Ed Orgeron & wife Kelly divorcing

[butchna]

But it is future earnings. I fail to see how unearned income in a contract is an "asset" in the same mold that an annuity, lottery earnings, an inheritance, etc. would be.

It’s part of your net value. Yes you fail.

 

[05_never_again]

It’s part of your net value. Yes you fail.

Could I sell that contract to someone for money? You can an annuity, inheritance, lottery money, etc.

 

[butchna]

Could I sell that contract to someone for money? You can an annuity, inheritance, lottery money, etc.

You may interest somebody in fronting cash for what you will earn on a multimillion contract...minus the settlement owed to a spouse. You’d take a bath so I’m not sure why you’d do it.

 

[OldandStillaVol]

Could I sell that contract to someone for money? You can an annuity, inheritance, lottery money, etc.

Don’t insurance companies do this fairly routinely? - i.e. look at a contract over an extended period, say 5 years, and calculate a present value to that contract by making probability estimates that Ed is still coaching under this contract at the end of 5 years?

One can argue the assumptions that are made for those estimates but Ed’s lawyers would have a hard time arguing that the present value = 0.

 

[butchna]

Don’t insurance companies do this fairly routinely? - i.e. look at a contract over an extended period, say 5 years, and calculate a present value to that contract by making probability estimates that Ed is still coaching under this contract at the end of 5 years?

One can argue the assumptions that are made for those estimates but Ed’s lawyers would have a hard time arguing that the present value = 0.

If he continues to be successful, he’ll get a hefty extension...which she has no claim to. THAT is “future earnings”. That’s why sports figures and entertainers pay out big in lump settlements to get it over with. Maybe she’ll settle for less and give him a break? Wouldn’t wager on it.

 

[OldandStillaVol]

If he continues to be successful, he’ll get a hefty extension...which she has no claim to. THAT is “future earnings”. That’s why sports figures and entertainers pay out big in lump settlements to get it over with. Maybe she’ll settle for less and give him a break? Wouldn’t wager on it.

Yes, that was my experience in my divorce with much less money on the table. I had company stock options that could be exercised several years in the future. They were contingent on my still being employed at that time. I told my lawyer, “I could quit before then or those options could be worthless if the stock dropped”. My lawyer told me that wouldn’t fly and that it was better to propose a value to them and pay my ex half of that. Although it was painful, in hindsight, she was right. If Ed is wise, he’ll do the same.

 

[butchna]

Yes, that was my experience in my divorce with much less money on the table. I had company stock options that could be exercised several years in the future. They were contingent on my still being employed at that time. I told my lawyer, “I could quit before then or those options could be worthless if the stock dropped”. My lawyer told me that wouldn’t fly and that it was better to propose a value to them and pay my ex half of that. Although it was painful, in hindsight, she was right. If Ed is wise, he’ll do the same.

My wife had to pay her ex off with 401k and annuities for his half of the house. He never paid a dime towards the mortgage and definitely nothing towards a 401k. Since he’s a self employed massage therapist, he claimed his business was only worth $5000 dollars even tho he’d recently purchased cryo tanks...with her American Express. It’s all about how much you’re willing to pay someone to go away. Like you said, Orgeron’s got more to pay.

 

[Wireless1]

My wife had to pay her ex off with 401k and annuities for his half of the house. He never paid a dime towards the mortgage and definitely nothing towards a 401k. Since he’s a self employed massage therapist, he claimed his business was only worth $5000 dollars even tho he’d recently purchased cryo tanks...with her American Express. It’s all about how much you’re willing to pay someone to go away. Like you said, Orgeron’s got more to pay.

And the longer you fight, the more you pay the leeches.

 

[05_never_again]

Yes, that was my experience in my divorce with much less money on the table. I had company stock options that could be exercised several years in the future. They were contingent on my still being employed at that time. I told my lawyer, “I could quit before then or those options could be worthless if the stock dropped”. My lawyer told me that wouldn’t fly and that it was better to propose a value to them and pay my ex half of that. Although it was painful, in hindsight, she was right. If Ed is wise, he’ll do the same.

