The Impeachment Thread

#8,727
#8,727
BowlBrother85 said:
1) It is understandable that Zelensky doesn't want to be critical of Trump, while Trump is still in office, but it doesn't matter what he says. We have a transcript of the July 25th phone call and can see what happened for ourselves.

2) Clearly, the Ukraine government knew they hadn't received the military aid. A country that size doesn't overlook $340 million, and they knew there was something that Trump wanted done.

3) The investigation into Burisma Holdings was re-opened, but that is not what Trump was asking Zelensky for. Trump wanted Zelensky to assist his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, in specifically investigating the Bidens. Trump didn't care about Ukrainian corruption. He wanted dirt on a potential opponent.

4) "Do us a favor, though..." (you left out an important word) is an indication that Trump wanted something done in exchange for the military aid - an investigation of the Bidens.

5) The Ukrainians received the money only after the whistleblower's complaint had been submitted. That put the Trump administration over a barrel. The hold had to be lifted.
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Literally every point you made is conjecture.
 
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#8,728
#8,728
BigOrangeD said:
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Uh, a whistle-blower is an anonymous source with information that comes forward, and is normally protected from people like Tucker and Trump that want that person "dealt with like we used to" because they dared to speak out against Glorious, All-Knowing and Wise Dear Leader Lord Red Hat.
 
#8,731
#8,731
zeppelin128 said:
Everyone is going to be disappointed. Nothing will come out of this that harms Biden, and the GOP Senate will never convict Trump, since they lack a spine and put party over country.
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Oh come on ... says the one who made the statement “ I’ll vote for anybody but Trump “ . I normally don’t say much when you guys bitch and moan , but there’s a couple of you who have made this statement while getting caught up in your Trump hate .
 
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#8,732
#8,732
0nelilreb said:
Oh come on ... says the one who made the statement “ I’ll vote for anybody but Trump “ . I normally don’t say much when you guys bitch and moan , but there’s a couple of you who have made this statement while getting caught up in your Trump hate .
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That has nothing to do with any kind of party. I will vote for my cat before I ever even entertain the idea of voting for Trump.
 
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#8,736
#8,736
evillawyer said:
"This was the transfer of Burisma Group's funds for lobbying activities, as investigators believe, personally to Joe Biden through a lobbying company. Funds in the amount of $900,000 were transferred to the U.S.-based company Rosemont Seneca Partners, which according to open sources, in particular, the New York Times, is affiliated with Biden. The payment reference was payment for consultative services," said Derkach.

Read that paragraph and tell me if the conclusion follows from the alleged evidence. Do I personally pay someone if I pay a company the person is, in some unspecified way, "affiliated" with?
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It’s interesting how selectively stupid you can be. At times you appear lucid, as in the above response, at others incredibly dense. At least we can confirm that you are choosing to misinterpret things Trump does because you don’t like him.
 
#8,740
#8,740
NorthDallas40 said:
He can look back and laugh as he’s re-elected for a second term. I’m gonna guess that will ease the sting 😂
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Fox News Poll: Record Support for Trump Impeachment By Dana Blanton / Fox News Published October 9, 2019

Just over half of voters want President Trump impeached and removed from office, according to a Fox News Poll released Wednesday.

A new high of 51 percent wants Trump impeached and removed from office, another 4 percent want him impeached but not removed, and 40 percent oppose impeachment altogether. In July, 42 percent favored impeachment and removal, while 5 percent said impeach but don't remove him, and 45 percent opposed impeachment.

Since July, support for impeachment increased among voters of all stripes: up 11 points among Democrats, 5 points among Republicans and 3 points among independents. Support also went up among some of Trump's key constituencies, including white evangelical Christians (+5 points), white men without a college degree (+8), and rural whites (+10).

Among voters in swing counties (where Hillary Clinton and Trump were within 10 points in 2016), support for impeachment increased to 52 percent, up from 42 percent in July.

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That is from Fox News, certainly not anti-Trump. There is no way they wanted to report these numbers. We are 13 months away from the election. A majority of Americans want Trump removed from office, and you think he is going to win? Whatever you say, buddy.
 
