Don Mahoney: most important staff hire

#26
#26
Burger said:
Yes, we will have to be a little bit quicker on the line, and we need a lot more stamina to run a up-tempo no huddle. We have the strength, and we can shed 10-15 pounds a lineman to be fine in the other department.
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even if they drop 10-15 pounds, will they be quick enough?
 
#27
#27
I think this staff is pretty decent so far.We'll see.I think letting Pittman go was a mistake IMO.Undeniable progress was shown in the run game last year.We will know pretty soon if Mahoney will work out as the line and rb's will be the same next year as last year.See if we take a step back or a step forward.
 
#28
#28
orange parmejohn said:
even if they drop 10-15 pounds, will they be quick enough?
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We have to look at it by a player by player basis. Richardson, Bullard, Stone, and James are quick enough as is.My concern is at left and right guard. Fulton needs to shed weight, as does Marcus Jackson. I haven't seen much of the other guys.
 
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#29
#29
Ohio Vol said:
For the last 12 years, UT has struggled year in and year out with every aspect of the offensive line. My own comments about the long-deposed Jimmy Ray Stephens and Greg Adkins are still all over the boards, and I believe I voiced my opposition to James Cregg and Harry Hiestand before their charges ever took the field in a game.

Living in Ohio, I see plenty of the MAC and from the rest of the teams in the region (and a couple years out of coaching also allows more free time). So I've seen a good deal of Central Michigan and Cincinnati with Don Mahoney coaching the offensive lines of each. And I have really liked what I've seen.

Reasons:
- Downfield blocking. For years we've seen potential big plays get stopped five yards downfield because the line isn't getting to the second level. CMU and Cincy both were able to consistently spring big plays by getting the line past the first level.

- Movement. The line has generally moved well enough to provide running backs with average athleticism (but good vision) the chance to make plays.

- Tenacity. I'm a proponent of "if you block the wrong guy, at least block him out of the play". If you must be wrong, be wrong at top speed and in an ill mood. CMU and Cincy were both known for this.

This stands in sharp contrast to what we've seen basically every year since 1999 or 2000. Gone will be the days of a three-step drop by necessity, or of the ol' grab-and-twist, or of whacking a DL and then standing around confused about what to do.
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Pittman did a great job here but Mahoney is also a very good coach. I wish we would have retained Pittman but realistically I wouldn't have expected CBJ not to bring Mahoney with him. I think your off on James Cregg he did wonders with absolutely nothing in his one year here. That dude can flat out coach.
 
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#31
#31
Ashevillevol said:
Hiestand was a big zone blocking guy was he not? Hope it turns out better for this guy because we all know how bad we sucked then.
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Huh? We really suck now dude! If I remember correctly, Cregg was the zone guy. Our running game was alot better the year Cregg was here than the year before he came. Hardesty ran like a beast! Crompton had a break out year, we won 7 games and were a blocked FG away from beating Bama, who was #1 at the time. Compare that to were we are now. Truth is, our run game has gone down since Cregg left. Hell, our run game improved this year, but it still sucked. Time to move on. Go Vols!!!
 
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#32
#32
Pittman took our OL from 90 yds rushing per game to 160 and allowed a league low of 8 sacks. We tried zone blocking with Hiestand and it failed miserably. Zone blocking is great but our current line isn't built for that.
 
#33
#33
namasteVOLfans said:
Imma let you finish, but we just had one of the best Vol OL of all time.
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Yea? Our run game still sucked. If your girls ex had a 2 inch tool, then you come along with your 3 inch tool, even though you girl tells you your better than her ex, it dont make you John Holmes. As fans we acted like **** starved housewives when Pittman came through with his slightly bigger run game. Time to move on people. If you love Pittman more than you love the vols, Arkansas has plenty of season tickets available. :peace2:
 
#34
#34
PrattvilleVol said:
Pittman took our OL from 90 yds rushing per game to 160 and allowed a league low of 8 sacks. We tried zone blocking with Hiestand and it failed miserably. Zone blocking is great but our current line isn't built for that.
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What about Cregg and his zone blocking that improved our run game? If your cool with 160 yards rushing a game, than we have lost sight of what winning football looks like. Pittman could not find a damn job before we hired him. Get of Pittmans nuts, or rent a room. Its starting to make me uncomfortable...
 
