Duke

#26
#26
I think the '09 Heels were a stronger team than the '05 Heels, but the '05 team had the "star power". Remember the '09 team beat their NCG opponent Michigan State at Ford Field in December of that season by 35 points, and it wasn't even that close. I would put '09 UNC up against most of the other squads listed here, but the early '90's UNLV teams were the best of the bunch listed.

P.S. It probably goes without saying, but I hate Dook.
 
#28
#28
KingNick865 said:
I'm not even sure '05 UNC is better than '05 Illinois.

(Yes, I know they beat them, but I thought that Illinois had the better team)
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The overall talent level of the college game was at its very lowest in those last couple years before the one-year rule. Imagine the 2005 UNC team against various different of the elite teams from the 80s....and then take a stab at a couple point spreads.
 
#29
#29
JTrainDavis said:
You obviously didn't read the 'Nickname Tyler Bray ' thread. That title goes to 'Tyler the Tailor because he suits us just fine '.
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I obviously didn't. But thank you for posting this; I just laughed out loud. In the worst nickname ever department, that's right up there with this indian kid* my freshmen year at UT who called himself "HoJo" because his dad ran a hotel back in his hometown. I have a mental picture of this kid at the front steps of Hess trying to explain his terrible terrible self-given nickname to people he just met. It made you cringe. Now it makes me laugh.

*dots not feathers.
 
#30
#30
kidbourbon said:
The overall talent level of the college game was at its very lowest in those last couple years before the one-year rule. Imagine the 2005 UNC team against various different of the elite teams from the 80s....and then take a stab at a couple point spreads.
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For sure! I'm obviously a UNC homer, but look at the early to mid '80s UNC teams with varying combos of: Ford, Perkins, Worthy, Jordan, Daugherty, Kenny Smith. Houston had Olajuwon and Drexler. Even farther back to the UCLA teams. Crazy talented teams!
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#31
#31
Regulator said:
I think the '09 Heels were a stronger team than the '05 Heels, but the '05 team had the "star power". Remember the '09 team beat their NCG opponent Michigan State at Ford Field in December of that season by 35 points, and it wasn't even that close. I would put '09 UNC up against most of the other squads listed here, but the early '90's UNLV teams were the best of the bunch listed.

P.S. It probably goes without saying, but I hate Dook.
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Just to name a couple, the '92 Duke team and the '96 Kentucky team would beat the '09 Carolina team so badly the '90 title game would look like a nailbiter in comparison.
 
#32
#32
I think Baylor is one of the better teams in the country. They won't play Duke until the big dance, but it is a match up I would like to see.
 
#35
#35
hatvol96 said:
Just to name a couple, the '92 Duke team and the '96 Kentucky team would beat the '09 Carolina team so badly the '90 title game would look like a nailbiter in comparison.
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I agree with you on '96 UK.

I think you're placing that '92 Duke team on too high of a pedestal. They'd beat '09 UNC, but they wouldn't wipe the floor with them.

'92 Duke wasn't just running roughshod through their schedule and making their entire conference look like JV teams a la '96 UK (and '99 Duke). They lost games to teams far worse than '09 UNC. And they had a bunch of tight wins as well (the UK game being an obvious example...but they had several tight conference wins as well).

The '92 Duke team was great, and I'm not knocking them on the MOV point. But if you're telling me that '92 Duke is just gonna completely work over '09 UNC, then the MOV data is a highly relevant consideration, and it's leadingme to a different conclusion.
 
#36
#36
Regulator said:
For sure! I'm obviously a UNC homer, but look at the early to mid '80s UNC teams with varying combos of: Ford, Perkins, Worthy, Jordan, Daugherty, Kenny Smith. Houston had Olajuwon and Drexler. Even farther back to the UCLA teams. Crazy talented teams!
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Yeah the 1983 final four is a fine example. You had The Doctors of Dunk matched up against Phi Slamma Jamma in the one semi. Both of those teams would have annihilated '05 UNC. Wouldn't even be a competitive game.

The title game that year was obviously a complete fluke and is an entirely different discussion. So I'll set that aside.
 
#37
#37
kidbourbon said:
I agree with you on '96 UK.

