Fall of the Confederate Wall - Confederate Symbols Debate (Merged)

#51
#51
volinbham said:
You starting a petition to get some statues removed?

More importantly, are these bad people and racist bigots such that any good they did is overshadowed by this aspect of their past?
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Benedict Arnold did some good things in his life also. I think we should place a statue of him in our capital building.
 
#54
#54
1972 Grad said:
1) Forrest joined the KKK a year after it was organized by 6 men in Pulaski, TN.

2) Forrest was a brilliant Civil War General and strategist, rising from the rank of Private to Lt. General.

3) Forrest gave a speech before a group of Blacks in 1875, urging racial reconciliation, and moved away from the KKK, much like Senator Byrd of West Virginia did. Maybe we should also remove any statues of Sen. Byrd.
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While Forrest was humbled by financial ruin that might have changed his outlook on life, unfortunately, he was on the wrong side of history and his life's work belong in a museum... not in the Tennessee state capitol.

Just my outlook on it.
 
#56
#56
volinbham said:
So how about our founding fathers who owned slaves? They did nothing to stop slavery and enjoyed the benefits yet we look past that and honor them.
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I think we should blow up 2/4 of Mt Rushmore faces.
 
#57
#57
volinbham said:
You starting a petition to get some statues removed?

More importantly, are these bad people and racist bigots such that any good they did is overshadowed by this aspect of their past?
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A petition would be useless. But I've never admired the founding fathers as much as other people do. And I won't pretend to be an expert on the subject. I've done a fair amount of research but I'm certainly planning on doing more. (Book recommendations would be great.)

And no, I don't think it completely overshadows the good they did - but I think it goes to show they were not perfect people by any stretch. And that a lot of their ideas weren't good - but we've accepted them as good because they are mythic legends in our culture. Slavery was terrible, and they justified it by religious/economic means, which was even worse.
 
#58
#58
Kingston Vol said:
Why? ISIS thinks they're in the right. So did the nazis. I don't get the point in glorifying people who fought to protect their rights to enslave another race. At best, they were treasonists. At worst, they were racist bigots.
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My ancestors were dirt poor farmers from Eastern North Carolina and Upstate South Carolina. They'd probably never even seen a black person, much less owned a slave. Why would they fight and die to protect an institution that in no way benefited or affected them?
 
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#59
#59
Lets take slavery out of the equation just for shizz and giggles and ask yourselves how you would feel about the confederacy if it was JUST a stand against a tyrannical federal government?

No, I'm not insinuating slavery wasn't an issue, it was. But so were the actions of the federal government.
 
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#60
#60
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Maybe if he was buried there, but he died dead broke in England. Maybe they can build a memorial for him.
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So no matter what horrible things someone did, if they died in TN and did atleast one good thing, you're cool with us honoring them?
 
#61
#61
hog88 said:
Lets take slavery out of the equation just for shizz and giggles and ask yourselves how you would feel about the confederacy if it was JUST a stand against a tyrannical federal government?

No, I'm not insinuating slavery wasn't an issue, it was. But so were the actions of the federal government.
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That's the problem, the slavery issue is the only thing that many focus on. I dont think a single person "today" and outside of nutjobs, think slavery was right or should have been tolerated.
 
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#62
#62
Through_The_T said:
My ancestors were dirt poor farmers from Eastern North Carolina and Upstate South Carolina. They'd probably never even seen a black person, much less owned a slave. Why would they fight and die to protect an institution that in no way benefited or affected them?
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I can't speak for them, but I assume it would be because they thought if they worked hard enough they would be able to buy a bigger farm and be able to afford slaves.

Just because one isn't taking advantage of the system doesn't mean they wouldn't want to.
 
#64
#64
Vol8188 said:
So no matter what horrible things someone did, if they died in TN and did atleast one good thing, you're cool with us honoring them?
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Arnold never asked forgiveness and remained unrepentant. He never recognized or owned up to his actions.
 
#67
#67
Kingston Vol said:
I can't speak for them, but I assume it would be because they thought if they worked hard enough they would be able to buy a bigger farm and be able to afford slaves.

Just because one isn't taking advantage of the system doesn't mean they wouldn't want to.
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can't speak for them but you did

:blink:

"our only dream is to one day afford slaves"

why not admit you have no idea how they felt instead of labeling them racist wannabes?
 
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#68
#68
hog88 said:
Lets take slavery out of the equation just for shizz and giggles and ask yourselves how you would feel about the confederacy if it was JUST a stand against a tyrannical federal government?

No, I'm not insinuating slavery wasn't an issue, it was. But so were the actions of the federal government.
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I'm iffy on it because I think the idealogy was completely unreasonable. For 40-60 previous to the Civil War, people knew a fight for/against slavery was coming. Whether they thought it would be an actual war instead of a political/legislative fight differed from person to person, I would imagine.

I understand they didn't want the federal government to tell them what to do and how to govern - but in this instance, they had to be stopped. The enslavement of a race of people had to end. And I think the South got upset by it because they thought they were 1.) going to lose a lot of money and 2.) they thought they had a religious superiority over their slaves.
 
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#70
#70
Kingston Vol said:
I can't speak for them, but I assume it would be because they thought if they worked hard enough they would be able to buy a bigger farm and be able to afford slaves.

Just because one isn't taking advantage of the system doesn't mean they wouldn't want to.
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That's the equivalent of fighting and dying for a lottery ticket. Don't believe that to be the case at all.

The true reason, and I believe this to be true of most Southerners in their position, was the defense of their states and communities, in a war started by the plantation-owning elite and politicians.
 
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#71
#71
Vol8188 said:
So no matter what horrible things someone did, if they died in TN and did atleast one good thing, you're cool with us honoring them?
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I guess we should bulldoze the cemeteries, build strip malls over them, and pretend it never happened? People who died protecting their state should be respected
 
#73
#73
just perusing the Wiki on Bedford - appears his KKK connection lasted roughly 4 or 5 years. Less than 4 years after that he gave his reconciliation speech that was quite progressive for the time.

So is the beef with him the 4 or 5 years with the KKK?, the fact he fought for the Confederacy or something else.
 
#75
#75
Kingston Vol said:
I'm iffy on it because I think the idealogy was completely unreasonable. For 40-60 previous to the Civil War, people knew a fight for/against slavery was coming. Whether they thought it would be an actual war instead of a political/legislative fight differed from person to person, I would imagine.

I understand they didn't want the federal government to tell them what to do and how to govern - but in this instance, they had to be stopped. The enslavement of a race of people had to end. And I think the South got upset by it because they thought they were 1.) going to lose a lot of money and 2.) they thought they had a religious superiority over their slaves.
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Just forget the slave issue and concentrate on the disproportionate effects the tariffs had on the south. And that was the sole reason for rebellion? What would be your thoughts?
 
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