Debt Limit Bottom Line

#53
#53
volinbham said:
1. As MG suggests they can certainly pay more in taxes if they like

2. I'm tired of the term "patriot" being applied to any and all things whether left or right.
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1. Sure, but they have a point, IMO.

2. Me, too. Patriotism is overrated.
 
#54
#54
CSVol said:
Did the breaks achieve this?
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I'll go on the record for you and be brutally honest. if the tax breaks had of expired I was firing 6 people on my marketing business and 2 on my insurance side. The lay off would have to be done to offset the difference in my tax bill or else I would have been personally effected ... which wasn't going to happen nor would it have happened to any business owner that had the option to increase work load and decrease payroll. I also knew due to the economy that I would be able to fire these people and increase the work load and no one would even mention it. The tax cuts were not expired and because of this I have not only kept the existing staff but have hired on both sides.

What I just said is brutal but it is honest. You are not touching anyone business owners net take home as long as the business owner has the ability to re-align staff and load of the work flow. All it would have done is created more unemployed.
 
#55
#55
It's sort of why I wish we could go back to putting heads on sticks. Then maybe you would have suffered with everyone else.

edit: ps. That's an exaggeration because you're right, the business owners weren't going to take a hit themselves which is why Obama extended them. Not doing so could only hurt the recovery and thus tax receipts. I do think you can bring them back up when the economy is doing well, just not when it's bad (Isn't that a Keynesian policy...spending through tax breaks without budget cuts with it?)
 
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#56
#56
VOLatile said:
1. Sure, but they have a point, IMO.
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not really, they seem a bit misguided

You and your colleagues over
the past decade have voted for vast outlays that many of us as individuals might not agree with.
Nonetheless, we recognize our responsibility as citizens to pay for these expenditures, which were
authorized by our elected representatives, and are therefore ultimately our collective
responsibility.
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we don't agree with your spending but are willing to give you even more money to fund your projects.

We are ready to step up to the plate with a willingness to sacrifice for the greater good but we are
not willing to make that sacrifice in vain, which it surely would be if we followed the course that
you suggest.
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we won't do it unless everyone else does. I don't think that's a patriotic stance

Second, you write: "this debt crisis is not caused because we tax too little. It is caused because our
nation spends too much." This is quibbling over semantics. Deficits result when spending exceeds
receipts. Whether that happens because spending is too high or receipts are too low is a matter of
perspective and priorities.
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didn't they say earlier they didn't agree with at least some of the spending?

there is more but those stood out. They don't sound like Patriotic millionaires to me but rather rich Dems advocating more money for the feds to spend
 
#57
#57
VOLatile said:
How do you guys feel about "The Patriotic Millionaires?"
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buffetts one of the biggest tax cheats in american history. he's paid millions of legal fees to avoid taxes. it's ridiculous. easy to say you'll pay higher taxes now taht you are a billionare and one of the reasons why you BECAME a billionare was exploiting the tax code.
 
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#58
#58
droski said:
buffetts on of the biggest tax cheats in american history. he's paid millions of legal fees to avoid taxes. it's ridiculous. easy to say you'll pay higher taxes now taht you are a billionare and one of the reasons why you BECAME a billionare was exploiting the tax code.
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and there's no debate about this. None of our uber wealthy calling for big taxes did anything but cheat the tax man during the period that they were building their now untaxable wealth via actual income.

It's a bit like Joe Kennedy's campaign against insider trading, well after he used in to turn illicit liquor sales (non-taxable) into a mountain of wealth via - you got it, insider trading.
 
#59
#59
NEOCON said:
I'll go on the record for you and be brutally honest. if the tax breaks had of expired I was firing 6 people on my marketing business and 2 on my insurance side. The lay off would have to be done to offset the difference in my tax bill or else I would have been personally effected ... which wasn't going to happen nor would it have happened to any business owner that had the option to increase work load and decrease payroll. I also knew due to the economy that I would be able to fire these people and increase the work load and no one would even mention it. The tax cuts were not expired and because of this I have not only kept the existing staff but have hired on both sides.

What I just said is brutal but it is honest. You are not touching anyone business owners net take home as long as the business owner has the ability to re-align staff and load of the work flow. All it would have done is created more unemployed.
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I appreciate your response and know many business owners who feel exactly the same concerning their personal bottom line(most in insurance coincidentally). One question, not an attack, were these employees on staff before the breaks? If not, do you see the tax breaks as creating a business environment conducive to the additional staff needs or had you been growing on your own to justify the increased staff? Again, no attack just genuine interest.
 
#63
#63
The thinking is now WE can bail the Govt. out I guess..H.R. 2411, entitled “Reduce America’s Debt Now Act of 2011” and introduced on July 6, would “provide for an employee election on Form W-4 to have amounts deducted and withheld from wages to be used to reduce the public debt.” http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:h2411:
 
#66
#66
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies".

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006
 
#68
#68
myrobbins7 said:
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies".

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006
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myrobbins7 said:
Really Mr. Obama?
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POTUS, through his advisers, has retracted that statement.

go figure, it's amazing to see how many things Senator Obama complained about that President Obama is continuing and even making excuses for.
 
#69
#69
I have one question, especially if you're personally receiving tax breaks. Since we have these totally necessary tax breaks in place right now that were started during the Bush admin. and continued under Obama and the purpose of the extension was, in theory, to allow for rich folks to keep more money they would spend, which would lead to growth in business which would, in turn, spawn job growth, then why the hell are the people profiting from the tax cuts not keeping up their end of the deal?

Don't tell me that times are bad and the rich are being more cautious with their money. That's counterintuitive to the argument of extended tax breaks for those in the very top tax bracket.
 
#70
#70
Because nobody knows how much it will cost to employ someone in 2 years and they are also afraid that someone in his administration will have an axe to grind on an industry and try to or have regulations changed to make it more difficult to conduct that business
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#71
#71
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Because nobody knows how much it will cost to employ someone in 2 years and they are also afraid that someone in his administration will have an axe to grind on an industry and try to or have regulations changed to make it more difficult to conduct that business
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This could be said anytime. Fact is there has been no trickle-down.
 
#73
#73
VolsNSkinsFan said:
True but we now have Obamacare and the most anti-business administration we have ever seen in any of our lifetimes
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This doesn't address the need for tax breaks intended to spur business growth. They were in place for 9 years befor BO took office.
 
#74
#74
CSVol said:
This doesn't address the need for tax breaks intended to spur business growth. They were in place for 9 years befor BO took office.
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I am talking about why people are not hiring right now. I have no idea what you are talking about
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