Emboldened GOP Wants to Abolish State Income Taxes

#2
#2
it's much easier to work on a state level than to try and pry money out of the fed's hand. Baby steps
 
#3
#3
Not sure I think the GOP ought to be feeling emboldened at the moment,particularly on taxation issues. Pride cometh before the fall.
 
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#5
#5
I'd rather the focus be on eliminating property taxes. While I could get fined or go to jail for not paying income tax, I lose the house if I don't pay property taxes. In Pennsylvania we pay property taxes to both the school district and the city or township, both of whom just raised the tax rate by 17% and 11% respectively. Property tax means the state effectively owns my house and lets me stay there as long as I pay the lease.
 
#6
#6
YorkVol said:
I'd rather the focus be on eliminating property taxes. While I could get fined or go to jail for not paying income tax, I lose the house if I don't pay property taxes. In Pennsylvania we pay property taxes to both the school district and the city or township, both of whom just raised the tax rate by 17% and 11% respectively. Property tax means the state effectively owns my house and lets me stay there as long as I pay the lease.
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I understand where you're coming from, but I would rather the income tax be abolished. Income tax is nothing more than the enslavement of working citizens by making them work for free to finance the government. There's a reason the Constitution had to be amended for the Federal government to institute an income tax.
 
#7
#7
Pepe_Silvia said:
I understand where you're coming from, but I would rather the income tax be abolished. Income tax is nothing more than the enslavement of working citizens by making them work for free to finance the government. There's a reason the Constitution had to be amended for the Federal government to institute an income tax.
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There are questions about the ratification, too.

1) Ohio wasn't officially proclaimed a state until 1953 (LMAO), so their vote for ratification is disputed.
2) It is disputed that the quoted text of the Amendment differed from the text proposed by Congress
3) 14th amendment should render the 16th amendment unconstitutional because federal income tax is progressive, which defies "equal protection under the law"
 
#8
#8
There are a lot of laws passed in this country that are unconstitutional. Regardless, those laws are somehow allowed to stand.
 
#10
#10
Pepe_Silvia said:
I understand where you're coming from, but I would rather the income tax be abolished. Income tax is nothing more than the enslavement of working citizens by making them work for free to finance the government. There's a reason the Constitution had to be amended for the Federal government to institute an income tax.
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I'm with you there as well, I just want to start with the property taxes, then get rid of the income tax and replace it all with usage taxes for normal budgetary items and bonds for things not in the budget.
 
#11
#11
Keep in mind that whatever tax system is in place, the party in power or even government in general will exploit it. Sales tax plans will be exploited to tax the rich based on higher dollar purchases. Property taxes can be reassessed based on size of lot, square footage, additional buildings on property, etc. There will never be a perfect system and all will be exploited.

Seeing how our system is so politically polarized and close to a balance of 50/50, I don't see any repeal of the wonderful income tax amendment. It will take a complete economic collapse giving a mass majority in Congress to bring effective change at the federal level. I think there's a better chance the national convention route would be used than the 2/3 supermajority route.
 
#12
#12
CSpindizzy said:
Keep in mind that whatever tax system is in place, the party in power or even government in general will exploit it. Sales tax plans will be exploited to tax the rich based on higher dollar purchases. Property taxes can be reassessed based on size of lot, square footage, additional buildings on property, etc. There will never be a perfect system and all will be exploited.

Seeing how our system is so politically polarized and close to a balance of 50/50, I don't see any repeal of the wonderful income tax amendment. It will take a complete economic collapse giving a mass majority in Congress to bring effective change at the federal level. I think there's a better chance the national convention route would be used than the 2/3 supermajority route.
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I think this is a very astute post.
 
#13
#13
CSpindizzy said:
Keep in mind that whatever tax system is in place, the party in power or even government in general will exploit it. Sales tax plans will be exploited to tax the rich based on higher dollar purchases. Property taxes can be reassessed based on size of lot, square footage, additional buildings on property, etc. There will never be a perfect system and all will be exploited.

Seeing how our system is so politically polarized and close to a balance of 50/50, I don't see any repeal of the wonderful income tax amendment. It will take a complete economic collapse giving a mass majority in Congress to bring effective change at the federal level. I think there's a better chance the national convention route would be used than the 2/3 supermajority route.
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The way we're going now, I would say this is a distinct possibility - perhaps inevitability - in our future.
 
#15
#15
lawgator1 said:
It is inevitable that all socio-economic systems collapse and get replaced with new ones.
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Hopefully it won't take a catastrophic collapse of our system for people to realize that it is unsustainable.

I'm not holding my breath, though.
 
