Dumbest thread of all time? Click here.

#1

daj2576

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#1
I am going to take the part of college football that I know the least about (the NCAA rules), and throw it in to one really stupid question. I hope that some of you are experts in the NCAA rule book because that would help with a definitive answer.

I read today on twitter a comment that said something to the effect of "apparently UT is going to be fielding two teams next year." It was a joking reaction to this massive class that we have coming in, and it made me laugh. Then, it made me think.

Here is my understanding. The current NCAA rules limit the number of scholarships to 85 and the SEC rules limit the number of kids you can sign in any class to 25 (plus or minus some depending upon other factors).

I know that Title IX generally requires one female sport for every male sport, and that would factor in here as well.

The question then is, are there any rules that say a school can only have one football team?

Here is why that question is interesting to me. If there is a loophole that would allow a school to field 2 football teams, You could essentially recruit 2x as many players, relegate the slower progress players to team 2 (like a JV squad), you could even schedule one game a year against your other team and avoid the expense of an OOC game. The next question is, does the NCAA require that if you have a team that they actually have to play X numbers of games? What happens if you create another team to get extra scholarships and then just have them do nothing? Or, if you have that extra team just play random games showing no conference affiliation? Who cares who they play, right? You aren't looking for this team to get bowl eligible, you just want a place to recruit as many players as possible, develop them all, and cull the good ones to put on your main team.

This is just a case of thinking totally outside of the box. I know that if it hasn't been done, there probably is a reason. But then I tell myself that it wasn't long ago that the NCAA created a rule to keep Majors from signing like 80 kids in one class (if memory serves). In other words, there is a tiny chance, minuscule, that this has never been thought of, so let's figure it out. If this isn't specifically banned, think about the benefit to a school like UT. Think about how quickly you could fill up two rosters with very good talent, even if the NCAA caught on in year 1.

This should be a fun conversation and I am completely bracing for the inevitable beating I will take for being so ignorant of the exact wording of the NCAA rules.
 
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#2
#2
I just clicked this because of all the shockingly stupid things I've read on VN , I HAD to see the dumbest thread of all time. You gave it your best but still fall short man.
 
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#4
#4
Lots of teams over sign. We will def sign more than 25 kids this year. Auburn signed 32 in 2010.

But to the point of the topic on hand:

I don't know if I could support or if a school could support 2 teams at once. lol
 
#6
#6
That's a very interesting scenario. I don't think it would be financially feasible though.
 
#7
#7
We could have a feeder program in state such as UTC.

Player A (all star) transfers to UTK from UTC.
Player A (bad link) transfers from UTK to UTC.

As long as coaches sign off on it then they will be eligible the next season right?
 
#9
#9
We could have a feeder program in state such as UTC.

Player A (all star) transfers to UTK from UTC.
Player A (bad link) transfers from UTK to UTC.

As long as coaches sign off on it then they will be eligible the next season right?

Negative. Unless special circumstances exist and the NCAA signs off on it a player transferring within the same division (FBS to FBS, division II- division II) or transfers up a division (FCS to FBS or Division II to FCS) that player must sit out one year.
 
#11
#11
We could have a feeder program in state such as UTC.

Player A (all star) transfers to UTK from UTC.
Player A (bad link) transfers from UTK to UTC.

As long as coaches sign off on it then they will be eligible the next season right?

Wow how awesome would it have been to demote Dooley to UT-Martin rather than pay his buyout. Then under OP hypothetical of playing our second team. We would have at least one guaranteed win on our schedule. Lol
 
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#12
#12
Negative. Unless special circumstances exist and the NCAA signs off on it - a player transferring within the same division (FBS to FBS, division II- division II) or transfers up a division (FCS to FBS or Division II to FCS) that player must sit out one year.

So could a school have two teams of the same sport that are in different divisions?

Doesn't the UT women's rowing team participate in the sunbelt conference? IF so, how does that work and could something similar be used here?

