and you’ll see fans from all over the country wondering what happens when we play…the officiating is always called to question.

It’s not their job to demand accountability on a recurring issue facing Tennessee athletics. It’s our job. And if we don’t collectively identify this problem and demand an answer—we will receive none. And the ******** will continue.

 

[cncchris33]

OP, I think you made a couple valid points in your opening argument, but this statement...

Firing Fulmer was the biggest mistake any major program has ever made.

...that is where I checked out.

 

[volbound1700]

Vols fan deep in Aggieland. Aggie fans consider themselves elite, but the only national championship they have won was in women’s basketball. They have the resources, but have done very little with them. They are so jealous of the University of Texas, and are absolutely furious that the Longhorns are now in the SEC. They really are the original “little brother.” Now that they have a new coach in football, they think that this is their time. I’m mentally filing away their comments for about three or four years from now.

What is funny is that Missouri has a fraction of Aggie's resources but I think Missouri has been just as successful (if not more) in football as A&M since joining. Missouri doesn't get the hype though.

 

[DooleyOrangePants]

No. North Carolina outplayed us.

I will also say tho, we haven’t been the same team since we got the technical foul called on us against Purdue. What happened with the atrocious officiating against Purdue carried over against Kansas.

And then it carried over against UNC.

Look up a Reddit thread for one of our gamethreads and you’ll see fans from all over the country wondering what happens when we play…the officiating is always called to question.

It’s not their job to demand accountability on a recurring issue facing Tennessee athletics. It’s our job. And if we don’t collectively identify this problem and demand an answer—we will receive none. And the ******** will continue.

Then I'm not sure where our disconnect is - because I'm 100% in agreement with you on this. I just think that painting dissenting opinions with a broad brush is misplaced. We can (and SHOULD!) question Barnes (or Heupel or Vitello or Harper or whoever) when it's warranted - it comes with the job. I think there are insane opinions on both sides of this equation - it's just as ridiculous to have unquestioning loyalty to Barnes as it is to be ready to run him out of town and dismiss what he has accomplished because of a bad string of games. There is a lot of space in between those two positions and I think that's where the majority of us are (including you and I, if we are honest).

We do have an officiating problem, that is clear. It has been pathetic in all sports for some time, but this year it's really rearing its head. There needs to be accountability and action taken and I'd like to see that start with the university and Danny White getting out in front of it. The argument has always been "it will make it worse" but let's be real, how much worse can it get from where we are now? Sure, it could get worse but doing nothing about this problem is tantamount to rolling over and playing scared and that's not what we should be about.

 

[The Tall Gguy]

Then I'm not sure where our disconnect is - because I'm 100% in agreement with you on this. I just think that painting dissenting opinions with a broad brush is misplaced. We can (and SHOULD!) question Barnes (or Heupel or Vitello or Harper or whoever) when it's warranted - it comes with the job. I think there are insane opinions on both sides of this equation - it's just as ridiculous to have unquestioning loyalty to Barnes as it is to be ready to run him out of town and dismiss what he has accomplished because of a bad string of games. There is a lot of space in between those two positions and I think that's where the majority of us are (including you and I, if we are honest).

We do have an officiating problem, that is clear. It has been pathetic in all sports for some time, but this year it's really rearing its head. There needs to be accountability and action taken and I'd like to see that start with the university and Danny White getting out in front of it. The argument has always been "it will make it worse" but let's be real, how much worse can it get from where we are now? Sure, it could get worse but doing nothing about this problem is tantamount to rolling over and playing scared and that's not what we should be about.

If you have been here for any time you know a large portion of the fanbase worship and defend the coach to the death (a free pass). Then they will say they never liked him when he is finally fired.

Disclaimer: I am.not advocating any coach be fired.

 

[DooleyOrangePants]

If you have been here for any time you know a large portion of the fanbase worship and defend the coach to the death (a free pass). Then they will say they never liked him when he is finally fired.

Disclaimer: I am.not advocating any coach be fired.

Yeah, that is true and I should know that by now. But with Barnes, it just seems there are two camps and no room to have any opinion outside of those two. If you are critical, you get painted as a "FAHHHRR BARNES" guy that just wants to wallow in misery because he can't be replaced. If you are positive, then you are sunshine pumper that is fine with mediocrity.

Maybe we are far enough away from the Dooley/Butch/Pruitt disasters that I've forgotten what that was like and maybe it was similar - but ultimately, all three were terrible hires that proved themselves to be inept at best. Barnes is a different animal - he has done so much and got us to a level where we can expect more. But that doesn't mean that we can't be critical of what he is or isn't doing or his system.

 

[WhenUrVolUrVFL]

Then I'm not sure where our disconnect is - because I'm 100% in agreement with you on this. I just think that painting dissenting opinions with a broad brush is misplaced. We can (and SHOULD!) question Barnes (or Heupel or Vitello or Harper or whoever) when it's warranted - it comes with the job. I think there are insane opinions on both sides of this equation - it's just as ridiculous to have unquestioning loyalty to Barnes as it is to be ready to run him out of town and dismiss what he has accomplished because of a bad string of games. There is a lot of space in between those two positions and I think that's where the majority of us are (including you and I, if we are honest).

