Dunkirk

[Godfatha]

Honestly though I think I would love a movie about World War I to be honest. It sometimes feels like it is the forgotten war so to speak. People make fun of the French fighting spirit should do well to study French actions at Verdun (Vous ne les laisserez pas passer, mes camarades).

I agree with you. There's plenty of story to tell there that hasn't been touched.

My grandfather fought in WW1. Gosh, just realized WW1 was going on 100 years ago.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Honestly though I think I would love a movie about World War I to be honest. It sometimes feels like it is the forgotten war so to speak. People make fun of the French fighting spirit should do well to study French actions at Verdun (Vous ne les laisserez pas passer, mes camarades).

The Great War was so horrific for the French, that I think it destroyed their will as a whole nation to fight for much of anything. I don't think they have gotten over it yet.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Perhaps. It may have had a off chance of succeeding had Hitler not involved himself with the affairs of the OKH and OKW. Personally I don't think the Wehrmacht could have completed its objectives even if everything went there way, there was no war in the West, and had the full support of the Axis puppet states, etc. The Germans just did not have the manpower to successfully occupy the Soviets at the time. The Russians would have just retreated and fortified the lines and rebuild and eventually would have pushed the Germans out just the same.



I agree the Heydrich story hopefully will be told on the big screen one day. It is a story I think Hollywood could do well with.

I started writing a post basically saying the same thing yesterday, that I accidentally lost. I have always felt it was just too much ground for the Germans to hold for long.

 

[mrorange211]

World War I is my favorite war tbh. So much change because of that event and so much blood lost. The battles were just horrific: Marne, Somme, and Verdun. I totally agree that Hollywood should focus some on the Great War---it has some great stories to be told. I mean seriously wasn't the last WWI film "Flyboys". Good lord what a pitiful movie that was.

 

[Toujours Pret]

World War I is my favorite war tbh. So much change because of that event and so much blood lost. The battles were just horrific: Marne, Somme, and Verdun. I totally agree that Hollywood should focus some on the Great War---it has some great stories to be told. I mean seriously wasn't the last WWI film "Flyboys". Good lord what a pitiful movie that was.

All The King's Men, about the Sandringham Company at Gallipoli, was a pretty neat movie. Made for TV so it won't blow you away cinematically but it was one of those small stories that make war history so fascinating.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

There is nothing extraordinary about an evacuation. As much is admitted by Churchill himself. I point you to Churchill's autobiography set, particularly the "Our Finest Hour" edition. I would much rather have an adventure about the assassination of Reyhnard Heydrich or a biopic of Otto Skorzeny, but I bet you don't know anything about those stories. Careful about calling someone ignorant about something when they have written on it.

Dunkirk is a miracle in that Hitler for the first time listened to Goering and his overestimates regarding the capabilities of the Luftwaffe. That in and of itself is the true value of Dunkirk, not the rescue of ~340,000 men, because it would ultimately doom Hitler in the Soviet Union and at home by 44/45. The value of those 340,000 men later in the war I concede, however, is a point argued by many.

IMHO it's just wrong to assess the loss of 340,000 soldiers killed or captured at Dunkirk at the end of May 1940 as less than game changing. Sure, German air superiority was not established, but 340,000 soldiers is greater than Britian's total loss of soldiers of 326,000 in ALL of the war.

Winston Churchill on June 18, 1940 a little over 2 weeks later stated "The Battle of France is over. I expect the Battle of Britain is about to begin." It was. The defeat of the Lufftwaffe by the RAF, and hence, stopping Hitler's attempt to conquer Britian, surely was aided by manpower which would not have been available had the Dunkirk evacuation failed.

In 1940, Roosevelt was still assuring Americans we would not be "sending our sons" overseas. He was on the verge of the Lend/Lease program to supply nations in defense of Democracy, and having American's escort the ships carrying these supplies. The American Congress was greatly opposed to entering the war, and many opposed the Lend/Lease, as they felt it would so antagonize Hitler he would declare war on America.

So, over a year later Japan attacks Pearl Harbor on Dec 7, 1941 in the Pacific; and Hitler declared war on the US just days later.

America had to build, train, and deploy an army to fight on TWO fronts, a world apart. Even the suggestion of building military might had been vigorously opposed before Pearl. So it was in November of 1942, eleven months after Pearl, that Operation Torch, the invasion of North Africa, became the very first US military ground offensive of WW2 against Germany. Eleven months after Hitler declared war on the United States.

Approximately two years and five months AFTER Dunkirk.

If Germany had cut off those British troops at Dunkirk from the sea at the end of May 1940 it's likely Britian would have been defeated and occupied.

