FCC Begins Teardown Process on Net Neutrality

#2
#2
My understanding is that companies like At&t want to be able to limit access to sites like vontage that compete with them. I like an open internet so I hope they keep title II.
 
#3
#3
I emailed Duncan about voting against this last year and received some canned response of talking points, like any other time I've emailed my representative.

My main complaint was, in my previous career I worked for a mega corporation communications company. I cited how the Telecommunications Act of '96 allowed the broadcasting realm to become monopolies...i.e. Comcast, Time Warner, Clear Channel (now iHeart Radio), Cumulus, etc., and how they've killed the competition within the industry. Now the stated goal of the law was to let anyone enter any communications business compete in any market against any other. Sounds great right? Free market and such, but in reality that didn't happen, not even close. There was nothing in place to stop the larger companies from completely taking over the entire industry. Most hated company in America? Comcast. You know what the only ISP is in my neighborhood, you guessed it...f'ing Comcast. Radio sucks these days? The Clear Channel station I used to work for has NO ONE LOCAL, every single thing about that station is outsourced. Programming, on air talent, giveaways, not a single bit of it is run by anyone living remotely close to that market. It's a jukebox with out of towners pretending to be local DJ's telling you to be the 100th nationwide caller to win something.

I recall his response saying something along the lines of, 'any time a service has come under extensive federal regulation; it usually becomes controlled by a few big giants.' Goes both ways, if Net Neutrality goes away, we'll see something similar to the results of the TCA of '96, IMO. And I don't believe that's going to be good for Joe American, especially Joe American that is a hopeful or current small business owner.
 
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#5
#5
The sky falling!!!

Think about this for a second. If you have ever uttered the words "I like smaller government" then you should stay positive about this until you see it go south. How many times in your life have you seen an unelected Washington bureaucrat surrender power?

Not to mention, regulation is usually used by big companies to ensure their staying power. Internet infrastructure is only going to improve from here. It's not perfect for everybody, but the market is working on it. Regulation will get in the way of those natural solutions.
 
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#6
#6
And if net neutrality seems like a no-brainer to you, do more research.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX0Ituesovg[/youtube]
 
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#7
#7
For all of the supposed cord cutters on this board, I figured this thread would be pretty active.
 
#10
#10
This helps understand the issue

Net neutrality is the principle that Internet service providers and governments regulating the Internet should treat all data on the Internet the same, not discriminating or charging differentially by user, content, website, platform, application, type of attached equipment, or mode of communication.
Click to expand...
 
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#11
#11
Velo Vol said:
This helps understand the issue
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That does cover it pretty well, and there is broad agreement - across consumer groups and industry - with those principles. Problems emerged when Title II was selectively applied by the Obama admin. In what world does it make sense to add 19th century rules designed to regulate railroads to the Internet?
 
#12
#12
franklinpence said:
That does cover it pretty well, and there is broad agreement - across consumer groups and industry - with those principles. Problems emerged when Title II was selectively applied by the Obama admin. In what world does it make sense to add 19th century rules designed to regulate railroads to the Internet?
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well you see they are a bunch of tubes....
 
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#13
#13
n_huffhines said:
The sky falling!!!

Think about this for a second. If you have ever uttered the words "I like smaller government" then you should stay positive about this until you see it go south. How many times in your life have you seen an unelected Washington bureaucrat surrender power?

Not to mention, regulation is usually used by big companies to ensure their staying power. Internet infrastructure is only going to improve from here. It's not perfect for everybody, but the market is working on it. Regulation will get in the way of those natural solutions.
Click to expand...

You think we'll have to wait long for the comcast lobbyists that have sunk millions into defeating net neutrality to try and make that back off of the backs of content creators and consumers? LOL.

The regulation levels the playing field. Can you explain why you believe this will result in more competition instead of being a bigger hurdle for start ups?
 
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#14
#14
volinbham said:
This might help understand the issue

http://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2017/05/18/the_ugly_truth_about_obamas_net_neutrality_110247.html
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The current iteration of the net-neutrality debate is not really about an “Open Internet” or free speech or even apple pie; it’s about whether government should be permitted to expand its power and encroach on private actors’ due process protections. At stake, in other words, is whether an administrative agency should be permitted to re-write the law — especially when it does so simply to fit a political agenda.



Shoo, thank God.
 
