Durham investigation ends after three years of searching, $40 million spent, and nothing found

#76
#76
Best thing they can hope for is a Hunter Biden indictment in DC. Maybe the Ghost of Mayor Berry can be on the jury.
 
#77
#77
NCFisher said:
Are you really this dull and uncaring about rule of law? Have you or @MarcoVol @lawgator1 @evillawyer even once acknowledged the corruption of our most powerful letter agencies? Or was that asking too much after buying into the collusion hoax by those letter agencies, hook line & sinker?

You're so slovenly disregarding of rule of law, that you piss away your own liberty for the momentary gratification of disliking/hating Trump. Damn the mob-minded people such as yourself. I hope karma has you suffer terribly for your vicious disregard.
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I love how conspiracy theories work. If somebody finds that a conspiracy theory is bunk, the conspiracy theorists don't drop the theory; instead, they just expand it to include the debunkers. Now they're all in on it and the conspiracy is just more far reaching and deep. Happens every single time.
 
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#78
#78
evillawyer said:
I love how conspiracy theories work. If somebody finds that a conspiracy theory is bunk, the conspiracy theorists don't drop the theory; instead, they just expand it to include the debunkers. Now they're all in on it and the conspiracy is just more far reaching and deep. Happens every single time.
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Whether it be the Q crowd or the Blue Anon crowd.
 
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#79
#79
evillawyer said:
I love how conspiracy theories work. If somebody finds that a conspiracy theory is bunk, the conspiracy theorists don't drop the theory; instead, they just expand it to include the debunkers. Now they're all in on it and the conspiracy is just more far reaching and deep. Happens every single time.
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No, the conspiracy hasn't changed; we've known invalidating facts for several years now. Yesterday was a matter of whether the DC court would convict, after seeing the Sussman jury not do so and that trial's jury forewoman trial opine there were more pressing concerns besides someone lying to the FBI. Yes, really.

In your own words (and @MarcoVol ) so I don't have to range broadly for the hundredth time, on what basis do you declare DOJ/FBI's actions in the collusion hoax, not a conspiracy?
 
#80
#80
NCFisher said:
No, the conspiracy hasn't changed; we've known invalidating facts for several years now. Yesterday was a matter of whether the DC court would convict, after seeing the Sussman jury not do so and that trial's jury forewoman trial opine there were more pressing concerns besides someone lying to the FBI. Yes, really.

In your own words (and @MarcoVol ) so I don't have to range broadly for the hundredth time, on what basis do you declare DOJ/FBI's actions in the collusion hoax, not a conspiracy?
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I think part of the issue is whether the belief that there was collusion was in good faith on the part of those who pursued it.

When you take a step back and see the entire picture, i.e. the fact that intelligence showed that Russia was in fact trying to influence things via social media, then add in shady folks like Manaforte and dumber folks line Flynn finding themselves in high ranking positions within the campaign, then add in Trump's seeming admiration for Putin, is it really any wonder that folks were suspicious that there was an organized collusion going on?

In retrospect, it looks more and more like Trump and his team were simply duped into it, manipulated by Russian intelligence and Putin. We can debate the degree of their knowing what was going on. But it is beyond debate that Russia was trying to get its hooks into Trump.
 
#81
#81
tim said:
Best thing they can hope for is a Hunter Biden indictment in DC. Maybe the Ghost of Mayor Berry can be on the jury.
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The ONLY point of an indictment of Hunter Biden by this DOJ (if it even happens) would be to minimize charges and then have Papa Joe issue a pardon for ALL sins (which would include many things not mentioned.

It is ridiculous to think that this justice department would actually look into anything illegal in the first family (except to use it as leverage against Biden to keep his job or something similar).
 
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#83
#83
lawgator1 said:
I think part of the issue is whether the belief that there was collusion was in good faith on the part of those who pursued it.

When you take a step back and see the entire picture, i.e. the fact that intelligence showed that Russia was in fact trying to influence things via social media, then add in shady folks like Manaforte and dumber folks line Flynn finding themselves in high ranking positions within the campaign, then add in Trump's seeming admiration for Putin, is it really any wonder that folks were suspicious that there was an organized collusion going on?

In retrospect, it looks more and more like Trump and his team were simply duped into it, manipulated by Russian intelligence and Putin. We can debate the degree of their knowing what was going on. But it is beyond debate that Russia was trying to get its hooks into Trump.
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How is that remotely possible? Brennan warned Obama, DOJ/FBI, State in July 26, 2016 the Clinton campaign was scheming to tie Trump to Russia to deflect from her email scandal. Carter Page was the October 2016 FISA gateway for them to conduct two-hop investigations into everyone in the campaign and administration. Not only did CIA expressly tell FBI that Page was a long-standing CHS, Page had assisted FBI with prosecuting Russian nationals in 2013. Yet, maligning him, ruining his business, reputation, and making him target of death threats wasn't enough; they had to falsify FISA applications. They blew past every cautionary flag, and knew in Jan 2017 the dossier was propaganda. Russian propaganda. The investigation into the Trump campaign should have ended right there, and Mueller should have never been appointed in May 2017 since a SC is not needed to investigate Russian nationals.

