Feel Bad for Penn State?

#51
#51
orangesparkles said:
He put his friend and his job/legacy ahead of what at first could have seemed like an incident they could get under control (ie. stop) without speaking to the authorities. Morality is subjective, and becomes especially tricky in a situation like this. I'd love to say that I'd look out for the kids 100% of the time, but if it were my friend involved and my career/legacy on the line... who knows.

It's really easy to say that his priorities were in the wrong order, that Joe Paterno was an evil man. And, for the record, you are fully entitled to do so. But, when you take emotion out of it, the biggest critique becomes the laws which he violated.
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I disagree. Legally, he reported the incident to his superiors. .... but fulfillment of legal obligation is hardly the true measurement of a man.... certainly not for a leader worthy of a statute.

I'm betting you haven't read the Freeh Report. If it is correct, Curley, Spanier and Shultz were prepared to report this predator until JoPa vetoed it.... and came to this conclusion with knowledge of prior complaints. They also did absolutely nothing to control it. No one confronted Sandusky and they continued fuel the vial behavior with access to their facilities.
 
#52
#52
txbo said:
All the people involved aren't purged.

1) The inept board of trustees is still there. Everyone of them is either too stupid to sit on that board or complicit by failing to insist in good governance... A total failure of fiduciary responsibility.

2) Riots after JoPa's firing and protection of JoPa's statute show that many in Happy Valley just don't get it.
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Neither of those parties were actually covering up the crimes. that was my point.
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#54
#54
I saw a Nittony Lion sticker on a persons truck window today and the first thing that I thought of was Wow they are fans of child abuse! How could you be a player there and use the locker room and showers where this stuff went down? How can you leave Joe's name or statue or picture or anything on that campus! I would think about a name change, mascot change, color change, purge the record books and start out brand new with new staff, board members, and president!
 
#56
#56
orangesparkles said:
I don't think people understand just how much Joe Paterno means to that school and the community. One highly unfortunate lapse in judgment certainly tarnishes Joe Paterno's legacy, but it hardly destroys all that he's accomplished on and off the field.

Penn State fans don't want to see their history thrown out the window, and I don't blame them. All but the most highly irrational regret Joe Paterno's relative inaction in seeing Jerry brought to justice earlier, but to think that they're awful people for not wanting to completely admonish the man is ridiculous.
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An unfortunate lapse in judgement is getting drunk and in trouble one night. What Paterno did was actively cover up a child molester's actions over the course of several years. That's not an unfortunate lack of judgement. That's being a POS that is more concerned about his football career and reputation than the lives of the kids that Sandusky was abusing and going to abuse.
 
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#58
#58
UTCVol said:
I felt bad for the fans until I read one of their message boards. They're still defending the guy fervently and claiming there's no proof. Absolutely pathetic.
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And this is what I am talking about. They deserve NO sympathy whatsoever.
 
#59
#59
orangesparkles said:
He put his friend and his job/legacy ahead of what at first could have seemed like an incident they could get under control (ie. stop) without speaking to the authorities. Morality is subjective, and becomes especially tricky in a situation like this. I'd love to say that I'd look out for the kids 100% of the time, but if it were my friend involved and my career/legacy on the line... who knows.

It's really easy to say that his priorities were in the wrong order, that Joe Paterno was an evil man. And, for the record, you are fully entitled to do so. But, when you take emotion out of it, the biggest critique becomes the laws which he violated.
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What is right or wrong is not wholly defined by the law. I ask if laws that protect innocents, that stop someone from murder, rape, theft, etc. is not initially based on some morality, then what are they based on? If we are nothing more than animals whose only instinct is to look out for ourselves or our pack, what sort of society would we have?

Moral relativism can be taken too far. At what point do you stop with it? If its okay to cover up for a molester, then who is to say that the molesting is not acceptable. That is what the NAMBLA people hold on to...is moral relativism.

Truth is, a man that covers that up, has no character. If a friend of mine was discovered to be a pedophile, he would cease to be my friend and I would do everything in my power to make sure something was done about it by the authorities. If you have any doubt that you would do the same, then I question your character.
 
#60
#60
orangesparkles said:
Yes, Joe Paterno persuaded his associates to avoid bringing the situation to light. Yes, their inaction was unfortunate. Yes, not making the situation public violated the Clery Act. Yes, lying to a grand jury is illegal.

No... this does not mean that Penn State needs to completely dissociate from him. The fact that laws were broken certainly shows that Joe Paterno's priorities weren't in the correct order from a legal standpoint, but to say that the entire Penn State community has flawed priorities is outlandish and based entirely on your personal moral compass. There is nothing that the school, fans or community can currently do to undo what occurred. Obviously a lot of people are outraged by the Freeh report findings, and they are absolutely free to feel however they would please about Joe Paterno. Personally, I think Nike and Brown's decisions to remove Paterno's name from the facility and award is the best possible choice they could have made.

But they made that choice. Nike keeping Paterno's name on a child care facility would have been the most ironically abhorrent business decision ever, and Brown obviously did what they felt was right. However, Penn State fans still love Joe Paterno for all the positive he did for the school and community. They're not out of line to want the statue to stand, and it's laughable to say that they're putting their priorities in the wrong order if they don't want their football program to shut down over this incident. You're completely entitled to your opinion that Joe Paterno is a monster, just as they're allowed to view him as a good man who made a horrible mistake.
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If you want to talk about priorities, Paterno made the football program and his job a priority over child molestation.

That's not to say I don't feel bad for Penn State. I feel bad for the tens of thousands of people in State College for being ridiculed for something they had no part of.

