Dooley screwed us so bad

#26
#26
WillieGault said:
Mike Hamilton is where it all started! He set our athletics program back 40 years! He is a nice guy and decent fund raiser but was in over his head in leading our AD.
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Very true and VN can thank Gator Doug Dickey for that, as MH was Dickey's hand picked choice as his successor.
 
#27
#27
sjt18 said:
Dooley, like Kiffin and even Fulmer before him calculated that there was not enough talent in Tennessee to justify using resource there that could bear more fruit in GA, SC, FL, and LA.

In-state recruiting will be tricky for UT until the number of good recruits justifies the resources it takes to get them vs using those resources in more talent rich states.

Be careful what you wish for. Mending those fences could cost UT talented out of state players.... and not yield enough talent to become competitive.
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Then how does the likes of USC and Alabama have the resources and time to invest in TN recruits without losing out on GA, SC, FL, LA recruits??
 
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#29
#29
VKAman said:
Did "Coach Saban" and "Coach Muschamp" not say Dooley was an excellent hire? I'll never understand the faith some here put into references from former bosses. When are they not positive?
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Interesting that out of all the people he mentioned as saying it was a good hire, from media to former Vols, you picked the ONE out of that list that could possibly further your agenda........
 
#30
#30
LaagerVol said:
Then how does the likes of USC and Alabama have the resources and time to invest in TN recruits without losing out on GA, SC, FL, LA recruits??
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They simply refine who they go after and it isn't a broad base in most years.
 
#31
#31
LaagerVol said:
Interesting that out of all the people he mentioned as saying it was a good hire, from media to former Vols, you picked the ONE out of that list that could possibly further your agenda........
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I was just pointing out that the "these people like the hire and they know more than you, so you're wrong" argument is completely idiotic and has in fact been used to support some terrible coaches.
 
#32
#32
VKAman said:
Coaches don't give a sh*t about our fanbase. Wins attract fans, and as much as you try to convince everyone otherwise, it isn't that tough to win here. The "desperate hires" are a result of a stubborn and incompetent AD.
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Yes and no. Coaches "DO" care about fanbases, here or anywhere else, especially in this day of super-remuneration of football coaches. Fans really pay the bills, along with tv packages, and television needs and wants full stadiums. Winning does attract fans, but not in every large venue or large city in the country. And desperate hires are not restricted to UT, Auburn is a good example. But unquestionably, Hamilton was totally incompetent and his former boss, Doug Dickey, was known to make desperate or questionable hires as well.
 
#33
#33
sjt18 said:
This attitude conveyed by WAY TOO MANY UT fans is part of why the national image of the fanbase is so low... which contributes to top coaching names saying "no".
If so.... you can look forward to another desperate hire when/if Jones is let go.

Like it or not, coaches don't like what they see going on in the UT fanbase. They don't like the idea of fan negativity making an already difficult recruiting situation worse.

If I am a coach considering UT, there's no way I take the job without gauging the fanbase's loyalty and patience (realism). I want a high expectation for winning. I don't want the ignorant negativity when it takes work to get there.

You are firmly among those who do not deserve a better program. Your defeatist, negative attitude deserves to be rewarded with a losing program.
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We, Vol fans, aren't any different than other SEC fan bases. Social media just makes everything easier to comment about with our up and down emotions. I'm sure Saban wasn't worried about all of the BS on bammer sites when he was approached. When we start winning , more positive remarks will be posted; but even with the success of bama lately there are still many complainer on their site for not winning every game by 50 points. Relax and we’ll all hope Butch is the man to get us back to the top of the SEC.
 
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#34
#34
thechad90000 said:
Very nice post. I think the best way to recruit in our state without having to spend many resources for minimal gain is to WIN. If Tennessee becomes dominant again, this whole idea of a kid from Tennessee going somewhere else is a joke. If you want to win the recruits of Tennessee, just win.
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Couldn't have said better.
 
#35
#35
""Dooley screwed us so bad ""

No he didn't. Kiffin screwed us so bad.

Dooley built us a nice solid foundation upon which to build.

He built us one of the top offensive lines in the country.

Mmmkay?

He's gone.
 
