Deconstruction - religion and politics

[AshG]

I'm curious, but how many of you have ever taken the time to pull apart what you believe and why you believe it and examine the all the pieces critically?

And for those of you who have done this, how have you handled the situations where you find you believe two diametrically opposed things?

 

[Orange defense]

I’ve looked over everything I believe in. I’ve never wavered from it.

 

[LouderVol]

I’ve looked over everything I believe in. I’ve never wavered from it.

No offence but then you haven't really looked into it. Like a relationship, there are good and bad. Things that have to be worked on or changed.

Not trying to throw mud but I doubt you got everything right the first time.

 

[LouderVol]

To the OP. I have changed any number of things in regards to my faith and my politics. I would say my politics change more than my faith, but both are living things.

I am a big believer in separation of church and state so if I cant find a good secular reason for a political change my faith wont cross over. But for the most part I find my politics changing to match my faith.

I feel that this is because there is good solid reasoning behind my faith, basically most things boil down to the Golden Rule. Which starts as a faith thing but applies just as much to secular matters. So I find my politics changing to match that.

Helps to pull away from labels, like Republican or Democrat. Gives a clearer picture of what is going on. I live in a mixed faith family, Baptist and Catholic, so separating the labels there isnt an issue for me.

 

[Orange defense]

No offence but then you haven't really looked into it. Like a relationship, there are good and bad. Things that have to be worked on or changed.

Not trying to throw mud but I doubt you got everything right the first time.

Well, for 40 years my beliefs have stayed the same, never has changed. I feel my beliefs shouldn’t change. I also believe that my beliefs needs to be worked on in storing them back to the way they are, and Trump has done that thus far. Not saying what you believe in shouldn’t change, but mine never changes. Sorry about that.

 

[Orange defense]

To the OP. I have changed any number of things in regards to my faith and my politics. I would say my politics change more than my faith, but both are living things.

I am a big believer in separation of church and state so if I cant find a good secular reason for a political change my faith wont cross over. But for the most part I find my politics changing to match my faith.

I feel that this is because there is good solid reasoning behind my faith, basically most things boil down to the Golden Rule. Which starts as a faith thing but applies just as much to secular matters. So I find my politics changing to match that.

Helps to pull away from labels, like Republican or Democrat. Gives a clearer picture of what is going on. I live in a mixed faith family, Baptist and Catholic, so separating the labels there isnt an issue for me.

This is cool to me. You’ve taken things that has to change with your faith? I think I get this of where you are going. It is so hard to have family with two different religions, but don’t let that deter you from your own beliefs. I have a different direction than you in church and stare. I’ve always believed that the United States was founded on Christian values, and that there shouldn’t be separation of church and state. That takes away God in everything. Schools are my biggest concern right now. Everything that I went through in school should come back. Prayer, reading bibles, and christian classes. I’ve believed in that for 40 years, and never have I changed. It needs to go back to the old way. This is an ex: though.

 

[Purple Tiger]

I'm curious, but how many of you have ever taken the time to pull apart what you believe and why you believe it and examine the all the pieces critically?

And for those of you who have done this, how have you handled the situations where you find you believe two diametrically opposed things?

This is a difficult chore to do by yourself because it takes courage and openness to deconstruct one's beliefs. Outside agitators (books, professors, teachers and/or peers) are necessary to force honest re-evaluation. Most seminaries/divinity schools deconstruct students' religious beliefs during the first year and try to help reassemble them in year two. To be honest, no one I know (including me) was ever reconstructed the same way they were before. In fact, most were dramatically changed.

Another problem is knowing what to read or who to listen to for expert advice. For example, if you were going to challenge your political views, I think you would need to start at Locke and Rosseau and not some pop-political stuff.

 

[Purple Tiger]

Well, for 40 years my beliefs have stayed the same, never has changed. I feel my beliefs shouldn’t change. I also believe that my beliefs needs to be worked on in storing them back to the way they are, and Trump has done that thus far. Not saying what you believe in shouldn’t change, but mine never changes. Sorry about that.

I doubt you have spent any time reading and studying anything different than your own beliefs. No one can say they are unchanged for 40 years. As a rule, most people get more conservative as time goes by.

 

[LouderVol]

Well, for 40 years my beliefs have stayed the same, never has changed. I feel my beliefs shouldn’t change. I also believe that my beliefs needs to be worked on in storing them back to the way they are, and Trump has done that thus far. Not saying what you believe in shouldn’t change, but mine never changes. Sorry about that.

You've never had to tweak anything? Never misunderstood something? Read, experienced, or done something that offered a new light? Doesnt mean you were ever wrong, just not perfect.

I am a sinner, I sin, that by definition means I need to change. Thankfully God allows/encourages that.