#35
#35
JDogInDaHouse said:
Yea? Our run game still sucked. If your girls ex had a 2 inch tool, then you come along with your 3 inch tool, even though you girl tells you your better than her ex, it dont make you John Holmes. As fans we acted like **** starved housewives when Pittman came through with his slightly bigger run game. Time to move on people. If you love Pittman more than you love the vols, Arkansas has plenty of season tickets available. :peace2:
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A 56% improvement in run production isn't "slightly bigger". I bet if your boss gave you a 56% raise you would run down the street screaming.
 
#36
#36
Ohio Vol, I am not trying to set you up with this question. But I am no expert on OL play, but I did see the improvements with Pittman. How do you think Pittman stacks up to Mahoney?
 
#37
#37
PrattvilleVol said:
A 56% improvement in run production isn't "slightly bigger". I bet if your boss gave you a 56% raise you would run down the street screaming.
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Yea, how many more games did that help us win? How many yards did we rush for against Fla, Ga, and Alabama? We padded our run stats against scrubs. You people expect Jones to scrap his offensive scheme in order to make 1 or 2 offensive lineman happy because they, like everyone, is afraid of change. Like Jones said, its all about how you embrace change.
 
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#38
#38
JeffHostetler said:
Texans are zone blocking and not hating on Arian Foster because he's one of my favorite players but the texans could put a 3rd string back and he would run for 100 yards in a game. I like the zone blocking.
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Mike Shanahan ran a zone blocking scheme in Denver for years, and it seems that his team was at or near the top of the league in rushing every year, often with less than superstar backs. Other than Terrell Davis, frankly I don't remember who any of them were.

Be prepared for complaints from opposing defenses. Zone blocking offenses are often accused of cut blocking, and borderline dirty play.
 
#39
#39
Fit the system to the players, if Tennessee's lineman can move well and zone block then ok, if they are not that kind then dont do it. Spring will show the coaches what they can and CANT do.
 
#40
#40
Ohio Vol said:
For the last 12 years, UT has struggled year in and year out with every aspect of the offensive line. My own comments about the long-deposed Jimmy Ray Stephens and Greg Adkins are still all over the boards, and I believe I voiced my opposition to James Cregg and Harry Hiestand before their charges ever took the field in a game.

Living in Ohio, I see plenty of the MAC and from the rest of the teams in the region (and a couple years out of coaching also allows more free time). So I've seen a good deal of Central Michigan and Cincinnati with Don Mahoney coaching the offensive lines of each. And I have really liked what I've seen.

Reasons:
- Downfield blocking. For years we've seen potential big plays get stopped five yards downfield because the line isn't getting to the second level. CMU and Cincy both were able to consistently spring big plays by getting the line past the first level.

- Movement. The line has generally moved well enough to provide running backs with average athleticism (but good vision) the chance to make plays.

- Tenacity. I'm a proponent of "if you block the wrong guy, at least block him out of the play". If you must be wrong, be wrong at top speed and in an ill mood. CMU and Cincy were both known for this.

This stands in sharp contrast to what we've seen basically every year since 1999 or 2000. Gone will be the days of a three-step drop by necessity, or of the ol' grab-and-twist, or of whacking a DL and then standing around confused about what to do.
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Yeah I completely agree....I hate to bring this up but look at Barrett Jones and company at Bama....second level blocking was the norm....now I agree they have the big strong fast back that makes that easier but that's where the extra yards come from!!!!
 
#41
#41
Ashevillevol said:
Hiestand was a big zone blocking guy was he not? Hope it turns out better for this guy because we all know how bad we sucked then.
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I agree the running game was bad when he was here but I bet Notre Dame is glad we didn't keep him. Makes me question if it wasn't a lot more about the players or lack of experienced players rather than the coaching?
 
#42
#42
Ohio Vol said:
For the last 12 years, UT has struggled year in and year out with every aspect of the offensive line. My own comments about the long-deposed Jimmy Ray Stephens and Greg Adkins are still all over the boards, and I believe I voiced my opposition to James Cregg and Harry Hiestand before their charges ever took the field in a game.

Living in Ohio, I see plenty of the MAC and from the rest of the teams in the region (and a couple years out of coaching also allows more free time). So I've seen a good deal of Central Michigan and Cincinnati with Don Mahoney coaching the offensive lines of each. And I have really liked what I've seen.

