Diana Taurasi on Pat Summitt

#51
#51
Voltopia said:
I want to argue with this, but I can't. That was as tailor-made a FF road as UT ever got, short of missing the FF in Knoxville. Gwen Jackson, Kara Lawson, Shyra Ely, Loree Moore, Ashley Robinson, Tasha Butts, and then McDaniel and I think Jackson were on the roster too. I mean, it wasn't impossible to think of UConn's roster with Turner and Strother and Battle winning, having Taurasi leading them, but Tennessee should have won that one going away. I think we outrebounded by 10-15, and adding to that (as I recall), Taurasi was playing hurt in the tournament. But they outdid us and we didn't make free throws. Just flat out beat.

And I say that meaning no disrespect to UT that year, Pat had a great team. But UConn just took that one from us.
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Shanna Zolman and Tyesha Fluker were also on that team. That was a very balanced, deep and talented team. The thing that was upsetting was that Tennessee played pretty well, but I remember UConn being lights out from deep...especially their two starting guards. Tennessee kept leaving the point guard open to cheat on Taurasi and Strother, and that girl hit what felt like every open three.

Such a disappointing way for Gwen and Kara to end their careers.
 
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#52
#52
armchair said:
because she was a tough-minded rival who was keen to beat us--and did. She had a pretty nasty attitude, which is partly what made her such a great player.
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You don't have to have a nasty attitude in order to succeed. Tamika Catchings didn't, and that's why she was one of the most beloved players ever.
 
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#53
#53
Amb3096 said:
Shanna Zolman and Tyesha Fluker were also on that team. That was a very balanced, deep and talented team. The thing that was upsetting was that Tennessee played pretty well, but I remember UConn being lights out from deep...especially their two starting guards. Tennessee kept leaving the point guard open to cheat on Taurasi and Strother, and that girl hit what felt like every open three.

Such a disappointing way for Gwen and Kara to end their careers.
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scoring and offensive efficiency became much more important, and we did not keep up. Fifteen years later and we have the very same problem!
 
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#54
#54
Amb3096 said:
Shanna Zolman and Tyesha Fluker were also on that team. That was a very balanced, deep and talented team. The thing that was upsetting was that Tennessee played pretty well, but I remember UConn being lights out from deep...especially their two starting guards. Tennessee kept leaving the point guard open to cheat on Taurasi and Strother, and that girl hit what felt like every open three.

Such a disappointing way for Gwen and Kara to end their careers.
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Agree. But as voltopia said, they just flat out beat us. I think this may have been the game that showed just how important the three pointer had become. Seems like from there on everyone wanted very good long range outside shooters at the expense of a pair of good all round guards. Now instead of two good ball handlers outside, you need a "ball handler point guard" and a shooter.
 
#55
#55
savannahfan said:
Agree. But as voltopia said, they just flat out beat us. I think this may have been the game that showed just how important the three pointer had become. Seems like from there on everyone wanted very good long range outside shooters at the expense of a pair of good all round guards. Now instead of two good ball handlers outside, you need a "ball handler point guard" and a shooter.
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I agree. Tennessee had two excellent long shooters on their team, but they've never really consistently run plays to get their shooters open. I just thought that was a very winnable game for Tennessee. Taurasi basically willed them to the title, but the freshman and the PG (Conlon...had to look that up) did a really good job understanding their roles and playing within the flow of The Diana Show.

This team is basically a good example of how a freshman heavy team can be successful with the right veteran leadership. Granted, those freshmen came back to earth once Diana graduated, but if Russell/Nared can provide that kind of leadership, then the 2017-18 team could be very good. Maybe not enough to win the NC, but they should be significantly more successful than they've been the past 2 seasons.
 
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#56
#56
Amb3096 said:
I agree. Tennessee had two excellent long shooters on their team, but they've never really consistently run plays to get their shooters open. I just thought that was a very winnable game for Tennessee. Taurasi basically willed them to the title, but the freshman and the PG (Conlon...had to look that up) did a really good job understanding their roles and playing within the flow of The Diana Show.