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#36
#36
sjt18 said:
Dooley, like Kiffin and even Fulmer before him calculated that there was not enough talent in Tennessee to justify using resource there that could bear more fruit in GA, SC, FL, and LA.

In-state recruiting will be tricky for UT until the number of good recruits justifies the resources it takes to get them vs using those resources in more talent rich states.

Be careful what you wish for. Mending those fences could cost UT talented out of state players.... and not yield enough talent to become competitive.
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I hear this a lot and also see the discussions on lack of development within the high school programs in state. In my view, you can kill two birds by having a robust camp and coaching clinic program that helps maintain relationships with coaches and identify talent early. UTK should be heavily involved in the state high school all star games etc, which would then allow resources to be better focused.
 
#37
#37
Negateer said:
""Dooley screwed us so bad ""

No he didn't. Kiffin screwed us so bad.

Dooley built us a nice solid foundation upon which to build.

He built us one of the top offensive lines in the country.

Mmmkay?

He's gone.
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Hmmmm, Kiffin had a top ten recruiting class, or close, and Dooley didn't and the solid foundation remains to be seen.
 
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#38
#38
YorkVol said:
I hear this a lot and also see the discussions on lack of development within the high school programs in state. In my view, you can kill two birds by having a robust camp and coaching clinic program that helps maintain relationships with coaches and identify talent early. UTK should be heavily involved in the state high school all star games etc, which would then allow resources to be better focused.
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I agree with you. But with that said...I think some people just don't realize all the stuff that Dooley had to do from the get go. There is soooo much time in a day to get stuff done. He needed a plan and take care of them one by one and do it well. IMO that's the way you build a good foundation. Once one part is well built you move on to the next and you can use the one you just finished to build on. Ie..our OL and running game. Last yr he said that was going to be his main focus for this yr and look how that turned out...

sjrobert said:
Hmmmm, Kiffin had a top ten recruiting class, or close, and Dooley didn't and the solid foundation remains to be seen.
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Kiffs class is pretty much non-existent. Point blank. So this comparison is tough to use. With that said...when Dooley got on campus his only QB options were 2 EE guys that hadn't been on campus the season prior. 1 kid with 2 mid major Cali school schollys, and a juco transfer that had gotten kicked out of Louisville for pot, but is the kid of a Nfl QB so a positive. That's what Dooley had to ride and hang his UT career on. Kiffin ran off all QBs on campus..Stephens and Coleman. Oh yeah told Taj Boyd to look else where too.

Now let's look at what Dooley left CBJ just at the QB position...

1) a SR QB with plenty of playing time. Someone who is thought to be nfl caliber if he were to get his head together and drop his bratty ways. May declare but CBJ could try to keep him and that's a better situation than not having a chance to convince him to stay.
2) Worley a JR That has been on campus and learning. The Gatorade National Player of the Yr. not the state of SC player of the yr but the National player of the yr. someone who schooled J Clowneys school his sr yr. may or may not be the future but has playing time and if given the nod I'm sure he'll give his all and could do well if the scheme fits him.
3) Peterman, a RS freshman and a player that had Cincy as his #2 school. So obviously CBJ is giddy to actually have him on campus.

So which foundation would you rather walk into???
 
#40
#40
I think the big thing about in-state talent is that many of these kids are Tennessee fans and have a loyalty that out of state kids might not have. You can't field a top team with just in-state talent but having several local kids on the team might help spread the Tennessee tradition through the locker room.
 
#41
#41
sjrobert said:
Hmmmm, Kiffin had a top ten recruiting class, or close, and Dooley didn't and the solid foundation remains to be seen.
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you seriously going to talk about a top 10 class that has @ 5 players left on the team and wouldn't be ranked in the top 50 if reevaluated?

Dooley didn't do a lot right, but he strengthened us in the trenches, where we lost focus many years ago. Our OL will be badass again, and our DL has some potential. I don't see our DL's going pro early in Couch and DM.
 