#8,741
#8,741
BowlBrother85 said:
Fox News Poll: Record Support for Trump Impeachment By Dana Blanton / Fox News Published October 9, 2019

Just over half of voters want President Trump impeached and removed from office, according to a Fox News Poll released Wednesday.

A new high of 51 percent wants Trump impeached and removed from office, another 4 percent want him impeached but not removed, and 40 percent oppose impeachment altogether. In July, 42 percent favored impeachment and removal, while 5 percent said impeach but don't remove him, and 45 percent opposed impeachment.

Since July, support for impeachment increased among voters of all stripes: up 11 points among Democrats, 5 points among Republicans and 3 points among independents. Support also went up among some of Trump's key constituencies, including white evangelical Christians (+5 points), white men without a college degree (+8), and rural whites (+10).

Among voters in swing counties (where Hillary Clinton and Trump were within 10 points in 2016), support for impeachment increased to 52 percent, up from 42 percent in July.

*************************

That is from Fox News, certainly not anti-Trump. There is no way they wanted to report these numbers. We are 13 months away from the election. A majority of Americans want Trump removed from office, and you think he is going to win? Whatever you say, buddy.
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People underestimated Trump before. That can not happen again, or this worthless ******* will get another four years.
 
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#8,743
#8,743
luthervol said:
Of course the voters choose. I'm still not convinced he was lawfully elected. If he was, it's even more shameful.
A better candidate is not the answer.
The repubs had 16 better candidates in the primaries and are now refusing to put up a better candidate.
The dems had a better candidate in 2016 and every dem that is currently running is a better candidate.
The problem is with the willingness to knowingly elect the worst candidate.
Trump is a once in 300 year anomaly. He should never (and will never) be accepted as a legitimate president by the majority of the American people.
The problem was and is with the people who legitimize, or even worse, support him.
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The bolded explains a lot.
 
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#8,744
#8,744
luthervol said:
I am fully aware of what is embarrassing our country, so you can rest easy on that point.

You think Trump is horrible and an embarrassment but not that much worse than other presidents and not deserving of removal from office.

I think Trump is horrendously despicable and far worse than past presidents and deserving of removal from office by any legal means available.

We're actually not that far apart, I'm just much more insightful. I'd like to think some day you'll see that, but I highly doubt it.
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Trump might be deserving of removal from office. But a corrupt system protects itself. Clinton was deserving of removal from office and we saw how that played out. But of course, you feel no outrage over that one. So it seems like your outrage is politically selective and motivated.

Truthfully, if we started digging, I have little doubt we'd find many politicians worthy of being removed from office. People on both sides have been abusing their power for decades, but most are only outraged that the "other side" is doing it. They don't seem to care their side does it as well. That seems to be where you fall. Hold the right accountable, let the left slide. You continuously find ways to defend it by talking about degrees and continuums. You're fooling yourself. Wrong is wrong, it doesn't matter the side.

As horrible and despicable as Trump is as a person, and I agree that he is, he was lawfully elected to be President. This idea that he "must" be removed is ludicrous. Whether you accept it or not, there's been an ongoing coup since he won the election. The Dems have done anything and everything to try and undo an election. Their behavior has been horrible and despicable as well, yet you're perfectly accepting of it. If you want him out of office so desperately, vote him out. It's what I've said all along. Beat him in 2020. Even though I don't like any of the candidates currently running, someone has to win. No different than 2016 when it was Hillary/Trump. Someone has to win, no matter how bad they may be. So if you want him gone, vote him out. All the left has truly done is cement a precedent of Congressional insurrection of a President, and you'd be foolish to think a future GOP controlled House won't do the same to a future Dem President.

The idea you're "insightful" is laughable. Insightful is being able to see both sides of the argument. You see only one. Not only that, but you only think of the now. You totally ignore the ramifications going forward. You cannot truly believe this ends with Trump. No, these machinations will absolutely echo into the future as each side tries to one up each other.