 

[Orange defense]

I doubt you have spent any time reading and studying anything different than your own beliefs. No one can say they are unchanged for 40 years. As a rule, most people get more conservative as time goes by.

 

[Orange defense]

I doubt you have spent any time reading and studying anything different than your own beliefs. No one can say they are unchanged for 40 years. As a rule, most people get more conservative as time goes by.

Oh yeah, I’ve spent my time reading and studying changes, but, never have I changed my beliefs. I get what you’re saying, but never changed.

 

[Orange defense]

You've never had to tweak anything? Never misunderstood something? Read, experienced, or done something that offered a new light? Doesnt mean you were ever wrong, just not perfect.

I am a sinner, I sin, that by definition means I need to change. Thankfully God allows/encourages that.

Oh ok, yes, I’ve sinned, and I know that I have. Yes, I’ve had to tweak myself in that dept. but I’ve never changed my beliefs. Never read something in a new light, because if I read something that I don’t believe in, or believe than I quit reading, listening, or walk away. Will I listened to people? Yes, but I never change.

 

[LouderVol]

This is cool to me. You’ve taken things that has to change with your faith? I think I get this of where you are going. It is so hard to have family with two different religions, but don’t let that deter you from your own beliefs. I have a different direction than you in church and stare. I’ve always believed that the United States was founded on Christian values, and that there shouldn’t be separation of church and state. That takes away God in everything. Schools are my biggest concern right now. Everything that I went through in school should come back. Prayer, reading bibles, and christian classes. I’ve believed in that for 40 years, and never have I changed. It needs to go back to the old way. This is an ex: though.

I dont think the two different faiths stunted anything. Differing viewpoints of the same thing.

I think most of, if not all, of faith/God/religion has a positive secular nature. Meaning most things that are good for God have a non God reason for also being good. Its chicken and egg to me.
So even with a faith based Constitution/government one should never justify something our government does with faith. For one it changes based on the person. 2 we were founded for all, not just Christian's. Also which version of Christianity? Wars have been faught on that. This allows the base to stay the same without being tied to a predominate faith.

I went to Catholic school until I went to UT. All it did was enforce a huge sense of irreverence on me. Of course we didnt have nuns, who I have heard actually know their shtick. So to me enforcing faith/God on people at school is the wrong place and way to do it. With the quality of teachers we have in this nation i shudder at the thought of my faith in their hands.

Being a nation for all, meaning all, is far more Christlike than a nation for Christians imo.

 

[n_huffhines]

I'm curious, but how many of you have ever taken the time to pull apart what you believe and why you believe it and examine the all the pieces critically?

And for those of you who have done this, how have you handled the situations where you find you believe two diametrically opposed things?

I was a committed conservative Republican and a very committed Mormon, and in both cases, I adopted a new ideology. I was confronted with external evidence that refuted what I wanted to believe, and I also had internal battles about what I saw as my core principles that were supposed to jive with each ideology but didn't. Examples, Republicans aren't committed to small government, quite the opposite, so move on. If God exists and is a perfect, omnipotent Father, then all he'll care about is how you treated other people. Why on earth would you need more religion than that? What kind of perfect Father would allow his children who are super nice people to be punished after this life because they lacked faith, while bad people with faith get glory? I'm not saying nobody can find convincing ways to reconcile those conflicts, but I sure can't.

My first reaction was usually to dismiss or ignore evidence or thoughts that were contradictory to my beliefs, but deep down, I just want to stand on the side of truth and that desire eventually (hopefully) overpowers whatever biases I might have on these sort of big questions.

 

[hog88]

I'm curious, but how many of you have ever taken the time to pull apart what you believe and why you believe it and examine the all the pieces critically?

And for those of you who have done this, how have you handled the situations where you find you believe two diametrically opposed things?

I have to a point, I have come to realize (to my surprise) the why behind many of my beliefs is my dad.

I've also realized some of my beliefs have changed, for example drugs. While I'm 100% against the use of street or recreational use of prescription drugs I think all drugs should be legal and over the counter. minus antibiotics. In the cases where my beliefs counter personal freedom I'm trying to default to freedom and personal responsibility over my morals.

 

[LouderVol]

Oh ok, yes, I’ve sinned, and I know that I have. Yes, I’ve had to tweak myself in that dept. but I’ve never changed my beliefs. Never read something in a new light, because if I read something that I don’t believe in, or believe than I quit reading, listening, or walk away. Will I listened to people? Yes, but I never change.

I guess I just read the OP as including minor stuff too, not just fundamental "party" shifts.

 

[AshG]

What kind of perfect Father would allow his children who are super nice people to be punished after this life because they lacked faith, while bad people with faith get glory? I'm not saying nobody can find convincing ways to reconcile those conflicts, but I sure can't.