Reasons:
- Downfield blocking. For years we've seen potential big plays get stopped five yards downfield because the line isn't getting to the second level. CMU and Cincy both were able to consistently spring big plays by getting the line past the first level.

- Movement. The line has generally moved well enough to provide running backs with average athleticism (but good vision) the chance to make plays.

- Tenacity. I'm a proponent of "if you block the wrong guy, at least block him out of the play". If you must be wrong, be wrong at top speed and in an ill mood. CMU and Cincy were both known for this.

This stands in sharp contrast to what we've seen basically every year since 1999 or 2000. Gone will be the days of a three-step drop by necessity, or of the ol' grab-and-twist, or of whacking a DL and then standing around confused about what to do.
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Stopped reading after first sentence 12 years struggled in all aspects in offensive line? weve had some great o lines over this time and dating back to eric ainge weve given up almost the fewest sacks in the country 2 record setting years in there wtf r u talking about
 
#43
#43
PrattvilleVol said:
Pittman took our OL from 90 yds rushing per game to 160 and allowed a league low of 8 sacks. We tried zone blocking with Hiestand and it failed miserably. Zone blocking is great but our current line isn't built for that.
Click to expand...

Zone blocking was created for linemen who could not block, they just all have to step together and move in the same direction. Anyone can zone block! Zone blocking is at its best when the second level of defenders can't get a good read on their gaps, forcing them to make bad decisions. Our running game improved when 2 things happened, first Bray completed a higher percentage of his passes to outside receivers, making defenses take people out of the box and second Lane carried the ball more than Neal!
 
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#45
#45
JDogInDaHouse said:
Yea, how many more games did that help us win? How many yards did we rush for against Fla, Ga, and Alabama? We padded our run stats against scrubs. You people expect Jones to scrap his offensive scheme in order to make 1 or 2 offensive lineman happy because they, like everyone, is afraid of change. Like Jones said, its all about how you embrace change.
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You're a total douche. I never once said I didn't like CBJ and for the record I like him a lot. I'm giving Pittman the props he deserves so take your twisted conclusions and shove em dude.

"Why am I wasting my energy on anyone named Jdogindahouse" or whatever he calls himself"?
 
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#46
#46
Lynx27 said:
Zone blocking was created for linemen who could not block, they just all have to step together and move in the same direction. Anyone can zone block! Zone blocking is at its best when the second level of defenders can't get a good read on their gaps, forcing them to make bad decisions. Our running game improved when 2 things happened, first Bray completed a higher percentage of his passes to outside receivers, making defenses take people out of the box and second Lane carried the ball more than Neal!
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Good post Lynx:good!:
 
#47
#47
PrattvilleVol said:
We sucked at run blocking PERIOD, with beast lineman, until Pittman got here.
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we did not run block until Pittman got here .

The year before , the scheme featured sprint draw running with the linemen in pass blocks. This ill advised scheme was one of the big reasosn we could not run. Yeah we would get under center and try to run ...but that is all we did from under center so everybody would know it was coming.

So you can really judge the 'improvement' because there was no pure attempt at run blocking . Heinstead was asked to do something else entirely
 
#48
#48
Let's not forget that during the Heistand days, there was NO running backs coach! Then factor in an actual Running Back plus a new OL coach. You can't really determine which OL was better.
Only next season will tell, because we'll have the same RB coach.
 
#49
#49
PrattvilleVol said:
You're a total douche. I never once said I didn't like CBJ and for the record I like him a lot. I'm giving Pittman the props he deserves so take your twisted conclusions and shove em dude.

"Why am I wasting my energy on anyone named Jdogindahouse" or whatever he calls himself"?
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:shades:
 

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#50
#50
VFL1953 said:
Mike Shanahan ran a zone blocking scheme in Denver for years, and it seems that his team was at or near the top of the league in rushing every year, often with less than superstar backs. Other than Terrell Davis, frankly I don't remember who any of them were.

Be prepared for complaints from opposing defenses. Zone blocking offenses are often accused of cut blocking, and borderline dirty play.
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Clinton Portis was the only RB Denver drafted before the fourth round IIRC.

Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Davis, were all 3rd day picks or free agents.

Zone blocking is the way to go if you are short on talent up front but you have to commit to it long term.

Footwork and lateral quickness is paramount.
 
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