Don't Worry About the Deficit

#26
#26
milohimself said:
Yep. The dems don't have the balls to enact meaningful entitlement reforms, and the only thing I have equal faith in is that Republicans will not move to enact meaningful tax reforms. The Ryan plan includes closing loopholes to make up for lost revenue from rate deductions, yet there is nothing specific. It would be politically damaging to him and anybody who endorses his plan if they were to start singling out popular items like mortgage interest deductions, even though it would be the biggest possible sign they were actually serious about writing meaningful legislation.
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I disagree somewhat. I don't see it at all as a tax revenue problem. It's solely a spending problem, and the Republicans should be lumped right in with the Democrats for resisting meaningful spending reform.
 
#27
#27
But we do have a tax policy problem that leaks into a spending problem. The insane amounts of loopholes are mechanisms to pay back certain constituencies. Flatten the tax code and you remove a good bit of the fuel for cronyism - cronyism that also leads to favored programs.

We may not need much more tax revenue (at any given level of economic activity) but we still have a taxation problem in form.
 
#28
#28
n_huffhines said:
I disagree somewhat. I don't see it at all as a tax revenue problem. It's solely a spending problem, and the Republicans should be lumped right in with the Democrats for resisting meaningful spending reform.
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Not exactly what I'm talking about. More along the lines of spending via the tax code. It's in line with what you were saying about politicians being pro-business rather than pro-free market.
 
#29
#29
volinbham said:
But we do have a tax policy problem that leaks into a spending problem. The insane amounts of loopholes are mechanisms to pay back certain constituencies. Flatten the tax code and you remove a good bit of the fuel for cronyism - cronyism that also leads to favored programs.

We may not need much more tax revenue (at any given level of economic activity) but we still have a taxation problem in form.
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You (and baker) and I will likely disagree with what the level of tax revenue needed, but the rate of change in spending has been relatively constant over the last decade. However, with the recent deficit explosion, it's readily apparent that a steep decline in tax revenue from declining economic activity was a huge contributor.
 
#30
#30
volinbham said:
But we do have a tax policy problem that leaks into a spending problem. The insane amounts of loopholes are mechanisms to pay back certain constituencies. Flatten the tax code and you remove a good bit of the fuel for cronyism - cronyism that also leads to favored programs.

We may not need much more tax revenue (at any given level of economic activity) but we still have a taxation problem in form.
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Agreed, but I'll take it a step further and eliminate income tax altogether and then cut spending to balance the budget. If America wants what's good for her, she'll do that. Those "Draconian" cuts in tax revenue would only take us back to the levels we were on in the late 1990s. Not nearly as scary as it sounds.
 
#31
#31
politicians and voters need to look at what's happening in IL. Sign if things to come, if we dot get our sh** together
 
#32
#32
volinbham said:
Another questionable conclusion - major stretch to claim excess austerity is the cause of the fiscal holes.
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I disagree with his Europe assesment. Europe is taking the hits now, but it will be stabilized quicker. And if the Euro is strong again that will hurt us. Right now the dollar is being held up by the weak Euro.

We aren't suffering now because we are setting ourselves up for some future fail.
 
#33
#33
n_huffhines said:
Agreed, but I'll take it a step further and eliminate income tax altogether and then cut spending to balance the budget. If America wants what's good for her, she'll do that. Those "Draconian" cuts in tax revenue would only take us back to the levels we were on in the late 1990s. Not nearly as scary as it sounds.
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You can't compare the two economies though.

I'd personally like to see a VAT as the primary method of federal taxation.
 
#34
#34
milohimself said:
You can't compare the two economies though.

I'd personally like to see a VAT as the primary method of federal taxation.
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I don't think that I am comparing economies. I'm only comparing the tax revenue. We can eliminate income tax, and still collect what we collected in 1997.
 
#35
#35
It's still apples to oranges, though. What about accounting for the difference in CBI? Overall level of economic activity, which affects all tax receipts, not just income?

I'm with you in that income tax can mostly be done away with (I think there is still a role for it, but at a much, much lower flat rate for everybody above X% of the poverty line), but my reasoning is mainly because when that's the main tax mechanism, it becomes difficult to enforce and collect, and promotes evasion.
 
#36
#36
n_huffhines said:
I don't think that I am comparing economies. I'm only comparing the tax revenue. We can eliminate income tax, and still collect what we collected in 1997.
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I'm cool with this.

evens the playinfg field to a certain degree and allows people who want to save actually save.
 
#37
#37
Problem is eliminating the income tax is politically impossible, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
 
#38
#38
I would be happy with a flat 15% federal income tax and a hell of high vat tax like 15% on all goods across the board other than food and utlities etc.

This is way to actually go after people like bill gates who live on capital gains.

it also allows a middle income person who wants to save actuallt save.

the downside is it would be looked at as anti poor people even though its not.
 
#39
#39
milohimself said:
It's still apples to oranges, though. What about accounting for the difference in CBI? Overall level of economic activity, which affects all tax receipts, not just income?

I'm with you in that income tax can mostly be done away with (I think there is still a role for it, but at a much, much lower flat rate for everybody above X% of the poverty line), but my reasoning is mainly because when that's the main tax mechanism, it becomes difficult to enforce and collect, and promotes evasion.
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Yeah, all good reasons. Other than the fact that no income tax promotes a free society, my main two reasons are I don't think the government is justified in being large enough to merit an income tax, and it will improve our standard of living.
 
#40
#40
I believe most European countries (where the VAT is the primary method of taxation) have some sort of tax kickback for po' folk with the VAT.

Good opportunity to bring up my favorite mantra, ain't none of this **** happening! The current structure makes it mega-easy to write preferential treatment into the tax code, and everybody at the trough on K Street has a vested interest in keeping the structure the same. So until then, you'll see politicians battle over meaningless rates rather than structure.
 
#41
#41
n_huffhines said:
Yeah, all good reasons. Other than the fact that no income tax promotes a free society, my main two reasons are I don't think the government is justified in being large enough to merit an income tax, and it will improve our standard of living.
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I just don't think a tax code without some degree of progressiveness (read: income tax -- even flat taxes wind up being progressive) will ever be politically achievable.
 
#45
#45
NEOCON said:
Not gonna lie...I pay my fiance out each year just enough that she owes no taxes and gets the child credit for our twins. I keep my son on my taxes.


We use it to normally go on vacation.
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You finally come out, you are a socialist .

you are working the system in order for the mother of your twins not pay any taxes and get a big refund so you can take a vacation on the taxpayers dime.
 
#46
#46
ACLG calling Volham retarded, that's rich. :eek:lol:


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Like Pee Wee Herman calling Hulk Hogan a wimp!

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Egan-Jones Downgrades US To AA From AA+ - WSJ.com

NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Credit rating agency Egan Jones downgraded the United States Thursday on concern over the sustainability of public debt in the world's biggest economy.
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