I know you've personally experienced something like this and I haven't, but isn't the stock option situation a little bit different because presumably those options have a current value (market price) today? You could go to a market right now, sell them for the going price, and collect the cash. Can Coach O do that with his employment contract?

Sure, an insurance company could estimate it's present value (presuming Coach O eventually earns all the money) as you said, or you could use it as collateral for a loan, but there's no way to actually realize the future value of that contract today. Stock options are different - those would have had a market value today that could be realized.

 

[Wireless1]

He is suing her for divorce. Either she has gone off the deep end and won't care what she's offered as long as she gets her "fix," or he has something on the side that he's afraid to lose and won't care. The settlement will tell us which one is the case, if we ever hear the settlement.

 

[LouderVol]

My wife had to pay her ex off with 401k and annuities for his half of the house. He never paid a dime towards the mortgage and definitely nothing towards a 401k. Since he’s a self employed massage therapist, he claimed his business was only worth $5000 dollars even tho he’d recently purchased cryo tanks...with her American Express. It’s all about how much you’re willing to pay someone to go away. Like you said, Orgeron’s got more to pay.

What happens to the payments to her based on the contract if he gets fired for cause? When his checks stop, do hers? Or is she still owed her half even though O doesnt have it?

 

[butchna]

What happens to the payments to her based on the contract if he gets fired for cause? When his checks stop, do hers? Or is she still owed her half even though O doesnt have it?

There won’t be payments. This is done with ONE settlement. And this “for cause” thing? It’s LSU folks! If Will Wade’s drawing paychecks, WTH is Ogre going to do?

 

[LouderVol]

There won’t be payments. This is done with ONE settlement. And this “for cause” thing? It’s LSU folks! If Will Wade’s drawing paychecks, WTH is Ogre going to do?

I was thinking beat up a booster or admin on a red bull fueled bender.

 

[butchna]

I was thinking beat up a booster or admin on a red bull fueled bender.

Said booster or admin disappears in the night. Issue gone.

 

[OldandStillaVol]

Sure, an insurance company could estimate it's present value (presuming Coach O eventually earns all the money) as you said, or you could use it as collateral for a loan, but there's no way to actually realize the future value of that contract today. Stock options are different - those would have had a market value today that could be realized.

 

[OldandStillaVol]

Options are commonly traded, correct. But things that aren’t commonly traded also have value. I’ll let the actuaries on here give more details but I suspect this case is pretty common. They would look at Ed’s past coaching record, LSU past football records, Ed’s age and health condition, and the contract, and assign it an expected value - they wouldn’t have to even assume he completes the years of the contract. Different actuaries could come up with different values.
But no one would say it has zero value today.

 

[johnboyhunter]

That’s terrible. You would think that this would be the high point of Coach O’s career and that it would be a time to celebrate all their achievements. I remember seeing them on Gameday and thinking that they seemed like a happy couple. I hope Coach O will be ok from a sobriety standpoint, I know he’s had his issues in the past.

i thought he only drank Red Bull

 

[RDU VOL#14]

i thought he only drank Red Bull

I think that’s now part of his regimen . Not positive though.

 

[bag12day]

I know you've personally experienced something like this and I haven't, but isn't the stock option situation a little bit different because presumably those options have a current value (market price) today? You could go to a market right now, sell them for the going price, and collect the cash. Can Coach O do that with his employment contract?

Sure, an insurance company could estimate it's present value (presuming Coach O eventually earns all the money) as you said, or you could use it as collateral for a loan, but there's no way to actually realize the future value of that contract today. Stock options are different - those would have had a market value today that could be realized.

You're killing me smalls! As stated previously you are trying to apply logic to a legal preceding that is anything but logical. Just take the advice thrown in your direction, she will get whatever future success Coach O has whether or not you agree, unless she doesn't want it.
A couple stories to help you understand.
Guy I used to fish with started a steel fabrication company out of nothing in a mobile home for Nuclear, vessel, and aircraft industries and slowly he grew it into a Multi Millions $ a year business. His wife was a flight attend and she supported the household and worked a lot during the lean years as he grew the business. It took 5 + years to go from red to black. They divorced due to her infidelity on the road about the time it took to make a profitable business. As the business grew and with Multiple lawyers my buddy would have to write checks because some judge said she suffered sooooo much during the poor years she deserved to share in the success too.