I think you're placing that '92 Duke team on too high of a pedestal. They'd beat '09 UNC, but they wouldn't wipe the floor with them.

'92 Duke wasn't just running roughshod through their schedule and making their entire conference look like JV teams a la '96 UK (and '99 Duke). They lost games to teams far worse than '09 UNC. And they had a bunch of tight wins as well (the UK game being an obvious example...but they had several tight conference wins as well).

The '92 Duke team was great, and I'm not knocking them on the MOV point. But if you're telling me that '92 Duke is just gonna completely work over '09 UNC, then the MOV data is a highly relevant consideration, and it's leadingme to a different conclusion.
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Duke lost two games in '92. One to the next year's national champion and one to a Wake Forest team with some future NBA guys. Both games on the road. They demolished a team far better than the '09 Carolina squad in the finals in '92.
 
#38
#38
Remember that we are still only in early December so there is still lots of time to improve. You know that Irving, Smith, and Singler are all solid. How good this team ends up being will depend on how Plumlee, Plumlee, Kelly, Dawson, and Curry develop over the next 3-4 months. They've all shown flashes of brilliance, but will K be able to get them to all play their best ball at the same time? I think by tournament time this Duke team could be up there with some of those all-time great teams.

edit - maybe "flashes of brilliance" was too strong. They all have potential to be very solid, though.
 
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#40
#40
hatvol96 said:
Vegas was better in '90 than they were in '91. They lost a whole bunch of toughness with Scurry and Butler gone.
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I won't argue this point. I watched a lot more of the '91 team and I saw an unstoppable force of nature. I didn't think there was a chance in the world that team could lose a game. And I'm still not willing to rule out the possibility -- however slim it may be --that one of the Vegas guys might have been shaving points. The team I saw in that game didn't look like the same team I'd been following all year.

I'm not usually into conspiracy theories, but this is one I'll probably never completely rule out.
 
#41
#41
kidbourbon said:
The team I saw in that game didn't look like the same team I'd been following all year.
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That's because they finally played a team with both talent and the fortitude to take a shot from them and stay standing. Arkansas wasn't tough enough and New Mexico State and Seton Hall weren't good enough. Duke was both.
 
#42
#42
hatvol96 said:
Duke lost two games in '92. One to the next year's national champion and one to a Wake Forest team with some future NBA guys. Both games on the road. They demolished a team far better than the '09 Carolina squad in the finals in '92.
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The freshmen version of the fab 5 was far more talented than '09 UNC. Far better, they were not. I don't think that's even a close call.

It also isn't a close call whether '09 UNC was better than the Kentucky team that beats Duke in the elite eight if Pitino puts a guy on the ball on the inbounds pass.

And they demolished Indiana in the semifinal game by a whopping 3 points.
 
#43
#43
kidbourbon said:
The freshmen version of the fab 5 was far more talented than '09 UNC. Far better, they were not. I don't think that's even a close call.

It also isn't a close call whether '09 UNC was better than the Kentucky team that beats Duke in the elite eight if Pitino puts a guy on the ball on the inbounds pass.

And they demolished Indiana in the semifinal game by a whopping 3 points.
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There wasn't a day in Chris Webber, Jalen Rose, and Juwan Howard's lives after the age of 17 and before their 35th birthdays they weren't better than anyone on the '09 Carolina team at any point in their careers.

That Indiana team would have steamrolled to the national title in '09.
 
#44
#44
hatvol96 said:
There wasn't a day in Chris Webber, Jalen Rose, and Juwan Howard's lives after the age of 17 and before their 35th birthdays they weren't better than anyone on the '09 Carolina team at any point in their careers.
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I don't disagree that they were individually better. But Michigan as a team wasn't great that year. They were a 6 seed. Not sure how many games they lost, but it was probably approaching double digits.
 
#45
#45
kidbourbon said:
I don't disagree that they were individually better. But Michigan as a team wasn't great that year. They were a 6 seed. Not sure how many games they lost, but it was probably approaching double digits.
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Go back and look at the rosters in the Big Ten that year. There are multiple national champions in the last fifteen years that would have been lower than six seeds playing that schedule.
 
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