Different Mindset of Coaching?

[Dougie_D]

9-4 and 12-1

Those were the final records for Central Michigan and Cincinnati right before Butch Jones came.

I don't know what the roster was like but it seemed like the players were already used to WINNING anyways.

All Butch Jones did was kept the level of success where it needed to be. Similar to assistant coach filling in the spot.

I really hope he can actually progress this system and program where it needs to be. This time there was no Brian Kelly to help. It was Dooley.

Tennessee doesn't need a re-build. We need a re-birth.

 

[oregonvol]

Yeah, I think what we are seeing is that Butch Jones is a solid, but average coach. He's probably not going to overachieve. If he gets better players here, we'll win more games, but he probably isn't going to give us much of an added advantage with his coaching.

 

[KBVol]

9-4 and 12-1

Those were the final records for Central Michigan and Cincinnati right before Butch Jones came.

I don't know what the roster was like but it seemed like the players were already used to WINNING anyways.

All Butch Jones did was kept the level of success where it needed to be.

I really hope he can actually progress this system and program where it needs to be. This time there was no Brian Kelly to help. It was Dooley.

The roster was depleted, at least of upperclassmen, at Cincy after Kelly's final 12-1 year. And evidently, the younger players who were left didn't buy in to what Butch was selling in the beginning. From what I've read, those 2 factors were instrumental in leading to the 4-8 year.

But then the next year he wins 10. And the year after, they win 10 again. I'm not exactly sure what to make of it. Don't think it's as cut and dry as it appears in terms of he took over a winning team and just kept it going... the 4-8 season makes it seem more complicated than that.

Btw, if all he did was "keep the current level of success", don't undervalue that, it's not easy to do.

 

[james_govols]

Lane Kiffin took over a stock piled USC team. Look where that got him. You still have to be a good coach to maintain success.

 

[fade route]

Yeah, I think what we are seeing is that Butch Jones is a solid, but average coach. He's probably not going to overachieve. If he gets better players here, we'll win more games, but he probably isn't going to give us much of an added advantage with his coaching.

And you've made this assessment after 11 games in year 1. Amazing.

 

[oregonvol]

And you've made this assessment after 11 games in year 1. Amazing.

We're talking about his whole career. He's taken over successful teams and never quite matched their high water mark from the season before (edit: my mistake, I forgot about his last year at CMU, which was better than Kelly ever achieved). And here, he hasn't changed much from what we had last year.

You don't seem to like assessments of coaches. Maybe you should stay off this board for a couple of years, until you feel enough time has passed that you can stomach someone critiquing your guy.

 

[Fullfillmer]

9-4 and 12-1

Those were the final records for Central Michigan and Cincinnati right before Butch Jones came.

I don't know what the roster was like but it seemed like the players were already used to WINNING anyways.

All Butch Jones did was kept the level of success where it needed to be. Similar to assistant coach filling in the spot.

I really hope he can actually progress this system and program where it needs to be. This time there was no Brian Kelly to help. It was Dooley.

Tennessee doesn't need a re-build. We need a re-birth.

9-2 and 2nd

Cincinnatti's current record with largely Butch Jones recruits and using their second team quarterback most of the year - and Tennessee's 2014 recruiting classes current national ranking. He gets this class into the barn and he is on his way to re- birthing or re-building the Vols.

This recruiting class has to be job one -- far more important than anything else CBJ and staff accomplish.

 

[QVOL81]

And you've made this assessment after 11 games in year 1. Amazing.

As if that's not enough

 

[fade route]

We're talking about his whole career. He's taken over successful teams and never quite matched their high water mark from the season before. And here, he hasn't changed much from what we had last year.

You don't seem to like assessments of coaches. Maybe you should stay off this board for a couple of years, until you feel enough time has passed that you can stomach someone critiquing your guy.

The hardest job for any college football coach is following a very successful coach who leaves for another job. Just ask Zook how fun it was to follow Spurrier, or Solich how fun it was to follow Osbourne at Nebraska. Butch had to follow a very successful Kelly at both stops and after a year of implementing his system, he returned the programs to success. I have reason to believe he can do the same here. That's why calling him an average coach at this stage of his career at UT is premature and lacks sound logic. There's your analysis.

 

[fade route]

As if that's not enough

Wonderful, you're back with more brilliance. That beat down you took over your winning recruiting thread not enough for you?

 

[james_govols]

Butch's last season at Central Michigan: 10-2

Next Season: 3-9
Season after: 3-9
Followed by: 7-5
This year: 5-6

We could play statistics all day. Bottom line is we give Butch Jones reasonable time to see what he can do. I suppose we could have fired him after our first loss. Named OC as interim. Then fired him after his first loss. Then named DC interim. Then fired him.

Let's see we have 7 losses. We would be down to position coaches right now. That would be cool.

lol

 

[UTvolinBGKY]

We can set and compare numbers and who should be out coach until we are blue in the face. The fact is that Butch Jones will have a equal record and Dooley did last year. The difference is Dooley has a MUCH easier schedule, 2 emerging NFL WR/play makers, and very able college and backup NFL QB, and virtually the same pieces on D with a few exceptions. IF Dooley took THIS team and played THIS schedule, there is a good chance we would be out of the bowl picture a few weeks ago. Now I'm not saying Jones is the 2nd coming, but it is also hard to imagine Saben, Meyer (insert said coach) this year and have much more success than we did. NO coach can be judged on 1 year of work.
Our talent level this year would struggle in ACC/Big East play. That's not a knock, just the truth. I still think we will have a much better idea of Butch's coaching ability this time next year.