We do have an officiating problem, that is clear. It has been pathetic in all sports for some time, but this year it's really rearing its head. There needs to be accountability and action taken and I'd like to see that start with the university and Danny White getting out in front of it. The argument has always been "it will make it worse" but let's be real, how much worse can it get from where we are now? Sure, it could get worse but doing nothing about this problem is tantamount to rolling over and playing scared and that's not what we should be about.

I think vol Twitter is one of the most powerful forces in sports when it comes to letting our presence be known. When Texas A&M almost hired Mark Stoops, their fanbase collective outrage that helped kaiboshed the deal made the entirety of Reddit bring up our fanbase with Schiano.

I think if people understood the extent of what is going on here, there would be collective outrage. Some people think it’s just a coincidence and it’s something our players should overcome.

I think officiating has directly altered the outcome of many games Tennessee athletics has been involved in.

UNC football with Jansen Jackson’s hit
Purdue basketball with the Lamonte Turner foul
Purdue football with the Wright obvious TD not ruled as such
The FAU game last year

Alabama football and the bizarre fair catch.
Ole Miss. Batteries and golf balls….

I mean how long do we let this go without a serious inquiry????

We seriously need to call this to question immediately.

 

[WhenUrVolUrVFL]

OP, I think you made a couple valid points in your opening argument, but this statement...

...that is where I checked out.

Well you might have felt that way in 2008 and might have even been vocal about it. 15 years of Tennessee football being a door mat though should probably make you think again…

 

[WhenUrVolUrVFL]

Yeah, that is true and I should know that by now. But with Barnes, it just seems there are two camps and no room to have any opinion outside of those two. If you are critical, you get painted as a "FAHHHRR BARNES" guy that just wants to wallow in misery because he can't be replaced. If you are positive, then you are sunshine pumper that is fine with mediocrity.

Maybe we are far enough away from the Dooley/Butch/Pruitt disasters that I've forgotten what that was like and maybe it was similar - but ultimately, all three were terrible hires that proved themselves to be inept at best. Barnes is a different animal - he has done so much and got us to a level where we can expect more. But that doesn't mean that we can't be critical of what he is or isn't doing or his system.

I guess our disconnect then is just how outrageous the officiating impacts our athletes.

The FAU game and that floppy golden kid and the ridiculous calls on Aidoo just completely altered that game. Our kids know some ******** is going on and they get tight. It happens every year. And we don’t do anything about it.

 

[The Tall Gguy]

Yeah, that is true and I should know that by now. But with Barnes, it just seems there are two camps and no room to have any opinion outside of those two. If you are critical, you get painted as a "FAHHHRR BARNES" guy that just wants to wallow in misery because he can't be replaced. If you are positive, then you are sunshine pumper that is fine with mediocrity.

Maybe we are far enough away from the Dooley/Butch/Pruitt disasters that I've forgotten what that was like and maybe it was similar - but ultimately, all three were terrible hires that proved themselves to be inept at best. Barnes is a different animal - he has done so much and got us to a level where we can expect more. But that doesn't mean that we can't be critical of what he is or isn't doing or his system.

Tennessee Athletic Department has, in the past, repeatedly given the fan base the middle finger with coaching hires (Dooley, Butch, Pruitt, O'Neil, Green, Tyndall...)
It is no wonder so many are quick to assume the worst when things start to trend down...this has been proven over and over to be an accurate indication of a coach being in over his head.
Barnes has assembled a high talent program but struggles to get consistent results. Heupel has also built a high talent program, but has 2022 uscjr loss and not even competitive in 4 losses in 2023.
I think we have to question when things don't look right.

 

[DooleyOrangePants]

I guess our disconnect then is just how outrageous the officiating impacts our athletes.

The FAU game and that floppy golden kid and the ridiculous calls on Aidoo just completely altered that game. Our kids know some ******** is going on and they get tight. It happens every year. And we don’t do anything about it.

Could be onto something with respect to Aidoo - he plays tight and afraid to get physical. Could be a byproduct of the years past, particularly that FAU game and how he was completely neutralized by the officials.

 

[cncchris33]

Well you might have felt that way in 2008 and might have even been vocal about it. 15 years of Tennessee football being a door mat though should probably make you think again…

No, the two things aren't mutually exclusive, nor are they intrinsically tied to each other. Despite firing Fulmer, the bad hires that followed were separate events all their own.

Keeping Fulmer just because you might make a bad hire isn't the answer. That's fear, and big, elite programs aren't built and maintained out of fear of failure. You really want your AD to keep an underperforming coach because he's afraid he can't make a good hire to replace him???

Yes, we ended up with Dooley, Butch, and Gumpy, but what if one of those guys had been Ryan Day or Lincoln Riley?

In fact, to be fair, Lane Kiffin (who replaced Fulmer) has turned out to be a pretty good coach. He was just too immature for the job at Tennessee at the time that he got it. If we had hired 48 year old Lane Kiffin instead of 33 year old Lane Kiffin, things might have turned out differently.

 

[EastTNVol423]

If you don't think the 2nd half officiating of the Bama game didn't negatively effect our outcome, then I don't what to tell ya.

They didn't leave a WR running wide open for a TD to open the second half. Not saying that there weren't some crappy calls but our team crapped the bed. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell ya.

 

[Tenacjim]

They didn't leave a WR running wide open for a TD to open the second half. Not saying that there weren't some crappy calls but our team crapped the bed. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell ya.

But they did miss a chokehold on Tyler Baron on that very play…..