Debate Poll

Who won

  • Trump

  • Biden

  • Neither, I would vote for golfballs

Results are only viewable after voting.
#51
#51
golfballs said:
Supposedly, denying ones own racism is evidence of their racism. I’m not the one making these rules
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ah. apparently a holdover from another thread. im not privy to those deets.

but yeah, huff is a horrible racist. I am too. Unfortunately I am racists against whitey according to a poster.
 
#54
#54
McDad said:
ah. apparently a holdover from another thread. im not privy to those deets.

but yeah, huff is a horrible racist. I am too. Unfortunately I am racists against whitey according to a poster.
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No idea what he's talking about either. I can't tell if that makes it a good deflection or a bad one.
 
#59
#59
Mick said:
They seem to embrace conservative value long forgotten by the Republican party.
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I am resigned to the disheartening truth that I will not see another authentic small government advocate running for president in my lifetime. I mean someone who doesn't just offer up rhetoric but a true believer; someone willing to fight for smaller government.
 
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#62
#62
LouderVol said:
I am trying to read the transcript now. What an effing mess. I gave up after the Covid section.

I agree with whoever suggested it, turn off the mic of whoever is not supposed to be talking. But even when they weren't derailing each other its painful. Half truths everywhere. More references to the other than the actual subject matter, both avoid questions. Either directly or just by talking around it.
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Idk. I think they likely would have walked across the stage and yelled into the other’s microphone.

I actually watched a focus group of about 12-15 “undecided” swing state voters. I don’t think 2-3 of them were ever undecided voters. It was conducted by Frank Luntz and it’s probably still up on his Twitter.

I found it to be more interesting than the debate and much more interesting than any post-debate commentary. Biden appeared to win that group but most were still undecided.
 
#63
#63
McDad said:
I am resigned to the disheartening truth that I will not see another authentic small government advocate running for president in my lifetime. I mean someone who doesn't just offer up rhetoric but a true believer; someone willing to fight for smaller government.
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It feels like voting for big govt vs bigger govt
 
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#67
#67
McDad said:
I am resigned to the disheartening truth that I will not see another authentic small government advocate running for president in my lifetime. I mean someone who doesn't just offer up rhetoric but a true believer; someone willing to fight for smaller government.
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Who was the last one that got elected?
 
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#71
#71
AirVol said:
Trump, Biden wouldn’t answer a lot of questions. Actually refused to answer one of them.
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And Chris Wallace didn't force them to. He let them skirt direct answers. Wallace should have asked much more pointed questions.

Seriously did we learn anything policy wise from last night? Wallace was a disappointment. Unfortunately he'll probably be the most Trump friendly moderator of the 3 debates...and he appeared to lean towards Biden
 
#74
#74
"I can't tell you how many times in the last four years someone has written to me on social media or over email, "I think you do great work but you're wrong about Trump." Or, "I support your work on cops, but you're suffering from TDS." Here's the thing: If you support Trump, you don't support my work. The two are mutually exclusive. Trump actively undermines everything I do professionally. He also makes my job more difficult.

His incessant "enemy of the people" and "fake news" ******** make my work -- and my life -- more fraught, stressful, and exhausting. I regularly get death threats now. I didn't before 2016. I get people insulting my wife and family, and wishing violence upon them. I find my job rewarding and fulfilling. So I continue to do it. This isn't a complaint. It's a fact. Trump has made my job more taxing.

For much of my career, a significant portion of the right was at least consistent enough in their skepticism of government to be sympathetic to the notion that cops and prosecutors are subject to the same trappings of power as an FDA bureaucrat or your typical Congressman. Trumpism has flattened much of that. Every police shooting is now binary. You signal your politics by either criticizing the cops or by criticizing media coverage of the incident. Every misstep, inconsistency, or misreported detail is evidence of a conspiracy, proof that the police were justified, and more evidence that the media/BLM/Soros are lying.

I broke my journalism teeth on the Cory Maye story, with significant boosting and amplification from the right. I got some details wrong in my early reporting. People understood that the larger injustice mattered more. The Trumpist right's reaction to the death of Breonna Taylor makes it pretty clear that sort of nuance would be lost today. This wholesale deference to law enforcement from "limited government" types can be breathtaking. People who once claimed to be skeptical of government now accept government narratives about Lafayette Square or Louisville as the gospel truth. Because that's how you signal which side you're on.

Twice in just the past month, Trump has praised police violence against people in my profession. He regularly celebrates police brutality. For decades, victims of police violence struggled to be heard. For decades, abusive cops and their enablers in government lied to cover up excessive force. After George Floyd, they were finally being heard. Polls shifted in favor of reform. In response, the most powerful man in the world deployed police violence -- his administration ordered protesters gassed and shot with projectiles. They even gassed church clergy. All to silence them so Trump could pretend to give a damn about religion. And then he and his administration shamelessly lied about it all.

Trump helped a despotic foreign government cover up the brutal murder and dismemberment of one of my colleagues. That journalist's offense? He had criticized the abuse, corruption, and human rights record of the oppressive Saudi government. This is a government that sponsors terrorism, that tortures and kills its critics, and that executes people for their sexuality, religion (or lack thereof), or politics. Trump praises them and rewards them. Because, as he has reminded us on numerous occasions, the Saudi royal family does business with him. And they once bought a yacht from him.

Trump has openly suggested that if necessary, police officers (along with "bikers" and the "military") will use violence to keep him in power. He has lied about the crime rate and stoked white fear of black crime from the first day of his presidency. (Incidentally, the murder rate went up under his watch.) He has lied about the crime rate among undocumented immigrants, and cherry picked a few heinous crimes to stoke fear and hatred of all immigrants.

He claims to be in favor of letting states and cities set their own policing policies, but he has actively undermined and attempted to punish cities that tried to implement their own reforms. Trump openly boasts about the police unions who have endorsed him. He did it again last night. He couldn't be prouder.

He has praised Rodrigo Duterte, a foreign leader who has waged a campaign of extrajudicial executions of people suspected of drug crimes. He didn't praise Duterte in spite of those policies. He explicitly praised those specific policies. He has openly praised other countries who execute drug dealers, *because* they execute drug dealers.

Trump's DOJ strangled any hope of real forensics reform in its infancy. He killed the modest changes Obama made to curb asset forfeiture abuses. He also overturned Obama's restrictions on how the Pentagon gives away surplus military equipment to police agencies.

He has ended federal investigations of police departments with patterns and history of abuse, excessive force, and unjustified shootings. He even ended a program where police agencies could *ask* the federal government to help them implement policies on de-escalation and less aggressive policing. He then diverted those funds to anti-gang and drug enforcement.

The Trump administration has executed more people than the federal government executed in the previous 50 years combined. His DOJ overturned an Obama directive advising cities and towns on the destructive effects of excessive fines and fees to generate revenue for local government.

You shouldn't have needed last night's debate to clarify for you the sort of man Trump really is. But my God. If that didn't do it, I don't know what to tell you. No president in my lifetime has been particularly good on the issues I cover and care about. It's hard to imagine an administration more hostile to them than this one.

And yes, I know Biden has been bad on this stuff for most of his career. I'm often the person people cite when they make that very point. But Biden doesn't glorify police violence. He doesn't encourage violence against and hatred of journalists. There's no comparison. One candidate is a career politician whose positions on these issues has been about on par with the Democratic party's history -- which is to say pretty bad. The other is a dangerous demagogue who boasts of "unleashing" law enforcement, and has made it clear that if it were within his power, he'd end the free press. So please don't claim to support both Trump and me and the work I do. It's ****ing insulting." - Radley Balko
 
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