BUT some people are trippin. You can't defend the guy's actions. Yes, he was an incredible coach, and he did great uncountable great things for Penn State, but you can't turn the blind eye to the atrocity.
 
#61
#61
Joe let that creep continue to use the Penn State facility to rape little boys! He is a supporter of child abuse! Burn that Locker room to the ground! Glad they took his statue down this morning, but that isnt enough!
 
#62
#62
I feel bad for the players that had nothing to do with it, the people that rely on penn state for a job working football games for extra money, the alumni that had nothing to do with the upper crust at PS that made the ultimate desicion to cover it up
 
#67
#67
Here's the link in story:

The NCAA will announce "corrective and punitive measures" for Penn State on Monday morning, it said in a statement, with CBS News reporting the penalties to be "unprecedented," affecting the football program and the school.

NCAA president Mark Emmert will reveal the sanctions Monday at 9 a.m. ET in Indianapolis at the organization's headquarters along with Ed Ray, the chairman of the NCAA's executive committee and Oregon State's president, the news release said.

A source confirmed to ESPN.com's Adam Rittenberg that the penalties will be significant, but did not confirm that it's a joint agreement between Penn State and the NCAA.

"I've never seen anything like it," CBSNews.com reported an unnamed source as saying Sunday morning.

To any degree, the NCAA is taking unprecedented measures with the decision to penalize Penn State without the traditional due process of a Committee on Infractions hearing.

The NCAA has a system in place in which it conducts its own investigations, issues a notice of allegations and then allows the university 90 days to respond before a hearing is scheduled.

Following the hearing, the Infractions Committee then usually takes a minimum of six weeks but it can last into upwards of a year to issue its findings.

But in the case of Penn State, the NCAA appears to be using the Freeh report -- commissioned by the school's board of trustees -- instead of its own investigation, before handing down sanctions.

The NCAA's announcement will follow a day after Penn State removed Joe Paterno's statue outside Beaver Stadium, a decision that came 10 days after the scathing report by former FBI director Louis J. Freeh found that Paterno, with three other top Penn State administrators, had concealed allegations of child sexual abuse made against former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky.

The Freeh report concluded their motive was to shield the university and its football program from negative publicity.
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#68
#68
TrueOrange said:
Here's the link in story:
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Wonder if he means by never seen anything like this before means the severity or the punishment? Or it could be one that they worked out together, PSU and the NCAA. Also, wonder if the NCAA can kick them out of the Big 10. Notre Dame enter stage left?
 
#69
#69
knucklehead_vol said:
Wonder if he means by never seen anything like this before means the severity or the punishment? Or it could be one that they worked out together, PSU and the NCAA. Also, wonder if the NCAA can kick them out of the Big 10. Notre Dame enter stage left?
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I put some of this in the other thread--may get merged. Joe Schad (via Twitter) says it is "severe" but not the death penalty. He also says it was not an agreement between the 'AA and PSU nor was it self-imposed. TIFWIW. His sources are usually good.
 
#70
#70
Coach Grizz said:
I feel bad for the players that had nothing to do with it, the people that rely on penn state for a job working football games for extra money, the alumni that had nothing to do with the upper crust at PS that made the ultimate desicion to cover it up
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Yep, me too. The lives of those truly responsible will be no less comfortable on Monday morning.
 
#71
#71
knucklehead_vol said:
Wonder if he means by never seen anything like this before means the severity or the punishment? Or it could be one that they worked out together, PSU and the NCAA. Also, wonder if the NCAA can kick them out of the Big 10. Notre Dame enter stage left?
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I agree; it (unprecedented) could either be severity or (I think more likely) the lack of having a due process hearing.

I don't think the NCAA has the power to decide conference affiliation (& let's hope not or any future conference realignment could be...messy). Even if they did though I'm not sure this would "open the door for Notre Dame"...there's some ill-feeling from the last negotiations and honestly, I don't think Notre Dame really so much wants in the conference; they dont want to give up their NBC contract and the Big 10 wants them to share it
 
#72
#72
TrueOrange said:
I agree; it (unprecedented) could either be severity or (I think more likely) the lack of having a due process hearing.

I don't think the NCAA has the power to decide conference affiliation (& let's hope not or any future conference realignment could be...messy). Even if they did though I'm not sure this would "open the door for Notre Dame"...there's some ill-feeling from the last negotiations and honestly, I don't think Notre Dame really so much wants in the conference; they dont want to give up their NBC contract and the Big 10 wants them to share it
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Well Rutgers then...lol.

But, check out this moron.

My Thoughts On Joe Paterno's Freeh Report Of "Jerry Sandusky" Child Molestations - YouTube
 
#73
#73
X-Factor said:
I put some of this in the other thread--may get merged. Joe Schad (via Twitter) says it is "severe" but not the death penalty. He also says it was not an agreement between the 'AA and PSU nor was it self-imposed. TIFWIW. His sources are usually good.
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Schad was reporting something along the lines of a few to several year bowl ban and an unknown number of reduced scholarships
 
#74
#74
Velo Vol said:
If Georgia State was the biggest program in it's region, had a huge stadium, and boatloads of money.
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Georgia State is a brand new program, forging their own identity and traditions right now with no history to draw on. I was just saying that Penn State will essentially have to do the same thing. They are basically going to have to white wash their past and start all over again. What are you going to use to recruit players with? Tradition? Joe Pa's legacy? There is no more tradition! PSU has no other choice but to bury the past and start over. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if the decision was made to re-name the university!
 
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#75
#75
Of course you feel sad for the people who are there and weren't related to the incident at all. All of PSU will suffer for the actions of the football program and a select few officials who ignored and hid problems.
 
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