But they pressed on despite knowing they'd no predicate except their expressed distaste and/or outright hatred of a Trump presidency. We see this in the disgraced senior officials who were forced out of the bureau for bias, perjury, illegal leaking, and usurpation of DOJ authority. We see it in the glaring omissions of exculpatory evidence re: Pappadopoulos, Page, Flynn, etc.

Let's take two of your examples. Manafort and C. Kilimnik were trusted operators for the Obama WH and U.S. government a decade prior; they went to great lengths to protect Kilimnik as a source and facilitator. But when Manafort become part of the campaign, suddenly he's a Russian colluder and Kilimnik is painted as a Russian intel officer - WTF? Comey and Mueller both knew better but emphasized the 'Russiaaaaaahh!' while obscuring everything else about them that said "nope, not Russia". They repeated this pattern over and over again. If a contact had beluga caviar for brunch, never mind they had decades involvement with Western intel; ignore that and go with the Russian fish eggs.

It's why IG Horowitz, FISC judge James Boasberg, AG Barr, and anyone concerned with the law and agency corruption have commented forcefully regarding the pattern, noting there is no explanation for these probes malfeasance and malevolence, given with the highest visibility possible from senior-most positions. It's why AGs Yates and Rosenstein say they would not have signed off on the FISA applications if aware of FBI's bad faith and illegality.

Russians didn't dupe or manipulate them; American agencies with agenda decided Trump was unacceptable and they would "stop it" and when they didn't, they reverted to the "insurance policy".

How was Russian "trying to get it's hooks into Trump" and why, if they actually thought that, did the Obama admin not give Trump a defensive briefing? Flynn's not a "dumb" guy, yet Comey thought "hey, let's NOT do what is customary and set up a meeting with Flynn and legal reps, let's DO show up as common friends and try to entrap". Flynn was financially ruined after serving the country for decades at a high level, by going after his family and disregarding agents telling Comey they guy made no attempt to mislead.

This is why I wish the same rogue, bureaucratic harm fall on people who won't see past Trump to the real danger. It isn't Russia, not China - and certainly not Trump - but our own corrupt, lawless bureaucracy. If they can do this to a president and damn near get him, and suffer no consequences nor be accountable to anyone, then everyone's life and liberty is subject to a Kafkaesque whim of the state. Some people have to be eaten by the lion to stop associating it with their house cat.
 
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#85
#85
NCFisher said:
How is that remotely possible? Brennan warned Obama, DOJ/FBI, State in July 26, 2016 the Clinton campaign was scheming to tie Trump to Russia to deflect from her email scandal. Carter Page was the October 2016 FISA gateway for them to conduct two-hop investigations into everyone in the campaign and administration. Not only did CIA expressly tell FBI that Page was a long-standing CHS, Page had assisted FBI with prosecuting Russian nationals in 2013. Yet, maligning him, ruining his business, reputation, and making him target of death threats wasn't enough; they had to falsify FISA applications. They blew past every cautionary flag, and knew in Jan 2017 the dossier was propaganda. Russian propaganda. The investigation into the Trump campaign should have ended right there, and Mueller should have never been appointed in May 2017 since a SC is not needed to investigate Russian nationals.

But they pressed on despite knowing they'd no predicate except their expressed distaste and/or outright hatred of a Trump presidency. We see this in the disgraced senior officials who were forced out of the bureau for bias, perjury, illegal leaking, and usurpation of DOJ authority. We see it in the glaring omissions of exculpatory evidence re: Pappadopoulos, Page, Flynn, etc.

Let's take two of your examples. Manafort and C. Kilimnik were trusted operators for the Obama WH and U.S. government a decade prior; they went to great lengths to protect Kilimnik as a source and facilitator. But when Manafort become part of the campaign, suddenly he's a Russian colluder and Kilimnik is painted as a Russian intel officer - WTF? Comey and Mueller both knew better but emphasized the 'Russiaaaaaahh!' while obscuring everything else about them that said "nope, not Russia". They repeated this pattern over and over again. If a contact had beluga caviar for brunch, never mind they had decades involvement with Western intel; ignore that and go with the Russian fish eggs.

It's why IG Horowitz, FISC judge James Boasberg, AG Barr, and anyone concerned with the law and agency corruption have commented forcefully regarding the pattern, noting there is no explanation for these probes malfeasance and malevolence, given with the highest visibility possible from senior-most positions. It's why AGs Yates and Rosenstein say they would not have signed off on the FISA applications if aware of FBI's bad faith and illegality.