#16
#16
Pepe_Silvia said:
Hopefully it won't take a catastrophic collapse of our system for people to realize that it is unsustainable.

I'm not holding my breath, though.
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You are right. The greed of the very top, combined with their corruption of the government so as to perpetuate their position, dooms the system.
 
#18
#18
And that very top knows no party ID. Seeing all the scandals of late we definitely have proof of that. Despite what the Left says, their hands are just as much dipping into the spoils as the Right.

The "hope" is that this greedy top, in the interests of self preservation makes the needed changes (for them mind you) to keep this system going. It's the status quo that keeps them happy and sustaining.

The Right finds itself dividing along an economic argument: a populist line vs. a free market line. Not sure who wins control of this side of the aisle but if corporate scandals keep occurring along with a profile of the rich getting richer while the economy stagnates or deflates, you will see a greater division of the Right.
 
#19
#19
CSpindizzy said:
And that very top knows no party ID. Seeing all the scandals of late we definitely have proof of that. Despite what the Left says, their hands are just as much dipping into the spoils as the Right.

The "hope" is that this greedy top, in the interests of self preservation makes the needed changes (for them mind you) to keep this system going. It's the status quo that keeps them happy and sustaining.

The Right finds itself dividing along an economic argument: a populist line vs. a free market line. Not sure who wins control of this side of the aisle but if corporate scandals keep occurring along with a profile of the rich getting richer while the economy stagnates or deflates, you will see a greater division of the Right.
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Politicians on the right and the left are both guilty, I agree. But as a general rule, it currently is the Republican party that overall favors the status quo, or even worse, adoption of policy and ideology that makes the distance between rich and poor much, much worse.
 
#20
#20
lawgator1 said:
Politicians on the right and the left are both guilty, I agree. But as a general rule, it currently is the Republican party that overall favors the status quo, or even worse, adoption of policy and ideology that makes the distance between rich and poor much, much worse.
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Hmm. Frank, Dodd, Corzine...just to name a few. Those currently running Mae and Mac (see another post for that juicy tidbit. The head of banks like BoA, Chase, and others. I'd be happy to list endless names of politicians and CEO's who are currently card carrying members or at least voting/donating supporters of the Democrats.

Considering who has controlled Congress (one if not both houses) as well as the White House over the past few years of exponential distancing of rich and poor, your point is not valid.
 
#21
#21
CSpindizzy said:
Hmm. Frank, Dodd, Corzine...just to name a few. Those currently running Mae and Mac (see another post for that juicy tidbit. The head of banks like BoA, Chase, and others. I'd be happy to list endless names of politicians and CEO's who are currently card carrying members or at least voting/donating supporters of the Democrats.

Considering who has controlled Congress (one if not both houses) as well as the White House over the past few years of exponential distancing of rich and poor, your point is not valid.
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Again, you are naming politicians, and I agree that the Dems in Washington have sold out to the special interests just as much as the Republicans up there have.

I'm drawing a distinction between them, who we all seem to hold in contempt, and the rank and file membership of the parties and what they support.

At the moment, it seems to me that the GOP largely (not in all respects, but in far more than Dems) support either the current system or even making it easier for the wealthy to stay wealthy and at the expense of the middle and lower classes.

Long term, we are screwed unless there is a sea change in the way that the politicians in both parties view this tug of war. But at this particular point in time the choice is generally between a vision of the system whereby those who have a lot will get even more, versus one in which the goal is equality of opportunity and reduced influence of money in politics.
 
#22
#22
lawgator1 said:
At the moment, it seems to me that the GOP largely (not in all respects, but in far more than Dems) support either the current system or even making it easier for the wealthy to stay wealthy and at the expense of the middle and lower classes.
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that's not going to be true no matter how many times you repeat it
 
#23
#23
lawgator1 said:
Politicians on the right and the left are both guilty, I agree. But as a general rule, it currently is the Republican party that overall favors the status quo, or even worse, adoption of policy and ideology that makes the distance between rich and poor much, much worse.
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Yeah. The T-party movement was all about maintaining the status quo.

I didn't know it was about "distance between rich and poor" (I promise you it's not to free market proponents). I thought it was about guaranteeing that "needs" are met.
 
#24
#24
nbakerld said:
Yeah. The T-party movement was all about maintaining the status quo.

I didn't know it was about "distance between rich and poor" (I promise you it's not to free market proponents). I thought it was about guaranteeing that "needs" are met.
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No, they are the ones who have in some respects bought into the notion of making it worse. Now, I think basic members would not wantt hat. But certainly the leadership perpetuates it.
 
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