Debt Limit Bottom Line

#4
#4
It would indeed be perilous for you to read.

In summation = the debt mess we're in is more the fault of Republicans than it is of Democrats.
 
#5
#5
But..but..but.. tax breaks encourage re-investment in business and help employment and the economy and blah, blah, blah, vomit.

Sidenote for the OP: facts bring attacks.
 
#6
#6
milohimself said:
It would indeed be perilous for you to read.

In summation = the debt mess we're in is more the fault of Republicans than it is of Democrats.
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. . . if you buy the premise that it's mostly a revenue problem.
 
#7
#7
GAVol said:
. . . if you buy the premise that it's mostly a revenue problem.
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and the notion that allowing people to keep more of the money that they earn is a bad thing

I thought there was an unwritten rule around here that blog sites weren't to be trusted because the authors will always have an agenda.
 
#8
#8
MG1968 said:
and the notion that allowing people to keep more of the money that they earn is a bad thing

I thought there was an unwritten rule around here that blog sites weren't to be trusted because the authors will always have an agenda.
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Speaking of agendas, its been quiet around here lately....
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#10
#10
trying to remember the 2010 tax cuts but I'm having trouble. Anyone want to remind me about this event?
 
#12
#12
The problem we have now is that the debt is objectively at a high point and people have been sold on the subjective notion that taxes are too high. So you've got everyone in basic agreement that the debt needs to be tackled but at complete loggerheads on how to get do it.

I think the GOP needs to come up with some better proof that lowering taxes (or keeping the Bush cuts on the top) will spur investment and jobs growth, thereby increasing tax revenues over the long haul. The lower class will never believe that. And, seems that the middle class remains unconvinced at this point.

That's the real reason the Ryan plan is held in such contempt by a majority of Americans. Its not just that it transitions Medicare and costs seniors more for their care. Its that it does it at the same time it gives tax breaks to the wealthiest. Absent some reason to think that is actually going to work, people just aren't going to support it.
 
#14
#14
Analysis of who's to blame was stupid and ignored politics. The opening salvo regarding separating votes on debt vs tax raising vs debt ceiling was a good one.
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#15
#15
lawgator1 said:
The problem we have now is that the debt is objectively at a high point and people have been sold on the subjective notion that taxes are too high. So you've got everyone in basic agreement that the debt needs to be tackled but at complete loggerheads on how to get do it.
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First and foremost is there anything about our current government (and current Dem leadership in particular) that would lead you or anyone to believe that any amount of increased revenue is not going to find a way to be spent as soon as (if not before) it hits the coffers?
 
#16
#16
CSVol said:
Extension of the "temporary" breaks from 2001.
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that's not a tax cut but rather they prevented the largest tax hike in US history. Keeping money out of the government's hands is a positive thing
 
#17
#17
hndog609 said:
First and foremost is there anything about our current government (and current Dem leadership in particular) that would lead you or anyone to believe that any amount of increased revenue is not going to find a way to be spent as soon as (if not before) it hits the coffers?
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Right now, yes. With all of the public attention on it, should the United States win the Milky Way Powerball, I would expect it to get spent on debt reduction.

But failing that, and assuming the issues fades over time, I have 100 percent confidence that whoever runs the government (the Dems or the GOP) will spend every nickel they get their hands on.

Everyone is tired of trying to blame the debt on one party or the other. Both share enough blame that even if you could say its 60-40 or 65-35 or whatever, no one cares. The Paul family is on the money on that part of this.
 
#18
#18
utvolpj said:
that's not a tax cut but rather they prevented the largest tax hike in US history. Keeping money out of the government's hands is a positive thing
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Weren't the Bush breaks from 2001 meant to lower the existing rates and set to expire at a certain point merely to return to pre-cut levels? How is returning to existing rates a tax hike?
 
#19
#19
I believe the Medicare Part D received few D votes because the D's had their own version which was even more costly.

Also wonder why House votes are omitted from the analysis.

Interesting too that he simply brushes off the D votes against the debt ceiling in 2006 as not hypocritical while claiming the R votes are. Particularly missing is Obama's comments (as he voted against it) that raising the debt ceiling was a failure of leadership then but somehow isn't now.

Congress including Republicans certainly spend too much but the entire premise that calls for fiscal responsibility now are somehow wrong because they are hypocritical is ludicrous. Between Rs spending too much or clamping down on spending I don't care if they've had a change of heart so long as they clamp down on spending.
 
#20
#20
If the author wants to play the hypocrisy game, he should also look to what additional spending beyond revenue occurred after the last debt limit increase. That is the portion we are dealing with. If no additional deficits occurred during that time then we wouldn't have to raise the limit.

So the last time most Dems voted against raising it saying our deficits were too high. Redo the analysis since 2006 and you'll see the Ds have a bigger role since they were in power.
 
#21
#21
CSVol said:
Weren't the Bush breaks from 2001 meant to lower the existing rates and set to expire at a certain point merely to return to pre-cut levels? How is returning to existing rates a tax hike?
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how is not raising taxes a tax cut?
 
#23
#23
volinbham said:
If the author wants to play the hypocrisy game, he should also look to what additional spending beyond revenue occurred after the last debt limit increase. That is the portion we are dealing with. If no additional deficits occurred during that time then we wouldn't have to raise the limit.

So the last time most Dems voted against raising it saying our deficits were too high. Redo the analysis since 2006 and you'll see the Ds have a bigger role since they were in power.
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Neither the Dems nor the GOP can make credible claim of hypocrisy on the debt. As I say, at this point, we sort of are where we are and finger pointing just slows down the process of reform.
 
#24
#24
lawgator1 said:
Right now, yes. With all of the public attention on it, should the United States win the Milky Way Powerball, I would expect it to get spent on debt reduction.

Perhaps, but I'm cosmically dubious that any amount of increased revenue from raising taxes will create the kind of windfall surplus that our politicians would use for that purpose.

But failing that, and assuming the issues fades over time, I have 100 percent confidence that whoever runs the government (the Dems or the GOP) will spend every nickel they get their hands on.

Agreed.

Everyone is tired of trying to blame the debt on one party or the other. Both share enough blame that even if you could say its 60-40 or 65-35 or whatever, no one cares. The Paul family is on the money on that part of this.
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To your last part I used "government" right out front so I've no problem spreading blame but debt has gone NUTS under this latest Dem bunch.

Remember, this isn't a battle of how to "pay down the debt" in the first place...it's should we be able to take on even more debt.
 
#25
#25
hndog609 said:
To your last part I used "government" right out front so I've no problem spreading blame but debt has gone NUTS under this latest Dem bunch.

Remember, this isn't a battle of how to "pay down the debt" in the first place...it's should we be able to take on even more debt.
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Raising the limit isn't about new spending. It does not authorize new spending.

It authorizes incurring debt to make interest payments on spending which already occurred.

There is a superficial appeal to tying the two together in concept, but that is more political than accurate.

The GOP is going to end up with a victory out of this. It won't be massive (i.e. trillions in cuts), but I think at the end of the day there will be some real discussion of, for example, extending the qualifying for SS or Medicare by a year or two.

Its inevitable.

And frankly, if they could come to terms on something like a phased in delay in qualifying for those benefits and then passed a debt ceiling increase, the next day the stock market would go through the roof.
 
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