Felons No More?

[Rasputin_Vol]

Define lying.

nm

 

[Rickyvol77]

nm

What I was saying is absolutely not for willfully lying. Now making a mistake on a report? Give me an example where you’ve experienced an officer lying on a report. Because I gave you the only one I’ve ever seen myself

 

[KB5252]

I may have a different " permanently " in mind than you do KB. For example, all the commuted death sentences for Capitol murder to life. If they took a life they should forfeit their own.

I've waivered in the death penalty for years. In some extreme cases I'm ok with it. I think we'd probably agree on this based on your response.

 

[Behr]

I’d bet you money that they lowered their hiring standards within the last 10-15 years and that guy had a previous criminal incident

Which proves my point. Don’t hire criminals

Not sure how that proves your point.

On one hand I think it's a bad idea for obvious reasons, but I guess if they are being released anyway and they have to jump through a bunch of hoops to qualify, I can see it being better than just turning them loose again. I mean, they're going to be out anyway. Idk.

 

[hog88]

All for it.

 

[LouderVol]

I agree. I also believe there are some felons that recidivism is their middle name.

What's their other option? Look at this thread people want crimes to be life sentences. Always following them around never allowing them to move on or do anything for themselves.

They are responsible for putting themselves in a bad spot. But society and the laws keep them there.

That's not right.

Either redo sentencing so that a lifetime sentence is part of it, or actually do what the sentencing is and let them move on after serving their time.

I am for this.

 

[LouderVol]

I wouldn’t want felons at either place. I would never hire a criminal. Ever.

The stats show the likelihood of a police officer killing someone especially who is innocent is so low, you’re more likely to get mauled by a bear

Define criminal.

Someone who has broken the law?
Or someone who has been caught breaking the law.

I guarantee you work with "skilled" criminals on a daily basis. Who were good/smart/lucky enough not to get caught.

Your high horse is only skin deep

 

[Septic]

What I was saying is absolutely not for willfully lying. Now making a mistake on a report? Give me an example where you’ve experienced an officer lying on a report. Because I gave you the only one I’ve ever seen myself

Your singular personal anecdote about the moral compass of law enforcement officers is certainly good enough for everyone here. We're all aware of the high regard LE profession has for altruism in practice.

 

[NurseGoodVol]

What's their other option? Look at this thread people want crimes to be life sentences. Always following them around never allowing them to move on or do anything for themselves.

They are responsible for putting themselves in a bad spot. But society and the laws keep them there.

That's not right.

Either redo sentencing so that a lifetime sentence is part of it, or actually do what the sentencing is and let them move on after serving their time.

I am for this.

I am too. I believe there are those who get trapped in the system after 1 wrong because no one will give them a chance.

 

[volbeast33]

I agree. I also believe there are some felons that recidivism is their middle name.

I’m for all this plan as long as it is done correctly.....I think we should make prisons harsher to where it is a true deterrent to where they don’t want to be.

 

[Septic]

Define lying. Knowingly lied on an official report like traffic accident or something. He/she should be written up or worse. Officer lying to make up charges on someone? Fired and sued IMO

I’ve only personally seen one officer I’ve worked with lie on a report (a female rookie) who on her last day of FTO training forgot a phone number from a witness and made up one to put on a report so she wouldn’t get a bad grade from her training. She was fired that day when it was discovered.

Are you talking in third person? It'd explain why you've never seen more, if'n you weren't around to see more LEO shenanigans.

 

[volbeast33]

I wouldn’t want felons at either place. I would never hire a criminal. Ever.

The stats show the likelihood of a police officer killing someone especially who is innocent is so low, you’re more likely to get mauled by a bear

If they are not in jail they need to be able to make a life for themselves bc if you don’t then they will definitely turn to crime.

 

[NurseGoodVol]

I’m for all this plan as long as it is done correctly.....I think we should make prisons harsher to where it is a true deterrent to where they don’t want to be.

It's a recipe for disaster keeping angry men couped up all day. Let them work. Punishment is not supposed to be pleasant.