This team is basically a good example of how a freshman heavy team can be successful with the right veteran leadership. Granted, those freshmen came back to earth once Diana graduated, but if Russell/Nared can provide that kind of leadership, then the 2017-18 team could be very good. Maybe not enough to win the NC, but they should be significantly more successful than they've been the past 2 seasons.
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Nared is poised to have an excellent season--though it won't be as good as it would have been if DD were still with us--and Russell should be good, but we don't have a Taurasi or anyone close to it. I remember thinking before that title game started that Taurasi would surely shoot the ball a lot--and why not: she was a great shooter/scorer. But instead she ran the team and, as I recall, spent most of the game getting the ball to open teammates, and it was they who beat us with their shooting more so than Taurasi. I wouldn't expect us to replicate that UConn season--too many differences.
 
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#57
#57
armchair said:
Nared is poised to have an excellent season--though it won't be as good as it would have been if DD were still with us--and Russell should be good, but we don't have a Taurasi or anyone close to it. I remember thinking before that title game started that Taurasi would surely shoot the ball a lot--and why not: she was a great shooter/scorer. But instead she ran the team and, as I recall, spent most of the game getting the ball to open teammates, and it was they who beat us with their shooting more so than Taurasi. I wouldn't expect us to replicate that UConn season--too many differences.
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Unless Westbrook is the elite point guard/player that all the hype says she is. I hope so. I remember one time, after UConn beat UT, they asked Geno how they were able to win the game, he said,"because we have Diana Taurasi and they don't". Pat could have said the same thing when UT had Chamique and Candace. Maybe, just maybe, Evina Westbrook is that kind of player
 
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#61
#61
that's silly. there were dynasties before Tennessee, Louisiana Tech and Immaculata (sp?) come to mind. If Tenn had never been, somebody else would have before UConn made it to the top.
 
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#62
#62
gule said:
that's silly. there were dynasties before Tennessee, Louisiana Tech and Immaculata (sp?) come to mind. If Tenn had never been, somebody else would have before UConn made it to the top.
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I kinda agree but disagree. Agree with, if it wasn't Tennessee, would of been another team. Every sport has to have a great rivalry.
Where I disagree is women's basketball doesn't look like it does today without Pat Summit. Tennessee Lady Vol basketball to me is more than a dynasty .. it's the mecca of all women's basketball. The game without Pat would of still evolved, but not at the same pace.
 
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#63
#63
Amb3096 said:
Shanna Zolman and Tyesha Fluker were also on that team. That was a very balanced, deep and talented team. The thing that was upsetting was that Tennessee played pretty well, but I remember UConn being lights out from deep...especially their two starting guards. Tennessee kept leaving the point guard open to cheat on Taurasi and Strother, and that girl hit what felt like every open three.

Such a disappointing way for Gwen and Kara to end their careers.
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Tenn:
Percentages: FG-.439, FT-.579. 3-Point Goals:
7-18, .389 (G Jackson 0-2, K Lawson 3-8, L
Moore 1-1, B Jackson 3-7).

UCONN
Percentages: FG-.510, FT-.813. 3-Point Goals:
10-21, .476 (D Taurasi 4-9, M Conlon 3-5, A
Strother 3-7).

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/scores103/103098/20030408NCAAWUCONN-----0.htm
 
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#64
#64
gule said:
that's silly. there were dynasties before Tennessee, Louisiana Tech and Immaculata (sp?) come to mind. If Tenn had never been, somebody else would have before UConn made it to the top.
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Most consider the advent of Title 9 for being the most influential factor in the development of women's basketball.

Wiki has a good summary of WBB development.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_basketball

Taurasi has a lot to thank Tennessee for. Games played against Tennessee put Diana on the map and showcased her brash style and talent.
 
#65
#65
Besti said:
Most consider the advent of Title 9 for being the most influential factor in the development of women's basketball.

