Efficient biofuel? Too good to be true?

#1
JayVols

JayVols

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#1
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Hope the link works. Looks funny. The owners claim to be able to produce deisel and ethanol by introducing sunlight, CO2, and water to a non algae organism. Lot of skepticism. If it works, we could possibly reduce our policing of the Middle East. Or at least quit kissing oil producing countries' asses. I read the difficulties of the process. I know it is years away at best, but every great journey begins with a single step.

Edit: forgot to mention the owners' claim the cost of production is basically equivalent to $30/ barrel in oil prices.
 
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#2
#2
Using sugar beets instead of corn would be a big step in increasing efficiency. Gotta keep the pockets lined in the corn belt though.
 
#3
#3
JTrainDavis said:
Using sugar beets instead of corn would be a big step in increasing efficiency. Gotta keep the pockets lined in the corn belt though.
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That is truth. Is it Brazil that produces all their fuel from sugar cane derived ethanol? Whoever it is, they made a decision to break the oil addiction after the fiasco of the 1970's. Switchgrass is also more efficient than corn. But as you stated, can't cut big agribusiness subsidies.....
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#4
#4
JayVols said:
That is truth. Is it Brazil that produces all their fuel from sugar cane derived ethanol? Whoever it is, they made a decision to break the oil addiction after the fiasco of the 1970's. Switchgrass is also more efficient than corn. But as you stated, can't cut big agribusiness subsidies.....
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Why not?
 
#5
#5
The most efficient way would be to nuke the heck out of the middle east and just take the oil.
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#7
#7
JayVols said:
That is truth. Is it Brazil that produces all their fuel from sugar cane derived ethanol? Whoever it is, they made a decision to break the oil addiction after the fiasco of the 1970's. Switchgrass is also more efficient than corn. But as you stated, can't cut big agribusiness subsidies.....
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It's Brazil.
 
#8
#8
Yes, Brazil has an ideal climate for cane sugar, which we don't. I read somewhere that sugar beets produce roughly 2.5x the ethanol per acre than corn, and are less taxing on the soil as well.
 
#9
#9
Sounds like it would be the apocalypse if this organism got loose and established in nature.
 
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JTrainDavis said:
Yes, Brazil has an ideal climate for cane sugar, which we don't. I read somewhere that sugar beets produce roughly 2.5x the ethanol per acre than corn, and are less taxing on the soil as well.
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Why is a transition to beet production such a task? Is it a regional thing?
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#11
#11
Eastern Wyoming, Eastern Colorado, South Dakota, etc. used to be prime sugar beet land back in the early 20th century. It's very easy to grow, as it is very hearty.
 
#13
#13
Tons of sugar beets around here. It seems to be one of the few places in the country where you can buy locally produced sugar.
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#14
#14
wounded mullet said:
Why is a transition to beet production such a task? Is it a regional thing?
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As far as I can tell, there is a tangled web of subsidies having to deal with feed stock, foreign aid, and price setting that leads all roads back to corn.

Just a layman's take of it.
 
#15
#15
JTrainDavis said:
Yes, Brazil has an ideal climate for cane sugar, which we don't. I read somewhere that sugar beets produce roughly 2.5x the ethanol per acre than corn, and are less taxing on the soil as well.
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Good deal. My neighbor used to grow cane to make molasses. My cousin that leases my farm grows cane in his cornfields to chop for silage to feed our cattle. Of course this is small scale. We need to do something (other than *****ing about oil prices) so we can tell the oil industry and the Middle East to go to hell.
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#18
#18
JayVols said:
Good deal. My neighbor used to grow cane to make molasses. My cousin that leases my farm grows cane in his cornfields to chop for silage to feed our cattle. Of course this is small scale. We need to do something (other than *****ing about oil prices) so we can tell the oil industry and the Middle East to go to hell.
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You mean Sorghum?
 
#19
#19
JayVols said:
Good deal. My neighbor used to grow cane to make molasses. My cousin that leases my farm grows cane in his cornfields to chop for silage to feed our cattle. Of course this is small scale. We need to do something (other than *****ing about oil prices) so we can tell the oil industry and the Middle East to go to hell.
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There is not long term plan, as the powers that be are more tangled up in election rhetoric than they are ripping the husk off the issue and getting to the nuts and bolts of the problem with transitioning crops.
 
#20
#20
Thunder Thorton may have a problem with the beets since he has a multi-million $$$ ethanol plant in vonore using corn.
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#21
#21
JTrainDavis said:
There is not long term plan, as the powers that be are more tangled up in election rhetoric than they are ripping the husk off the issue and getting to the nuts and bolts of the problem with transitioning crops.
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You still can't get something for nothing, though. You have to input energy in the process to create the ethanol from sugar beets.

has anyone done a study to see how much more efficient it is to harvest beets as a source of fuel? I'm guessing you still have to input a lot more than you get back.
 
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#23
#23
JTrainDavis said:
There is not long term plan, as the powers that be are more tangled up in election rhetoric than they are ripping the husk off the issue and getting to the nuts and bolts of the problem with transitioning crops.
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I hear ya. Progress is difficult in the legalized bribery that our politicians engage in to be elected or re-elected. Screw what is best as long as I keep power is the mantra to which these guys subscribe.

I've heard of sorghum, we always called it molasses, not sure if they are the same or different. HUGE community get together for the old timers. Kinda like an apple butter cook.
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#24
#24
Rasputin_Vol said:
You still can't get something for nothing, though. You have to input energy in the process to create the ethanol fro sugar beets.

has anyone done a study to see how much more efficient it is to harvest beets as a source of fuel? I'm guessing you still have to input a lot more than you get back.
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From extensive analysis holding all things equal between the feedstocks, sugar beets is a much
more efficient feedstock. Sugar beet ethanol loses only 51.1% of the energy it provides, whereas
corn loses 90.35% of the energy in the production of the ethanol. While sugar beets are clearly
better from an energetic standpoint, the low production of sugar beets needs to be increased to
make this a viable solution
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http://www.che.utexas.edu/course/che359&384/_assets/sample_tech_report.pdf

Just one take on the matter, numbers vary, as to where you look.
 
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