#15
#15
Here's an interesting part of the 2015 Open Internet Order. It's at the end of paragraph 193 on page 85.

https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-15-24A1.pdf

However, for reasons discussed more fully below, we exclude this portion of broadband Internet access service - interconnection with a broadband Internet access service provider’s network - from application of our open Internet rules. We note that this exclusion also extends to interconnection with CDNs.
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These are the so-called "fast lanes" that are about to ruin the Internet. They never went away... because they weren't covered under the net neutrality rules implemented in the United States. This exclusion alone breaks net neutrality in a way that mutually benefits ISPs and big Internet companies, while leaving the smaller Internet companies that can't afford to pay for extra interconnections at the same disadvantage as before.

Since blocking, throttling, and "fast-laning" are still allowed at interconnection points between the networks of Internet companies and ISPs, how do consumers benefit from these net neutrality rules?
 
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#17
#17
Septic said:
You think we'll have to wait long for the comcast lobbyists that have sunk millions into defeating net neutrality to try and make that back off of the backs of content creators and consumers? LOL.
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Think about this for a second....if my neighbor uses the internet for email and news articles and I use it to stream 50 hours of netflix a week, is it fair for comcast to treat the consumers and the websites the same? They're not the same. Why should he be paying just as much as me? Why shouldn't someone pay for the bandwidth they use? Why is that on the ISP?

The regulation levels the playing field. Can you explain why you believe this will result in more competition instead of being a bigger hurdle for start ups?
Click to expand...

As Mark Cuban says, the internet is by far the best place to start a business. Part of that is based on the fact that government largely stays out of it. So they're going to "level the playing field" with bureaucratic involvement and make it look more like what the croney capitalists have done to other areas of business. No thanks.
 
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#18
#18
#19
#19
n_huffhines said:
Think about this for a second....if my neighbor uses the internet for email and news articles and I use it to stream 50 hours of netflix a week, is it fair for comcast to treat the consumers and the websites the same? They're not the same. Why should he be paying just as much as me? Why shouldn't someone pay for the bandwidth they use? Why is that on the ISP?
Click to expand...

This point doesn't really make a ton of sense to me. If the guy who is only using it for news articles and email, then he should buy a lower bandwidth plan with a much lower cap. People who stream 50 hours of Netflix a week are going to get hit with a cap from the ISP or they pay more for a plan that has a much higher bandwidth and cap.
 
#20
#20
Quaint88 said:
Here's an interesting part of the 2015 Open Internet Order. It's at the end of paragraph 193 on page 85.

https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-15-24A1.pdf



These are the so-called "fast lanes" that are about to ruin the Internet. They never went away... because they weren't covered under the net neutrality rules implemented in the United States. This exclusion alone breaks net neutrality in a way that mutually benefits ISPs and big Internet companies, while leaving the smaller Internet companies that can't afford to pay for extra interconnections at the same disadvantage as before.

Since blocking, throttling, and "fast-laning" are still allowed at interconnection points between the networks of Internet companies and ISPs, how do consumers benefit from these net neutrality rules?
Click to expand...

Fast lanes aren't what's going to "ruin" the internet. It's the throttling of high demand sites that Comcast wants a pound of flesh for. If they can shake down pornhub and netflix for providing high demand content, while at the same time sell us more and bandwidth for higher prices (as it is now) - they make more money.

Guess what happens to the price of your netflix subscription when Netflix has to pay comcast more? I assure you, your 9.95 subscription will not remain $9.95.

If the net neutrality isn't a problem now - why are they trying to dump net neutrality regulations?

Follow the money - from your wallet to Comcast.
 
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#21
#21
n_huffhines said:
Think about this for a second....if my neighbor uses the internet for email and news articles and I use it to stream 50 hours of netflix a week, is it fair for comcast to treat the consumers and the websites the same? They're not the same. Why should he be paying just as much as me? Why shouldn't someone pay for the bandwidth they use? Why is that on the ISP?



As Mark Cuban says, the internet is by far the best place to start a business. Part of that is based on the fact that government largely stays out of it. So they're going to "level the playing field" with bureaucratic involvement and make it look more like what the croney capitalists have done to other areas of business. No thanks.
Click to expand...


Providers used to sell data limit plans, they still can. They've chosen not to since high speed data has allowed for consumer demand of big files and content like HD movies.