Russians didn't dupe or manipulate them; American agencies with agenda decided Trump was unacceptable and they would "stop it" and when they didn't, they reverted to the "insurance policy".

How was Russian "trying to get it's hooks into Trump" and why, if they actually thought that, did the Obama admin not give Trump a defensive briefing? Flynn's not a "dumb" guy, yet Comey thought "hey, let's NOT do what is customary and set up a meeting with Flynn and legal reps, let's DO show up as common friends and try to entrap". Flynn was financially ruined after serving the country for decades at a high level, by going after his family and disregarding agents telling Comey they guy made no attempt to mislead.

This is why I wish the same rogue, bureaucratic harm fall on people who won't see past Trump to the real danger. It isn't Russia, not China - and certainly not Trump - but our own corrupt, lawless bureaucracy. If they can do this to a president and damn near get him, and suffer no consequences nor be accountable to anyone, then everyone's life and liberty is subject to a Kafkaesque whim of the state. Some people have to be eaten by the lion to stop associating it with their house cat.
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Consider:

1) regardless of actual knowing collusion Russia interfered to help Trump;

2) Republican support for Ukraine is being undermined. By Russia;

3) Trump to this day refuses to unabashedly criticize Putin's invasion of Ukraine;

4) Russia seeks to influence our elections even now, in an effort to get Republicans elected to have a more pro Russian US government, or at least one that will not resist them.
 
#86
#86
lawgator1 said:
Consider:

1) regardless of actual knowing collusion Russia interfered to help Trump;

2) Republican support for Ukraine is being undermined. By Russia;

3) Trump to this day refuses to unabashedly criticize Putin's invasion of Ukraine;

4) Russia seeks to influence our elections even now, in an effort to get Republicans elected to have a more pro Russian US government, or at least one that will not resist them.
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What is up with this constant Russia BS narrative? For what the MSM< has said for 6 years?

Did you have a problem with Hills Red Button or Obama's "Flexibility" comments?
Why did Putin think he could invade Ukraine atp is much more appropriate.
 
#87
#87
Orangeburst said:
What is up with this constant Russia BS narrative? For what the MSM< has said for 6 years?

Did you have a problem with Hills Red Button or Obama's "Flexibility" comments?
Why did Putin think he could invade Ukraine atp is much more appropriate.
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He miscalculated, pure and simple. He regrets now having waited past 2020, that's for sure. And that's why he is actively promoting Republicans now, to manipulate them.
 
#88
#88
lawgator1 said:
He miscalculated, pure and simple. He regrets now having waited past 2020, that's for sure. And that's why he is actively promoting Republicans now, to manipulate them.
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All conjecture based on your biased and propagandized fed opinion.
We all can play hypotheticals..I prefer to deal with reality
 
#89
#89
Orangeburst said:
All conjecture based on your biased and propagandized fed opinion.
We all can play hypotheticals..I prefer to deal with reality
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Please. It's blatantly obvious Putin would have been far better off invading Ukraine while Trump was in office.
 
#90
#90
lawgator1 said:
Please. It's blatantly obvious Putin would have been far better off invading Ukraine while Trump was in office.
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Please? This just fits what I said before. You need to step back from our hypothetical absolutisms.
Not even worth discussing as we have this versus reality
 
#91
#91
Orangeburst said:
Please? This just fits what I said before. You need to step back from our hypothetical absolutisms.
Not even worth discussing as we have this versus reality
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Of course it's worth discussing. The World cannot afford another calamitous Trump presidency.
 
#93
#93
lawgator1 said:
Of course it's worth discussing. The World cannot afford another calamitous Trump presidency.
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Dang..such hyperbole. And frankly lies.
If Trump was President, we would have a prosperous non recessionary economy, secure border, with $2.00 gas and 3% inflation,..Hypothetically of course using your metric.
 
#96
#96
newyorkvol said:
I think it’s just hard to square the narrative that Trump was/is Putin’s puppet, but waited til tough guy Joe was in office to invade Ukraine. It defies logic.
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That assumes Putin knew back in 2019 how things would be in 2022.
 
#98
#98
Orangeburst said:
Are you just trolling now?
You make a bag of popcorn assumptions..frankly that are just guesses.

How bout facing FACTS? Or is that too much?
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I cited facts. You just don't like them.

"I don't see why it would be."

Taking Putin's word for it over every intelligence agency was just appalling. And tells you all you need to know about Trump.
 
#99
#99
lawgator1 said:
I cited facts. You just don't like them.

"I don't see why it would be."

Taking Putin's word for it over every intelligence agency was just appalling. And tells you all you need to know about Trump.
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Facts? What facts
 
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