A family friend (female BTW) was married young to a guy whose lifetime earnings as a student/research assistant would amount to a years salary flipping burgers at MCDons. She worked a couple of grueling jobs at a time for over 10 years putting him through undergrad Pre Med then Med school and paid for quite a bit of the tuition. and when he got a residency at some prestigious hospital (boston MC I believe) She gave up her careers to be suzy homemaker and move to Boston. About 2 months before the end of his residency he filed for divorce. She will never have to work again because of what she gave up allowing him to gain a successful career with very little debt and she has gotten 2 or more lifestyle adjustments as his earning rocketed as a thorasic(sp?) surgeon. Now she works for a non profit doing something she loves for a little money but on a Drs Ex wife salary and she earned every penny!

Same logic applies with coach she stuck by him during the lean times and gave up her career ??? to be Mrs Coach O and therefore those contributions to his current and future success will be paid for by Coach O. The same way if he were to be fired he could file for reduction of his alimony on the grounds he couldn't afford it since he's now a high school coach. You have a lot to learn or unlearn about the divorce legal process.

 

[bag12day]

I was thinking beat up a booster or admin on a red bull fueled bender.

Nope some other booster or admin would say that person had it coming and testify that they swung a Coach first. It is Louisiana after all where Edwards was voted Governor again after a felony conviction for political stupidity ( yes its an actual felony charge in LA lol).

 

[05_never_again]

You're killing me smalls! As stated previously you are trying to apply logic to a legal preceding that is anything but logical. Just take the advice thrown in your direction, she will get whatever future success Coach O has whether or not you agree, unless she doesn't want it.
A couple stories to help you understand.
Guy I used to fish with started a steel fabrication company out of nothing in a mobile home for Nuclear, vessel, and aircraft industries and slowly he grew it into a Multi Millions $ a year business. His wife was a flight attend and she supported the household and worked a lot during the lean years as he grew the business. It took 5 + years to go from red to black. They divorced due to her infidelity on the road about the time it took to make a profitable business. As the business grew and with Multiple lawyers my buddy would have to write checks because some judge said she suffered sooooo much during the poor years she deserved to share in the success too.

A family friend (female BTW) was married young to a guy whose lifetime earnings as a student/research assistant would amount to a years salary flipping burgers at MCDons. She worked a couple of grueling jobs at a time for over 10 years putting him through undergrad Pre Med then Med school and paid for quite a bit of the tuition. and when he got a residency at some prestigious hospital (boston MC I believe) She gave up her careers to be suzy homemaker and move to Boston. About 2 months before the end of his residency he filed for divorce. She will never have to work again because of what she gave up allowing him to gain a successful career with very little debt and she has gotten 2 or more lifestyle adjustments as his earning rocketed as a thorasic(sp?) surgeon. Now she works for a non profit doing something she loves for a little money but on a Drs Ex wife salary and she earned every penny!

Same logic applies with coach she stuck by him during the lean times and gave up her career ??? to be Mrs Coach O and therefore those contributions to his current and future success will be paid for by Coach O. The same way if he were to be fired he could file for reduction of his alimony on the grounds he couldn't afford it since he's now a high school coach. You have a lot to learn or unlearn about the divorce legal process.

Your buddy who owned the steel fab company needs to get a new attorney. He got a divorce and I'm assuming the wife was at fault (adultery), and he owed her permanent alimony?

 

[bag12day]

Your buddy who owned the steel fab company needs to get a new attorney. He got a divorce and I'm assuming the wife was at fault (adultery), and he owed her permanent alimony?