You're conflating end user usage for content provider usage. The shakedown will happen on content provider end, ultimately the cost will be passed along to the consumer. The delivery system (e.g. comcast) see's the potential of an additional revenue stream since they are one of a few company's that have the capability and infrastructure to deliver.

It's a money grab not a way for the consumer to have more freedom. That's a f***ing joke. I'm no fan of government regulation, but this is an instance that the regulation provides actual consumer protections.
 
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#22
#22
Septic said:
You're conflating end user usage for content provider usage. The shakedown will happen on content provider end, ultimately the cost will be passed along to the consumer. The delivery system (e.g. comcast) see's the potential of an additional revenue stream since they are one of a few company's that have the capability and infrastructure to deliver.
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So riddle me this, if Comcast can make $ by charging the end user more for the data, why would they throttle Netflix? Netflix would become sort of like a partner in this scenario, not a competitor.

Maybe I am conflating the two, but from the perspective of the ISP, they don't care where the $ comes from, they just want to be compensated for bandwidth.

BTW, most throttling is not actually throttling. It's just that ISPs bent over backwards providing fast lanes when they weren't obligated to do it, and then they stopped doing it. That often gets mischaracterized as "throttling".
 
#23
#23
n_huffhines said:
Think about this for a second....if my neighbor uses the internet for email and news articles and I use it to stream 50 hours of netflix a week, is it fair for comcast to treat the consumers and the websites the same? They're not the same. Why should he be paying just as much as me? Why shouldn't someone pay for the bandwidth they use? Why is that on the ISP?



As Mark Cuban says, the internet is by far the best place to start a business. Part of that is based on the fact that government largely stays out of it. So they're going to "level the playing field" with bureaucratic involvement and make it look more like what the croney capitalists have done to other areas of business. No thanks.
Click to expand...

Mark Cuban may be the absolute worst spokesman for the need to abolish net neutrality. He literally amassed his fortune by taking advantage of an open internet.

In 1995, Cuban and fellow Indiana University alumnus Todd Wagner started Audionet, combining their mutual interest in Indiana Hoosier college basketball and webcasting. With a single server and an ISDN line, Audionet became Broadcast.com in 1998. By 1999, Broadcast.com had grown to 330 employees and $13.5 million in revenue for the second quarter. In 1999, during the dot com boom, Broadcast.com was acquired by Yahoo! for $5.7 billion in Yahoo! stock.

This is the picture-perfect example of the permission-less innovation that the internet has fostered. A pair of entrepreneurs had an idea and built it using a set of free, open protocols that connected them to tens of millions of consumers. How well would this same idea have worked in a world full of dedicated "fast lanes" on the internet? Terribly.
Click to expand...
Source
 
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#24
#24
n_huffhines said:
So riddle me this, if Comcast can make $ by charging the end user more for the data, why would they throttle Netflix? Netflix would become sort of like a partner in this scenario, not a competitor.

Maybe I am conflating the two, but from the perspective of the ISP, they don't care where the $ comes from, they just want to be compensated for bandwidth.

BTW, most throttling is not actually throttling. It's just that ISPs bent over backwards providing fast lanes when they weren't obligated to do it, and then they stopped doing it. That often gets mischaracterized as "throttling".
Click to expand...

If they thought they could, they would charge us more. People are fed up and more and more people are cutting the cord - they need to shore this up by getting out ahead of the cord cutters.

One way is to throttle the content providers, yes throttle. I will never buy that comcast is bending over backwards to proactively do ANYTHING they aren't obligated to do.

Follow the money.
 
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#25
#25
Septic said:
If they thought they could, they would charge us more. People are fed up and more and more people are cutting the cord - they need to shore this up by getting out ahead of the cord cutters.

One way is to throttle the content providers, yes throttle. I will never buy that comcast is bending over backwards to proactively do ANYTHING they aren't obligated to do.

Follow the money.
Click to expand...

I have literally 0 internet problems ever. I have Cox. They are a big company with market power here. If they were looking for ways to cut corners, they could beat whatever regulations are on the books and find ways to screw me....but they don't. ****ing imagine that?...

Here is an interesting market solution:

https://www.wired.com/2016/09/build-internet-fast-lanes/

The tech industry is getting better and better at solving consumer problems by the minute. Please don't ask for the government to step in because you can't stomach the idea that the internet isn't perfect.
 
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