 

[volbeast33]

It's a recipe for disaster keeping angry men couped up all day. Let them work. Punishment is not supposed to be pleasant.

Yep.... it needs to be where they don’t want to go back

 

[Rickyvol77]

Define criminal.

Someone who has broken the law?
Or someone who has been caught breaking the law.

I guarantee you work with "skilled" criminals on a daily basis. Who were good/smart/lucky enough not to get caught.

Your high horse is only skin deep

drug addicts, thieves, sex offenders, drunks, domestic abusers, those are usually my big ones.

Just because someone is "smart enough to get caught" doesn't mean i would hire someone with that lack of moral/ethical core

 

[Rickyvol77]

Are you talking in third person? It'd explain why you've never seen more, if'n you weren't around to see more LEO shenanigans.

I've never lied on a police report. I HAVE made a mistake and wrote down a VIN number wrong or something and had to go back and correct it.

But i have never lied or seen any officer lie to arrest someone

 

[Rickyvol77]

If they are not in jail they need to be able to make a life for themselves bc if you don’t then they will definitely turn to crime.

And that's fine, i am saying that I wouldn't hire them in my profession, and i wouldn't want them in sensitive positions like firefighters, EMTs, teachers, and police officers

 

[Septic]

I've never lied on a police report. I HAVE made a mistake and wrote down a VIN number wrong or something and had to go back and correct it.

But i have never lied or seen any officer lie to arrest someone

I'm not saying you did it, just that your personal anecdote isn't indicative of a more systemic problem. I think we ALL get it, in your opinion cops are never in the wrong - but reality tells a different story.


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[TennesseeTopHat]

I’d bet you money that they lowered their hiring standards within the last 10-15 years and that guy had a previous criminal incident

Which proves my point. Don’t hire criminals

How does this prove your point? It’s pure speculation with no facts provided.

What do you guys propose as a better solution? The point of jail is rehabilitation and without the ability to get a real job It’s hard to make money.

 

[LouderVol]

drug addicts, thieves, sex offenders, drunks, domestic abusers, those are usually my big ones.

Just because someone is "smart enough to get caught" doesn't mean i would hire someone with that lack of moral/ethical core

But how are you setting that standard? Does it only count if they get caught and charged?
Are you basing your moral judgment on the legalities and or convictions? I dont see how you would know otherwise without a personal relationship.

Because that is a huge gray area. And a very short sighted approach.

A thief does his time, is out for 10 years, keeps clean, and you still want to treat him like a criminal. With that outlook how can you be surprised at recidivism. You have set the standard so they cant be anything BUT a criminal, long after they served their time.

I dont see any form of moral, ethical, or legal justice in such a stance. Either you believe in the system or you dont.

 

[Rickyvol77]

I'm not saying you did it, just that your personal anecdote isn't indicative of a more systemic problem. I think we ALL get it, in your opinion cops are never in the wrong - but reality tells a different story.


Video Shows NYPD Officer Awkwardly Tossing Weed Into Brooklyn Man’s Car
GOTHAMIST • ADDED 10.18.2019 • BROKEN LINK?

Deputy Zachary Wester charged with planting drugs on drivers in Jackson County, Florida “You’re never certain of what lies in the heart of man,” the state's attorney said.
THE WASHINGTON POST • ADDED 07.11.2019 • BROKEN LINK?

Former police officer Zach Wester arrested, accused of planting drugs Former Jackson County Deputy Zach Wester was arrested this morning on numerous charges that he planted street drugs like meth on unsuspecting moto ...
USA TODAY • ADDED 07.11.2019 • BROKEN LINK?

Floridians Are Suing a Cop Fired for Planting Drugs in Their Vehicles Thanks to the diligence of one assistant state attorney, 119 cases were thrown out and the officer is under state investigation.
THEAPPEAL.ORG • ADDED 06.17.2019 • BROKEN LINK?

Documents show investigators didn't know Baltimore officer accused of planting gun had ever been at the scene
THE BALTIMORE SUN • ADDED 03.07.2019 • BROKEN LINK?