As a recovering fundamentalist, I can definitely sympathize. One of my theologian friends (who is also a post-deconstruction minister) wrote a blog series on this this topic. I wanted to hate it at first (I mean, what good follower doesn't want to see their team rewarded and the losers punished?) but the more I read the more I realized it's what I already believed in my core. And it brought me peace.

HELL 1

 

[1972 Grad]

I was a young person for many years, and I knew that 100%. In my mind, I still see myself as a young person, however when I examine my date of birth, SS checks, Medicare card, etc. , and looked at my gray hair in the mirror, I changed my beliefs. I am now a young person trapped in an old man's body.

 

[LouderVol]

My stance on drugs went from should be illegal to shouldnt.
Pro death penalty, to anti death penalty for the most part.
Pro war to not, I wouldnt say anti war, just anti the way the US does war.
I used to be pro pure democracy, now meritocracy is about as close as i can get to a description.

In regards to Religion my biggest shift has been on the use of that word. I no longer consider myself religious, but faithful. And to me it's the sadducees and pharisees issue. I now believe my relationship with God is what is most important.

I consider myself Catholic, still big C, but I dont think me being Catholic is what will get me into heaven. One movie that had a big impact was Kingdom of Heaven, a movie on the Crusades. There were two quotes that stick out, "You would hang them (crusaders who killed peaceful muslims), for what the Pope calls them to do? ...Yes, but it is not what God, or their King asks of them."

"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacies of every denomination be called "The will of God". Holiness is in right action"....

I still go to church and believe 99% of what the Church teaches, I just dont see that part as the most important part. to me i now see that part as part of the relationship. It's one of the activities i "do" with God. I go to Church "with" Him.

Another of the big changes before this was when someone said that prayer is a conversation with God. It's a bad conversation if one side does all the talking and no listening. So i always make sure to have a quiet period in my prayer now. A place to listen to God. Definitely wasnt taught that in school or church.

 

[vols40]

Well, for 40 years my beliefs have stayed the same, never has changed. I feel my beliefs shouldn’t change. I also believe that my beliefs needs to be worked on in storing them back to the way they are, and Trump has done that thus far. Not saying what you believe in shouldn’t change, but mine never changes. Sorry about that.

Don't apologize. No need

 

[happy-go_vol]

I'm curious, but how many of you have ever taken the time to pull apart what you believe and why you believe it and examine the all the pieces critically?

And for those of you who have done this, how have you handled the situations where you find you believe two diametrically opposed things?

I've examined myself concerning this and ive wavered very little. I use the Bible as my standard and guide. Im not perfect by any means and i know where i mess up, which is frequently.

 

[happy-go_vol]

My stance on drugs went from should be illegal to shouldnt.
Pro death penalty, to anti death penalty for the most part.
Pro war to not, I wouldnt say anti war, just anti the way the US does war.
I used to be pro pure democracy, now meritocracy is about as close as i can get to a description.

In regards to Religion my biggest shift has been on the use of that word. I no longer consider myself religious, but faithful. And to me it's the sadducees and pharisees issue. I now believe my relationship with God is what is most important.

I consider myself Catholic, still big C, but I dont think me being Catholic is what will get me into heaven. One movie that had a big impact was Kingdom of Heaven, a movie on the Crusades. There were two quotes that stick out, "You would hang them (crusaders who killed peaceful muslims), for what the Pope calls them to do? ...Yes, but it is not what God, or their King asks of them."

"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacies of every denomination be called "The will of God". Holiness is in right action"....

I still go to church and believe 99% of what the Church teaches, I just dont see that part as the most important part. to me i now see that part as part of the relationship. It's one of the activities i "do" with God. I go to Church "with" Him.

Another of the big changes before this was when someone said that prayer is a conversation with God. It's a bad conversation if one side does all the talking and no listening. So i always make sure to have a quiet period in my prayer now. A place to listen to God. Definitely wasnt taught that in school or church.

That explains alot

 

[happy-go_vol]

You've never had to tweak anything? Never misunderstood something? Read, experienced, or done something that offered a new light? Doesnt mean you were ever wrong, just not perfect.

I am a sinner, I sin, that by definition means I need to change. Thankfully God allows/encourages that.

What does He encourage?

 

[Roustabout]

I'm curious, but how many of you have ever taken the time to pull apart what you believe and why you believe it and examine the all the pieces critically?

And for those of you who have done this, how have you handled the situations where you find you believe two diametrically opposed things?

I’m your huckleberry
Say when

 

[Roustabout]

No offence but then you haven't really looked into it. Like a relationship, there are good and bad. Things that have to be worked on or changed.

Not trying to throw mud but I doubt you got everything right the first time.

Ding, ding winner!!