Fire away.

 

[oregonvol]

The hardest job for any college football coach is following a very successful coach who leaves for another job. Just ask Zook how fun it was to follow Spurrier, or Solich how fun it was to follow Osbourne at Nebraska. Butch had to follow a very successful Kelly at both stops and after a year of implementing his system, he returned the programs to success. I have reason to believe he can do the same here. That's why calling him an average coach at this stage of his career at UT is premature and lacks sound logic. There's your analysis.

Or you could ask Larry Coker. Or David Shaw.

Are you actually arguing that it is harder to come in to a program and coach it when it is already a successful program?

 

[theFallGuy]

9-4 and 12-1

Those were the final records for Central Michigan and Cincinnati right before Butch Jones came.

I don't know what the roster was like but it seemed like the players were already used to WINNING anyways.

All Butch Jones did was kept the level of success where it needed to be. Similar to assistant coach filling in the spot.

I really hope he can actually progress this system and program where it needs to be. This time there was no Brian Kelly to help. It was Dooley.

Tennessee doesn't need a re-build. We need a re-birth.

good lord make it stop

 

[fade route]

Or you could ask Larry Coker. Or David Shaw.

Are you actually arguing that it is harder to come in to a program and coach it when it is already a successful program?

Depends on the situation - there are examples on both sides of the argument. But to say Butch is an average coach at this stage is premature. I mean, what's your solution? Fire him and go after.......?

 

[oregonvol]

Depends on the situation - there are examples on both sides of the argument. But to say Butch is an average coach at this stage is premature. I mean, what's your solution? Fire him and go after.......?

Obviously, he can't be fired and I have never suggested such, despite what your army of strawmen say.

There is no "solution". But that doesn't mean you don't make honest evaluations based on the evidence before you.

 

[BeecherVol]

Tubs seems to be doing a solid job at Cincy.

 

[fade route]

Obviously, he can't be fired and I have never suggested such, despite what your army of strawmen say.

There is no "solution". But that doesn't mean you don't make honest evaluations based on the evidence before you.

I believe you're being honest, but you don't have alot of evidence to make the judgement you're making about his ability. If we have the same results next year, I will begin to agree with you.

 

[Chilmonty]

Butch's last season at Central Michigan: 10-2

Next Season: 3-9
Season after: 3-9
Followed by: 7-5
This year: 5-6

We could play statistics all day. Bottom line is we give Butch Jones reasonable time to see what he can do. I suppose we could have fired him after our first loss. Named OC as interim. Then fired him after his first loss. Then named DC interim. Then fired him.

Let's see we have 7 losses. We would be down to position coaches right now. That would be cool.

lol

Sad that roughly 40% of the posters here, would do exactly that! :banghead2:



.

 

[oregonvol]

I believe you're being honest, but you don't have alot of evidence to make the judgement you're making about his ability. If we have the same results next year, I will begin to agree with you.

Fair enough. But let's remember that 1 year was plenty of time for a majority to jump on the Dooley train and for the AD to award him a big contract extension with a buyout we will still be paying off for years to come. Lots of evaluations are made after 1 season.

 

[BigTCountry]

Give the man time. I put money on it he can change UTs record to a winning record at minimum in the next two years. I dont believe Butch Jones is the "Yes We Can" type, to then turn around and ruin it for everyone. He's much more active as a coach, and although we did lose 7 games, we clearly made some strides in some areas UTs had problems with in the past couple of years. Let him build his own team and fail before you burn his house down.

 

[BigTCountry]

2007 Alabama record 7-6 winning % .538 Independence Bowl-W W-L-T
2008 Alabama record 12-2 winning % .857 Sugar Bowl-L

ENOUGH SAID FOR ALL YOU NEGATIVE FAIR WEATHER, NEGATIVE FANS! EVEN SABAN DIDN'T HAVE AN ABOVE AVG YEAR AT FIRST.

 

[ALLVOL 4LIFE]

Bottom line is...he will get his time, and all we as fans can do is hang on for the ride! Good or Bad, only time will tell.

It can't get much worse than the past 4 games where we have been completely embarrassed. That's not Tennesse football in no way, shape, or form!

 

[fade route]

Fair enough. But let's remember that 1 year was plenty of time for a majority to jump on the Dooley train and for the AD to award him a big contract extension with a buyout we will still be paying off for years to come. Lots of evaluations are made after 1 season.

I don't think anybody's talking contract extension for Butch unless I missed something. Evaluations after year 1 are fine as long as you know what you're evaluating. Determining the limits of his coaching ability after 11 games with a brutal schedule and someone else's players with an established culture of losing is not rational. We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess.

 

[InVOLuntary]

2007 Alabama record 7-6 winning % .538 Independence Bowl-W W-L-T
2008 Alabama record 12-2 winning % .857 Sugar Bowl-L

ENOUGH SAID FOR ALL YOU NEGATIVE FAIR WEATHER, NEGATIVE FANS! EVEN SABAN DIDN'T HAVE AN ABOVE AVG YEAR AT FIRST.

So I've got you down for 12-2 next year.