To me this is like the legend of Peabody v. Vanderbilt where they supposedly get around entrance requirements to Vandy by having another school in their own school. I don't know if it is true, but it is brilliant if it is.
 
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#13
#13
So could a school have two teams from the same sport that are in different divisions?

To me this is like the legend of Peabody v. Vanderbilt where they supposedly get around entrance requirements to Vandy by having another school in their own school. I don't know if it is true, but it is brilliant if it is.

I'm going to assume no but don't have anything to back that up. I like where your head is at though.
 
#16
#16
This isn't even remotely close to the "dumbest thread of all-time". The mere ability to form a coherent paragraph guarantees its in the top half in terms of intelligence.

As to the idea, you might be onto something. However, I question whether it would be a good message to send to recruits. Why would a recruit want to sign up to be on Tennessee's JV team? They'd be better off going to play at Toledo or MTSU, or some "mid-major" or high-level FCS program. And even if it's allowed, it would probably get shut down in one year, negating any benefits.

Actually, if anything, the schools that would benefit from this are probably places like Stanford and Notre Dame. Both schools have the money to afford it, and there are probably a good number of people who want the free education at one of the nation's best schools. They might be willing to play for a JV team merely for the opportunity to obtain the first-rate education.
 
#17
#17
So could a school have two teams of the same sport that are in different divisions?

Doesn't the UT women's rowing team participate in the sunbelt conference? IF so, how does that work and could something similar be used here?

To me this is like the legend of Peabody v. Vanderbilt where they supposedly get around entrance requirements to Vandy by having another school in their own school. I don't know if it is true, but it is brilliant if it is.

Several schools have sports in different conference. Conference affiliation doesn't mean anything towards the sports you can have. Rowing is in the sunbelt because not every SEC team has rowing. Just like Mizzou has wrestling in the MAC.


You can't have one football team in the SEC and one in the Sun Belt from the same school. There aren't any loopholes and rules that will allow that. Or feeder systems from smaller schools.



What you're suggesting just can't happen under NCAA rules. If schools ever come up with another governing body, then who knows.
 
#18
#18
This isn't even remotely close to the "dumbest thread of all-time". The mere ability to form a coherent paragraph guarantees its in the top half in terms of intelligence.

As to the idea, you might be onto something. However, I question whether it would be a good message to send to recruits. Why would a recruit want to sign up to be on Tennessee's JV team? They'd be better off going to play at Toledo or MTSU, or some "mid-major" or high-level FCS program. And even if it's allowed, it would probably get shut down in one year, negating any benefits.

Actually, if anything, the schools that would benefit from this are probably places like Stanford and Notre Dame. Both schools have the money to afford it, and there are probably a good number of people who want the free education at one of the nation's best schools. They might be willing to play for a JV team merely for the opportunity to obtain the first-rate education.

JV athletes don't get scholarships.
 
#19
#19
Negative. Unless special circumstances exist and the NCAA signs off on it a player transferring within the same division (FBS to FBS, division II- division II) or transfers up a division (FCS to FBS or Division II to FCS) that player must sit out one year.

Hmmm, we could pull the old switch the jerseys and say the player is sitting out a year. lol

I mean if we're going to be dirty why not be diiiiirty?

Gary Danielson: "Wow, that UT quarterback sure does look like Peyton Manning."

That's because he is Peyton!
 
#20
#20
Several schools have sports in different conference. Conference affiliation doesn't mean anything towards the sports you can have. Rowing is in the sunbelt because not every SEC team has rowing. Just like Mizzou has wrestling in the MAC.


You can't have one football team in the SEC and one in the Sun Belt from the same school. There aren't any loopholes and rules that will allow that. Or feeder systems from smaller schools.



What you're suggesting just can't happen under NCAA rules. If schools ever come up with another governing body, then who knows.

I totally believe you are correct, I just want to see the rules that say that. I can't find them, I was hoping someone could.

I hold out hope for the tiny chance that perhaps we are all assuming too much.

But why would this other team need to be in a conference at all? There still are independent teams.