Wiki has a good summary of WBB development.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_basketball

Taurasi has a lot to thank Tennessee for. Games played against Tennessee put Diana on the map and showcased her brash style and talent.
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Hey Besti,

Come back over to the thread on recruiting you had some people address your comment of DeCosta being the tallest player. I would hate for you to miss it :)
 
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#66
#66
volfanIND said:
I kinda agree but disagree. Agree with, if it wasn't Tennessee, would of been another team. Every sport has to have a great rivalry.
Where I disagree is women's basketball doesn't look like it does today without Pat Summit. Tennessee Lady Vol basketball to me is more than a dynasty .. it's the mecca of all women's basketball. The game without Pat would of still evolved, but not at the same pace.
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Of course it wouldn't look the same. There is only one Pat Summitt and there are plenty of female coaches that used her as inspiration or a catalyst to begin coaching but I'm not sure she forced the sport to evolve any faster than it would have naturally. Greatness like that may affect a few and those few are likely ones who already had greatness in them but had yet to experience it, but the vast majority don't draw anything other than eventual nostalgia out of it.

Summitt raised eyebrows when she won her 3rd title. Up until that point she was right there with the LaTech's, Stanford, Immaculata's, Auburn's , & ODU's of the world. Where she really separated herself was titles 4-6. At that point she had made a real statement because no one else has more than 2... but then the drought came.

In that 10 year drought from the 98 title to the 07 title UConn went from 1 title to 5 titles and from then on they were always nipping at the heels of Tennessee. Based on all the complaining during the season most would say the game has actually evolved very little. The definition of the word evolve is: to develop gradually, especially from a simple to a more complex form. I watch A LOT of WCBB basketball games for all conferences and I really feel like the game isn't evolving very much at all. I think that is mainly because there isn't a lot of good coaching happening at any level of girls basketball. The vast majority of coaches in D1 haven't been coaching very long (most less than 10 years) and it shows in what you see on the court and I'm not even talking about disparity in talent I'm talking about just basic fundamentals.

CPS made amazing contributions to the sport but sometimes when you are at a certain level it would be like trying to drag a stubborn donkey up a hill to expect their efforts to move the rest of the sport forward. If that was the case people wouldn't be saying UConn is bad for women's basketball. The expectation would be that teams would be rising to that level far more frequently. Sometimes when you are really good, you're just really good. You don't need to see someone else do it to want it for yourself.

I suppose the truest test of whether the game has evolved would be to ask the question is there more parity today than when Summitt was in her prime? As far as I can see the sport is the same as it ever was and ever will be until more coaches give a damn. I have said it before and will say it again the stewards of the sport are the coaches. If they don't do better the games won't look better and the fan bases won't grow.
 
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#67
#67
I get the sport itself may have not have the growth of 'skill' like the men's side has seen, but I also don't believe that was CPS goal. I'm just a fan, and a male, but I think the things she did were more for the advancement for woman, and used basketball as the platform to do it. Those things, and there are more, empowering, setting standards, expectations, doing/teaching things the right way, determination. The thing that brings this all together is Women's basketball. Her teachings not just work on the court, but in life. As you stated "and there are plenty of female coaches that used her as inspiration or a catalyst to begin coaching". I might add, male coach's as well. There are female's/males a like (probably more people in the Tennessee region) that know her story, that don't care a thing about basketball, but admire, and use her as inspiration in everyday life settings. Her success and contributions brought a spotlight, but it was easier for the dominating, man-orientated sports world to see it as basketball. The ironic part is, I believe she knew this all along. Her story is so big, she's almost relatable to anybody in some way (small town, woman, sports, divorce, mother, Alzheimer's, disease, sickness, and now death)... all behind women's basketball. That's why I view it more than just a dynasty.
 