This whole "but Trump" argument is ridiculous. Yes, he is a horrible despicable person that should never have been President. We've had men like that before hold the office. As much as you and others want to believe, Trump is not the first. But we've never had such an eroding of government than we have now. And that is on the political parties and their petty bickering and their willing ness to do anything for power. People are being blinded by this "Trump bad" campaign and they're ignoring the overreach of people whose only true term limit is death. Congress is far more of a danger than Trump IMO. All of this talk of oversight of the President, who's keeping them in check? No one.
 
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#8,745
#8,745
zeppelin128 said:
Everyone is going to be disappointed. Nothing will come out of this that harms Biden, and the GOP Senate will never convict Trump, since they lack a spine and put party over country.
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Another instance where I agree with your post but point out that you fail to acknowledge the Dems also put party over country. Country is not a priority for either side. Why pretend that it is? Both sides are out for themselves.
 
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#8,747
#8,747
zeppelin128 said:
Uh, a whistle-blower is an anonymous source with information that comes forward, and is normally protected from people like Tucker and Trump that want that person "dealt with like we used to" because they dared to speak out against Glorious, All-Knowing and Wise Dear Leader Lord Red Hat.
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My only problem with this is it flies directly against an accused being able to face his accuser. And this isn't about Trump, it's in all cases. Who's to say these whistle-blowers aren't making **** up? How do we know they aren't trying to serve a vendetta against someone? How do we know they aren't being weaponized to serve an agenda? While I understand the importance of anonymity, there's also a danger to anonymity. False accusations can easily be lodged and ran with by the media, ruining someone, even if they are found innocent, simply because a stigma exists. It's like some falsely accused of rape. Even if cleared, no one forgets that person was accused of rape. They have to carry that. I just think there are several inherent dangers to the whole whistle-blower system we currently have, and would question it no matter who it was directed towards.
 
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#8,749
#8,749
I understand and respect (mildly) your position far more than you do mine.
Weezer said:
You continuously find ways to defend it by talking about degrees and continuums. You're fooling yourself. Wrong is wrong, it doesn't matter the side.
Of course wrong is wrong. Do you think any politician (or person) has ever or will ever be completely right? The person fooling themselves would be the one that operates from the position that everyone is equally wrong. Without continuums and degrees you're left with "since no one is 100% right and good then everyone must be equally wrong and bad."
That's ludicrous, and I think you know it.

As horrible and despicable as Trump is as a person, and I agree that he is, he was lawfully elected to be President. This idea that he "must" be removed is ludicrous. Whether you accept it or not, there's been an ongoing coup since he won the election. The Dems have done anything and everything to try and undo an election. Their behavior has been horrible and despicable as well, yet you're perfectly accepting of it. Not only do I accept it but I applaud and encourage it.

All the left has truly done is cement a precedent of Congressional insurrection of a President, and you'd be foolish to think a future GOP controlled House won't do the same to a future Dem President. LOL....The repubs started that with Clinton. There has been and will always be a portion of the population that thinks the current president is the worst ever and should be removed from office. If that portion makes up 5% or 55% of the population is the critical factor, which is why I have always maintained it's about "critical mass".

The idea you're "insightful" is laughable. Ouch Insightful is being able to see both sides of the argument. You see only one. Not only that, but you only think of the now. You totally ignore the ramifications going forward. You cannot truly believe this ends with Trump. No, these machinations will absolutely echo into the future as each side tries to one up each other.
The ramifications of the Trump fiasco will most definitely echo into the future....that was known from day one.

This whole "but Trump" argument is ridiculous. Yes, he is a horrible despicable person that should never have been President. We've had men like that before hold the office. Nope - never.
People are being blinded by this "Trump bad" campaign. People are being blinded by Trump, period. Especially the redhatters......which was always Trump's intention.
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#8,750
#8,750
zeppelin128 said:
Even if what you think about the MSM and Deep State lying is true, that doesn't exonerate or exclude the Lord Red Hat from the countless lies he spews from his idiotic, hate-filled mouth daily.
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There’s no if but I agree it happens on both sides and is wrong on both sides.
 
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