And, if we aren't worried about going to a bowl, or NCAA win loss records, have them play against teams from any division or even "minor league" teams.
 
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#21
#21
This isn't even remotely close to the "dumbest thread of all-time". The mere ability to form a coherent paragraph guarantees its in the top half in terms of intelligence.

As to the idea, you might be onto something. However, I question whether it would be a good message to send to recruits. Why would a recruit want to sign up to be on Tennessee's JV team? They'd be better off going to play at Toledo or MTSU, or some "mid-major" or high-level FCS program. And even if it's allowed, it would probably get shut down in one year, negating any benefits.

Actually, if anything, the schools that would benefit from this are probably places like Stanford and Notre Dame. Both schools have the money to afford it, and there are probably a good number of people who want the free education at one of the nation's best schools. They might be willing to play for a JV team merely for the opportunity to obtain the first-rate education.

I think that all you need is one year to rebuild a roster that might be filled with questionable talent. That way other schools don't get the benefit of it because the NCAA catches on and shuts it down (you can't be penalized for breaking a rule that didn't exist, can you?) I am just looking for a jump start, just a little bit of an edge. In fact, it would be less beneficial the longer it went on as UT probably couldn't afford it as a long term solution.

Ultimately I think we agree, I just want to see the rules in black and white.
 
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#22
#22
Wow how awesome would it have been to demote Dooley to UT-Martin rather than pay his buyout. Then under OP hypothetical of playing our second team. We would have at least one guaranteed win on our schedule. Lol

I went to UT-Martin...how dare you.
 
#23
#23
I am going to take the part of college football that I know the least about (the NCAA rules), and throw it in to one really stupid question. I hope that some of you are experts in the NCAA rule book because that would help with a definitive answer.

I read today on twitter a comment that said something to the effect of "apparently UT is going to be fielding two teams next year." It was a joking reaction to this massive class that we have coming in, and it made me laugh. Then, it made me think.

Here is my understanding. The current NCAA rules limit the number of scholarships to 85 and the SEC rules limit the number of kids you can sign in any class to 25 (plus or minus some depending upon other factors).

I know that Title IX generally requires one female sport for every male sport, and that would factor in here as well.

The question then is, are there any rules that say a school can only have one football team?

Here is why that question is interesting to me. If there is a loophole that would allow a school to field 2 football teams, You could essentially recruit 2x as many players, relegate the slower progress players to team 2 (like a JV squad), you could even schedule one game a year against your other team and avoid the expense of an OOC game. The next question is, does the NCAA require that if you have a team that they actually have to play X numbers of games? What happens if you create another team to get extra scholarships and then just have them do nothing? Or, if you have that extra team just play random games showing no conference affiliation? Who cares who they play, right? You aren't looking for this team to get bowl eligible, you just want a place to recruit as many players as possible, develop them all, and cull the good ones to put on your main team.

This is just a case of thinking totally outside of the box. I know that if it hasn't been done, there probably is a reason. But then I tell myself that it wasn't long ago that the NCAA created a rule to keep Majors from signing like 80 kids in one class (if memory serves). In other words, there is a tiny chance, minuscule, that this has never been thought of, so let's figure it out. If this isn't specifically banned, think about the benefit to a school like UT. Think about how quickly you could fill up two rosters with very good talent, even if the NCAA caught on in year 1.

This should be a fun conversation and I am completely bracing for the inevitable beating I will take for being so ignorant of the exact wording of the NCAA rules.

Only 1 varsity team.

I think you can have a JV, but it isn't practical.

Who would play on our JV team? The water boys?

But I see what you are saying. A way to pull 60 kids a year.

Unfortunately it is not allowed, or practical.
 
#25
#25
You're not NOT going to click this thread with that title. Didn't even read it.

You clicked on this thread, but did not read it,...me too, I clicked on it, and saw it was too long, then, clicked off, "I am not Stupid". I know you are, but what am I, I am not Dubm, I mean dumb.
 

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