This would deny the US and the Allies the capability to build airfields in Britian which served as the ONLY POSSIBLE location for the brand new American air power to bring destruction on Nazi Germany.
It would have made supplying the Allies in the northern European Theater orders of magnitude more difficult. It would have denied the Allies a mustering location and a landing across the channel at Normandy on D-Day, June 6, 1944 Four years after Dunkirk.

I'm not saying the Nazi's would not have been defeated. Russia gave more blood than is imaginable to stop them with 10,000,000 soldiers and 10,000,000 civilian casualties. That was also with Allied supplies, however limited. But the world would be totally different without the Dunkirk Evacuation and a free Britiania throughout the whole of WW2.

---------------------------

General? Reyhnard Heydrich was the head of the holocaust death camps.

Lt. Col. Otto Skorzeny did not appear on the world stage until 1943 when he grabbed Benito Mussolini from his prison on the highest peak in the Appenines; so becoming "The Most Dangerous Man in Europe".

While these two are somewhat interesting. Many holocaust movies exist. Skorzeny's feat would make (or was even the plot source) for a war thriller on the order of "Where Eagles Dare".

 

[Burhead]

World War I is my favorite war tbh. So much change because of that event and so much blood lost. The battles were just horrific: Marne, Somme, and Verdun. I totally agree that Hollywood should focus some on the Great War---it has some great stories to be told. I mean seriously wasn't the last WWI film "Flyboys". Good lord what a pitiful movie that was.

WWII and the ACW are my favorite two historical periods to study. Outside of the major events in WWI I really need to brush up on my WWI history.

General? Reyhnard Heydrich was the head of the holocaust death camps.

Lt. Col. Otto Skorzeny did not appear on the world stage until 1943 when he grabbed Benito Mussolini from his prison on the highest peak in the Appenines; so becoming "The Most Dangerous Man in Europe".

While these two are somewhat interesting. Many holocaust movies exist. Skorzeny's feat would make (or was even the plot source) for a war thriller on the order of "Where Eagles Dare".

I'm sure Toujours was referring to Heydrich's assassination by British trained, Czech paratroopers who were dropped behind enemy lines during Operation Anthropoid.

 

[Burhead]

World War I is my favorite war tbh. So much change because of that event and so much blood lost. The battles were just horrific: Marne, Somme, and Verdun. I totally agree that Hollywood should focus some on the Great War---it has some great stories to be told. I mean seriously wasn't the last WWI film "Flyboys". Good lord what a pitiful movie that was.

It is pretty crazy to think that the tactics developed during the Siege of Petersburg towards end the Civil War (1864-1865) would play a deadly role nearly 50 years later.

 

[butchna]

World War I is my favorite war tbh. So much change because of that event and so much blood lost. The battles were just horrific: Marne, Somme, and Verdun. I totally agree that Hollywood should focus some on the Great War---it has some great stories to be told. I mean seriously wasn't the last WWI film "Flyboys". Good lord what a pitiful movie that was.

A good one was The Lost Battalion with Ricky Schroder. I think it was an A&E movie...have it on DVD.

 

[butchna]

WWII and the ACW are my favorite two historical periods to study. Outside of the major events in WWI I really need to brush up on my WWI history.



I'm sure Toujours was referring to Heydrich's assassination by British trained, Czech paratroopers who were dropped behind enemy lines during Operation Anthropoid.

And then the Nazis massacred the townspeople of Lidice. All males over the age of 16 were shot. All but a handful of the women and children were shipped off to concentration camps. Pregnant women were forced to have abortions and then shipped. A few children were given to SS families but out of the remainder only 17 survived. Did pretty much the same thing to Lezaky. Not even the dead were spared. Dug up graves,removed fillings and destroyed. Rerouted the stream and then covered with topsoil and planted crops. I don't want to see that movie. :ermm:

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

And then the Nazis massacred the townspeople of Lidice. All males over the age of 16 were shot. All but a handful of the women and children were shipped off to concentration camps. Pregnant women were forced to have abortions and then shipped. A few children were given to SS families but out of the remainder only 17 survived. Did pretty much the same thing to Lezaky. Not even the dead were spared. Dug up graves,removed fillings and destroyed. Rerouted the stream and then covered with topsoil and planted crops. I don't want to see that movie. :ermm:

Me neither..good job on the historical knowledge by the way. I did not know you were a history buff...on another note, everytime I hear these stories of German and Japanese atrocities again. It makes me despise our PC/SJW dominated culture even more. There is evil in this world just waiting to be unleashed again. Our weakness is encouraging it.

 

[butchna]

Me neither..good job on the historical knowledge by the way. I did not know you were a history buff...on another note, everytime I hear these stories of German and Japanese atrocities again. It makes me despise our PC/SJW dominated culture even more. There is evil in this world just waiting to be unleashed again. Our weakness is encouraging it.