Teenager Claims Body-Cams Show the Police Framed Him. What Do You See?
THE NEW YORK TIMES • ADDED 11.19.2018 • BROKEN LINK?

'RUINED LIVES': Drug-planting probe intensifies; those affected speak
TALLAHASSEE.COM • ADDED 09.25.2018 • BROKEN LINK?

Judge releases prisoners as deputy misconduct probe expands
TALLAHASSEE.COM • ADDED 09.24.2018 • BROKEN LINK?

Two men wrongfully imprisoned after fatal crash sue Baltimore Police; will seek $40 million in damages
THE BALTIMORE SUN • ADDED 06.13.2018 • BROKEN LINK?

Public defender: Every case touched by indicted Baltimore gun task force officers 'irreparably tainted'
THE BALTIMORE SUN • ADDED 12.01.2017 • BROKEN LINK?

Baltimore Cops Caught Turning Off Body Cameras Before Finding Drugs
THE DAILY BEAST • ADDED 08.01.2017 • BROKEN LINK?

NYPD Detectives With History Of Alleged Misconduct Accused Of Planting Drugs In Queens Apartment: Gothamist
GOTHAMIST • ADDED 07.26.2017 • BROKEN LINK?

Body camera footage prompts review of 100 Baltimore cases
CNN • ADDED 07.21.2017 • BROKEN LINK?

ok no one said police are NEVER in the wrong, so get out of here with your straw man argument.

There are literally hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers from every type of back ground possible. Just like any other profession you can name, some are idiots, some are great, some are nice, some are a-holes, and some are criminals. But you are referring to instances which make up about .0001% of all law enforcement-police encounters.

 

[Rickyvol77]

How does this prove your point? It’s pure speculation with no facts provided.

What do you guys propose as a better solution? The point of jail is rehabilitation and without the ability to get a real job It’s hard to make money.

I didn't say they shouldn't be allowed to work,

what i said was:

1) I, in an executive position, would never hire someone with a background consisting of theft, drugs, domestic abuse, assault, robbery etc. For several reasons, never have and never will, and surprisingly, I've never had these type issues with my employees.

2) There are several professions that these felons should never be hired in (police, fire fighters, teachers, accountants, pharmacists, EMTs, etc.). It's common sense

 

[Rickyvol77]

But how are you setting that standard? Does it only count if they get caught and charged?
Are you basing your moral judgment on the legalities and or convictions? I dont see how you would know otherwise without a personal relationship.

Because that is a huge gray area. And a very short sighted approach.

A thief does his time, is out for 10 years, keeps clean, and you still want to treat him like a criminal. With that outlook how can you be surprised at recidivism. You have set the standard so they cant be anything BUT a criminal, long after they served their time.

I dont see any form of moral, ethical, or legal justice in such a stance. Either you believe in the system or you dont.

Here's a good example for you, the hospital i work at does stringent hardcore background checks on it's nurses, doctors, Security officers, CNAs, Pharmacists, etc. and there are hardly any instances of theft, assaults, drug use, etc. from these people.

However, we also contract out our janitors, dietary employees, etc. and they have minimal background checks (except for felonies, they are even hired with just misdemeanor stuff on their record from 10 years ago sometimes). Guess what? Those groups are responsible for the majority of thefts, drug use, domestic situations on the job, and being arrested on our campus by a 10-1 margin.

 

[TennesseeTopHat]

edit: not worth it

 

[Rickyvol77]

That’s your opinion. Why can’t someone continue being a firefighter as a civilian if they did a good job as an inmate?

Thanks for acknowledging your baseless claim about how that cop was previously convicted of a crime.

I said it was likely he had previously COMMITTED a crime. People usually don't just start committing felonies in their 30s. I'd be willing to bet money he either had a juvenile record or a shoplifting/theft charge at some point in his life before becoming an officer and they overlooked it as "giving him a 2nd chance" or "he was a kid, it's not that big of a deal"