You missed the part of he had Multiple DIFFERENT attorneys and firms ( three) and the judicial system will always default to poor Mrs whatever... It was called marital misconduct and basically her attorney alleged because he worked 18-20 hours a day 6 days a week she had to go elsewhere for her "needs". That part was kind of BS since I heard more than a few times when she had a few glasses of wine with my wife when we met for dinner after a fishing trip at the beach how she was tired, headache, not in the mood, etc...His lawyers' contention was he wanted to have relations but she didn't cause she was getting it on the side when outa town. Couldn't be proven one way or the other to the judge so he erred with her despite the fact he and his legal team had Private Investigator evidence to the cheating but couldn't prove why she did it. I've been happily married to my first and only wife Mrs Bag for 30+years but I do have some real world experience that you just wont listen to. I'm gonna assume you are on the younger side of 40?
You're convinced you are right because of what you think not real life and that's OK it just makes you look a bit slow when so many people try to point it out. The consideration is called "any other Economic factors" in the state of NC and most other states. That means if you might come into a different situation post divorce the spouse can reserve the right to come back for more money. NO it ain't fair but its the way it happens. Same thing happens when a Mom who is a crack whore is awarded total custody of kids and dad gets visitation two weekends a month with a steady good paying job and stable Homefront with a wonderful new wife. Social services and the judicial system will continue to err on the side of the female. One of the firefighters in my station has this issue... The mom has been arrested, charged and convicted multiple times of maintaining a house for sale of narcotics and selling/ using as well. Guess what??? the kids are still in her custody despite numerous attempts by him and LEOs to change it when she goes to jail the court left the kids with her mom instead of the father.
Like I said you can think what you want but do you think all them people that slipped and bust their ass at walmart really cant ever work again or were deprived of 5million$ of future earnings?
Back to the issue at hand they will divide their current assets and award alimony but they will take into account his future earnings and reserve the right to adjust the amount down the road whether or not you think its right. One final note if he pulls a Butch and gets fired and takes a job at a much salary the court can hold he still has to pay the 2M a year or what ever they awarded.

 

[05_never_again]

You missed the part of he had Multiple DIFFERENT attorneys and firms ( three) and the judicial system will always default to poor Mrs whatever...

Nope, read that part and read the whole thing. He probably switched attorneys one less time than he should have.

 

[bag12day]

Nope, read that part and read the whole thing. He probably switched attorneys one less time than he should have.

Well I guess I'm sorry you read the whole thing lol. Would you answer the age question for me? I am gonna lump you clearly in the conversations I have with my 27 YO son who thinks he knows how the world works ( and is now a father) and those of us with some life experiences just laugh not saying Im always right but sometimes how the law should work and how it does work are two different things. I assume after getting screwed so many times it was "the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result" as to why he changed firms several times. The guy also won a 2 million $ emminent domain suit against the State of NC when they took his building location for a road without just fair market compensation (fairly unheard of here) so not like he was hiring stupid firms.

 

[05_never_again]

Well I guess I'm sorry you read the whole thing lol. Would you answer the age question for me? I am gonna lump you clearly in the conversations I have with my 27 YO son who thinks he knows how the world works ( and is now a father) and those of us with some life experiences just laugh not saying Im always right but sometimes how the law should work and how it does work are two different things. I assume after getting screwed so many times it was "the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result" as to why he changed firms several times. The guy also won a 2 million $ emminent domain suit against the State of NC when they took his building location for a road without just fair market compensation (fairly unheard of here) so not like he was hiring stupid firms.

Yes, I'm less than 40. Older than your son, and married, but less than 40.

I'd still be surprised if Coach O's wife got any significant portion of his future income, especially considering when they split up the assets 50/50 (see I can be practical too...that isn't how it "should" work but it will be how this works) she'll be a pretty wealthy woman. In those two situations you described, the husband sounds like he hadn't quite "made it" yet. The steel fab guy's business took off later, and the eventual surgeon wasn't a surgeon yet. I'm presuming there wasn't a big pool of marital assets to split up at the time of those divorce, so they worked out an alimony deal where the ex-husband has to pay the ex-wife money because he makes way more money than her and she claims she "can't support herself," or claims to have "played a role in his success" and is entitled to some of that money, or some other BS claim.

I don't disagree at all that these situations generally err on the side of the ex-wife, especially if kids are involved.