Lifelong Republican, but when Clinton wanted to intervene in the Balkans to stop the genocide, I said amen. We're the good guys, so help where you can...even if you have to mess up some bisches! :aggressive:

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Any of you guys read The First World War by Hew Strachan? I enjoyed it. It isn't a dense boring strategy tome.

 

[Godfatha]

Any of you guys read The First World War by Hew Strachan? I enjoyed it. It isn't a dense boring strategy tome.

Never have. What's the approach?

Ever read William L. Schirer's book on the Third Reich? It's a very good broad overview.

Btw I enjoy dense boring strategy tomes! If I could find a book that goes into extreme detail on the eastern front if be happy.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Never have. What's the approach?

Ever read William L. Schirer's book on the Third Reich? It's a very good broad overview.

Btw I enjoy dense boring strategy tomes! If I could find a book that goes into extreme detail on the eastern front if be happy.

I'll give you some of the professional reviews...The Great War of 1914-1818 is increasingly and accurately regarded as the defining event of the 20th century. This is quite simply the best short history of the war in print. Strachan provides a history of the war as a global conflict, waged for fundamental issues that continue to shape our values, and the way we see the world. The governments, the societies, and the people were not deluded players on a stage of shadows...Dennis Showalter.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Never have. What's the approach?

Ever read William L. Schirer's book on the Third Reich? It's a very good broad overview.

Btw I enjoy dense boring strategy tomes! If I could find a book that goes into extreme detail on the eastern front if be happy.

I don't think I have. I will go to the library and see if they have it. I know I have seen it. When I was a teen I read a lot of books on WW2. That was over 30 years ago though, so I'm having to reeducate myself on a lot of it.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Never have. What's the approach?

Ever read William L. Schirer's book on the Third Reich? It's a very good broad overview.

Btw I enjoy dense boring strategy tomes! If I could find a book that goes into extreme detail on the eastern front if be happy.

This book has some of the best pictures I have seen from WW1. A few are even in color. It is awesome seeing some of the uniforms in color.

 

[Godfatha]

I'll give you some of the professional reviews...The Great War of 1914-1818 is increasingly and accurately regarded as the defining event of the 20th century. This is quite simply the best short history of the war in print. Strachan provides a history of the war as a global conflict, waged for fundamental issues that continue to shape our values, and the way we see the world. The governments, the societies, and the people were not deluded players on a stage of shadows...Dennis Showalter.

I'll check it out. I have to admit I'm not as up on WW1 as I'd like to be. If you're interested, Dan Carlin of Hardcore History did a podcast series on WW1 that was very good.

 

[CagleMtnVol]

I don't think I have. I will go to the library and see if they have it. I know I have seen it. When I was a teen I read a lot of books on WW2. That was over 30 years ago though, so I'm having to reeducate myself on a lot of it.

If you want to read up on the US in WWII then I highly recommend the following...

The Liberation Trilogy by Rick Atkinson.

An Army at Dawn: The War in North Africa, 1942–1943 won the 2003 Pulitzer prize for History.

The book follows the early planning stages of the Allied invasion (Operation Torch) of North Africa, the landings in Casablanca, Oran, and Algiers, and finally the back and forth struggle for dominance in Tunisia. Atkinson constructs his narrative from letters, newspaper articles, and personal diaries of commanders, soldiers, and others on the ground in northern Africa. The book discusses the battlefield failings and successes of American troops and their commanders and the larger context of the burgeoning cooperation between the Allied forces in World War II

AAAD is followed by....
The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943–1944
The Guns at Last Light: The War in Western Europe, 1944–1945

 

[NochNoch]

I'll check it out. I have to admit I'm not as up on WW1 as I'd like to be. If you're interested, Dan Carlin of Hardcore History did a podcast series on WW1 that was very good.

That was better than good.

 

[mrorange211]

That was better than good.

Good god that podcast is just fantastic. Love listening to it

 

[Godfatha]

There is a new All Quiet on the Western Front coming out.

 

[mrorange211]

There is a new All Quiet on the Western Front coming out.

So good Hitler burned it.

 

[bleedorange0037]

Good god that podcast is just fantastic. Love listening to it

I haven't listened to any of the current series he's on right now about the Khans, partly because that's not one of the time periods I'm most interested in. However, once he wraps it up I may check it out. So far, I think my favorite of his podcasts was the one-off he did about the city of Münster during the Reformation. I'd never even heard any part of that story prior to his podcast on it. The WWI and Ghosts of the Ostfront are also fantastic.

 

[CagleMtnVol]

FIRST TRAILER RELEASED! And it looks awesome!


Dunkirk - Trailer 1
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-eMt3SrfFU[/youtube]