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#68
#68
volfanIND said:
I get the sport itself may have not have the growth of 'skill' like the men's side has seen, but I also don't believe that was CPS goal. I'm just a fan, and a male, but I think the things she did were more for the advancement for woman, and used basketball as the platform to do it. Those things, and there are more, empowering, setting standards, expectations, doing/teaching things the right way, determination. The thing that brings this all together is Women's basketball. Her teachings not just work on the court, but in life. As you stated "and there are plenty of female coaches that used her as inspiration or a catalyst to begin coaching". I might add, male coach's as well. There are female's/males a like (probably more people in the Tennessee region) that know her story, that don't care a thing about basketball, but admire, and use her as inspiration in everyday life settings. Her success and contributions brought a spotlight, but it was easier for the dominating, man-orientated sports world to see it as basketball. The ironic part is, I believe she knew this all along. Her story is so big, she's almost relatable to anybody in some way (small town, woman, sports, divorce, mother, Alzheimer's, disease, sickness, and now death)... all behind women's basketball. That's why I view it more than just a dynasty.
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LOVE this post!
 
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#69
#69
Love or hate Geno or Pat, Uconn or TN I think the biggest point about the evolution of WCBB and women's basketball is not the skills or the coaching or the dynasties before Pat, during Pat's career or since Pat was forced to step down with her dreadful disease. What most people really mean is the expansion of popularity and involvement that occurred in the 1995/1996 time frame. And it was a combination of factors.
1. The two games in the 1994-1995 season between TN and Uconn.
2. The 1996 Olympics in Atlanta
3. The advent of two professional leagues for WBB in the US
4. The growth of ESPN, and the expansion of cable and 24 hr. sports programming desperate for product.

In some respects both Uconn and TN happened to be 'in the right place at the right time'. And the competition between the two WCBB programs became as close to must watch TV as women's basketball has ever been. From that 1994-95 season for a decade at least one or two contests per year in WCBB broke through the wall of male dominated sports viewership. The games were always compelling contests and the stories were not limited to what happened on the court but became much bigger.

No rivalry before or since has had that same breakthrough/crossover appeal and it has tied the two programs together forever in the history of the game. It is very true that 'Geno' and 'Uconn' as concepts are completely dependent on Pat and TN, but it is equally true that 'Pat' and the 'LadyVols' would be a much less universally acknowledged concept without Geno and Uconn - each fed the others legend beyond the confines of 'women's sports'.

Pat is sorely missed.

(We as TN and Uconn fanatics hold on to our prejudices seemingly forever - the coaches and players are much wiser :), they mostly leave them at the door as they exit the locker rooms of their respective programs for the last time. Watching Lawson and Lobo work together in the studio, or DT and Catch on the NT is a pleasure, because they are all so good at what they do, and the respect they have for each other is obvious. Be nice if we could let DT's (or Geno's) statements of respect for Pat stand on their own.)

The game and the college landscape and pro landscape have certainly evolved over the intervening years since 1995 - the players skills and athleticism, the schools that take their women's team seriously, the money being spent on coaches and programs has mushroomed, and the amount of televised contests has exploded exponentially. And much of that can be attributed to both Pat and Geno and the rivalry they fostered.
 
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#71
#71
savannahfan said:
Over the years I have been privileged to watch most of the great women b-ball players on TV. For me Diana is the best of the best. Sure wish she had been a Lady Vol.
Thinking about it, she may be one of the best ever, man or woman.
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She was definately good and respected!
 
#72
#72
I remember reading somewhere that Pat looked at Taurasi to recruit but after being around her decided she was not of the character that represented the Lady Vols. I cannot remember where I read this, but if I find it, I will post a link. Pat always considered attitude along with talent.
 
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#73
#73
LVFL said:
I remember reading somewhere that Pat looked at Taurasi to recruit but after being around her decided she was not of the character that represented the Lady Vols. I cannot remember where I read this, but if I find it, I will post a link. Pat always considered attitude along with talent.
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This is what I was told at the time. Pat was right.
 
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#75
#75
Not sure if this was the article you were referring to?
http://staugustine.com/stories/040704/spo_2246713.shtml#.WWUuZRPytaQ

She got a recruiting call from Pat Summitt once, and Taurasi was so dismissive that Summitt never phoned back. She'd been to Tennessee on an AAU team trip, to an area nowhere near Knoxville, and didn't like it.

"Maybe I was just in a bad mood," Taurasi said Monday.
 
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