#44
#44
alaVOL said:
We, Vol fans, aren't any different than other SEC fan bases. Social media just makes everything easier to comment about with our up and down emotions.
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Not true. The top schools we could discuss including Bama and UF filled their stadiums when things weren't great. I don't frequent their boards so I cannot speak authoritatively on what is or is not said there. I can say for certain that lurkers on this site derive their opinions of the program in part from the negativism expressed here.
When we start winning , more positive remarks will be posted
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So basically you acknowledge that too many UT fans are fair weather fans, right?

Relax and we’ll all hope Butch is the man to get us back to the top of the SEC.
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Right. In the meantime, let's all act as if there's no better place for a recruit to be than UT. Let's express that hope and not the negative doubt that so many have already concluded as "fact".

UT needs players. It needs players if Jones is great. It needs players if Jones tanks and gets fired in two years. Let's do our part to see that the Vols get those players.
 
#45
#45
sjrobert said:
Hmmmm, Kiffin had a top ten recruiting class, or close, and Dooley didn't and the solid foundation remains to be seen.
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Dooley's recruiting classes ranked 9th, 13th, and 17th. All three avg'd around 3.4 stars according to Rivals. That is roughly the same as Fulmer avg'd. His classes just ranked higher because Rivals gave credit for big classes. Retention is much better among Dooley's recruits too. Far fewer have been booted for conduct or grades.

Kiffin's 2009 class was a complete bust. They should have been seniors this year. But none... not a single one... was a full time starter. Zach Rogers was probably the best player out of that class for UT.
 
#46
#46
ncvol17 said:
So true. Memphis doesn't think of itself as part of Tennessee. If you are in Memphis you know they call it the MIDSOUTH. That is S.Missouri/Eastern ARKansas/Northern Mississippi/Western tip of TN for those outside of Memphis. East Tennessee is foreign ground. When I went to UT friends thought I had gone out of state not going to Ole Miss.
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I'm from Memphis, lived there for 25 years and go back several times a year. You're completely wrong, people in Memphis think and know they live in Tennessee. It's about as dumb as saying people in Chattanooga think they live in Georgia or people in Johnson City think they live in Virginia.
 
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#47
#47
sjrobert said:
Yes and no. Coaches "DO" care about fanbases, here or anywhere else, especially in this day of super-remuneration of football coaches. Fans really pay the bills, along with tv packages, and television needs and wants full stadiums. Winning does attract fans, but not in every large venue or large city in the country. And desperate hires are not restricted to UT, Auburn is a good example. But unquestionably, Hamilton was totally incompetent and his former boss, Doug Dickey, was known to make desperate or questionable hires as well.
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Individual fans' opinions don't really matter at all. If you win at Tennessee, the stadium will be full and you'll be just fine.

Auburn has a system. The boosters want yes men, so they hire people who have already been there and are familiar. We have no excuse for making the hire we made.
 
#48
#48
sjt18 said:
Dooley's recruiting classes ranked 9th, 13th, and 17th. All three avg'd around 3.4 stars according to Rivals. That is roughly the same as Fulmer avg'd. His classes just ranked higher because Rivals gave credit for big classes. Retention is much better among Dooley's recruits too. Far fewer have been booted for conduct or grades.

Kiffin's 2009 class was a complete bust. They should have been seniors this year. But none... not a single one... was a full time starter. Zach Rogers was probably the best player out of that class for UT.
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Dooley's highest-ranked class was built off of Kiffin's recruits, and it went steadily downhill from there. Now we're 29th and behind Vanderbilt.

Literally any coach in the country should be able to pull top-15 classes here. Dooley was as bad at recruiting as he was at everything else.
 
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#49
#49
sjt18 said:
So basically you acknowledge that too many UT fans are fair weather fans, right?
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The vast majority of fans are fairweather fans. That's why the best teams have the biggest fanbases. It's not specific to Tennessee fans.

Right. In the meantime, let's all act as if there's no better place for a recruit to be than UT. Let's express that hope and not the negative doubt that so many have already concluded as "fact".

UT needs players. It needs players if Jones is great. It needs players if Jones tanks and gets fired in two years. Let's do our part to see that the Vols get those players.
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Telling recruits that Jones is better than Saban isn't going to make them believe it. Great players don't choose teams based on fans at all. There's no value in putting some fake smile on when our expectation should always be winning championships.
 
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