‘23 FL OT Lucas Simmons (FSU commit)

#526
#526
bigl3327 said:
Serious question here. What do you trust more? The recruiting service evals or our coaches' evals?
Click to expand...

IDK. Didn't we trust Dooley, Butch, and Pruitt evals?

I do trust CHP to get the most out of 3 stars, and he's proven that, than the clowns I first listed.
 
#527
#527
Joe Dirt said:
I’ve been hurt by enough coaching staffs here that I immediately lean services, but I do legitimately think this current staff has a great eye for talent. They coached up players at all positions and I think they’re recruiting guys that fit their system. It’s also interesting to see that guys we’re recruiting all seem to be rising in the rankings as the process goes along, which as Tennessee fans, we’re used to seeing the opposite throughout the cycle. Until Heupel & Co give me a reason to question them, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt on anyone they accept a commitment from.
Click to expand...
👏 Helluva answer. Being dead serious.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TNHopeful505, Palm Beach Vol, OrangeShade and 2 others
#529
#529
peaygolf said:
I'm going with choice #3..............On the field play.
I want team captains, players from winning teams, and guys that put up numbers in HS. Don't give a rats arse about 7on7.
Click to expand...
I don't know what the 7v7 comment was about. That's not real football. As far as players from winning teams, a kid can't help where he lives sometimes and his team sucks. That doesn't change the talent of an individual. On the other side of that, I've seen kids get scholarships because they were on loaded championship winning teams, then never see the field in college.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cncchris33, OrangeShade, drvenner and 2 others
#530
#530
peaygolf said:
I'm going with choice #3..............On the field play.
I want team captains, players from winning teams, and guys that put up numbers in HS. Don't give a rats arse about 7on7.
Click to expand...
This might be a little long, but it's why 7v7 is still important..... Let's say a kid is 6'4" 210 lbs and runs a 4.3 forty. His high school coach runs a wishbone offense and plays him at tight end. His stats are 14 receptions, 300 yards receiving, and 5 TD's. He's never camped and is rated a low 3* by the services. A 7v7 team might be his best shot at being seen as a top flight receiver. It's a hypothetical, but kids like this get missed every year. Then later on we have arguments about how this guy was a low 3* and was a first round pick.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Palm Beach Vol, volthruitall, Volunteer821 and 4 others
#532
#532
It is great to get 4 & 5 star OLs, but the real trick to recruiting OL is to not miss. In other words, the guys you bring in have to develop and contribute no matter how many stars. Every position is this way, but it is crucial for OL and DL. A great OL competes and pushes each other to build depth. One of the primary reasons we have had such inconsistency over the past 15 years is the lack of OL development as a group. Too many misses. Lack of development. Hopefully Elarbee will stay and fix it. Fulmer’s success was due to consistently having a strong OL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BullsGap, Palm Beach Vol, SweetasSoda and 1 other person
#533
#533
bigl3327 said:
This might be a little long, but it's why 7v7 is still important..... Let's say a kid is 6'4" 210 lbs and runs a 4.3 forty. His high school coach runs a wishbone offense and plays him at tight end. His stats are 14 receptions, 300 yards receiving, and 5 TD's. He's never camped and is rated a low 3* by the services. A 7v7 team might be his best shot at being seen as a top flight receiver. It's a hypothetical, but kids like this get missed every year. Then later on we have arguments about how this guy was a low 3* and was a first round pick.
Click to expand...
I’ll buy that……. For exceptions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bigl3327
#534
#534
bigl3327 said:
I don't know what the 7v7 comment was about. That's not real football. As far as players from winning teams, a kid can't help where he lives sometimes and his team sucks. That doesn't change the talent of an individual. On the other side of that, I've seen kids get scholarships because they were on loaded championship winning teams, then never see the field in college.
Click to expand...
I didnt mean for my post to sound like it was all in “absolutes”

just what I’d look for first…..
 
  • Like
Reactions: buckfama and OrangeShade
#536
#536
SSVol said:
Since well more than half of the NFL was not 4 or 5 star, you could theoretically build a championship college team with zero blue chip players. The limitation is purely evaluation and development. Any rational person wants all the blue chippers we can get, but if our coaches accept the commitment of a 3* early in the cycle, they likely did so because they really wanted the player and feel like he is better than his ranking. Sometimes a teachable high character 3* with a high ceiling is more effective than a 5* jerk who won't do the work.

So yes, when they fit, bring me all the 5 stars, but if the coaches like a lower rated guy, I look forward to seeing what they see.
Click to expand...
I think the staff also evaluates how realistic a shot we have with specific players. If they feel they know he won't come, we won't offer and waste the resources.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SSVol, Southern_Accent and SweetasSoda
#539
#539
ABINGDON VOL FAN said:
I’m not arguing against specific 3 stars. I’m talking about the overall star ratings for the Alabama’s and Georgia’s and a couple other teams that routinely make the cut for the 4 team bowl playoff.
Click to expand...

Doesn't change the point. If a savant evaluator were able to identify with accuracy the 3* that goes to the league, and develops him well enough to do so, you could beat teams loaded with 5*. So the statement that it absolutely *requires* 5* players to win is provably false.

Does anyone exist that can do that? Probably not, but I'm sure some are better at it than others. As an example, Martinez has a pretty good track record of putting low ranked players in the NFL, so I'd give him some room to recruit lower ranked players if he wants them.

No doubt, take best every chance you get. I just find the stars argument to be overly simplistic and tiring. It's far more nuanced than either extreme of "stars don't matter" or "stars are all that matter".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hoghater, sjt18 and VolsSince78
#540
#540
SSVol said:
Doesn't change the point. If a savant evaluator were able to identify with accuracy the 3* that goes to the league, and develops him well enough to do so, you could beat teams loaded with 5*. So the statement that it absolutely *requires* 5* players to win is provably false.

Does anyone exist that can do that? Probably not, but I'm sure some are better at it than others. As an example, Martinez has a pretty good track record of putting low ranked players in the NFL, so I'd give him some room to recruit lower ranked players if he wants them.

No doubt, take best every chance you get. I just find the stars argument to be overly simplistic and tiring. It's far more nuanced than either extreme of "stars don't matter" or "stars are all that matter".
Click to expand...

There was this guy, I think he turned out to be pretty good & he was a 3 star…

Cameron Sutton, Pittsburgh, Cornerback

Stars aren’t everything… give me commitment and heart over a star any day
 
  • Like
Reactions: SSVol, berryvol and MrVolton
#543
#543
DrTNT said:
While he didn’t play here, pretty sure J.J. Watt was a 2 star recruit… Seems to me like he panned out pretty well…
Click to expand...
It’s pretty easy to cherry pick recruits that fell through the cracks. There’s a reason SouthPark invented Captain Hindsight. But to your point, JJ Watt was a recruit 15 years ago. It’s completely unreasonable to compare recruiting then against the money, man power, and ✨internet✨ that we have today. The industry is completely different. But when we’re talking about literal thousands of recruits on a yearly basis, of course there will be 3 stars that go under recruited.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vettefool
#544
#544
Joe Dirt said:
It’s pretty easy to cherry pick recruits that fell through the cracks. There’s a reason SouthPark invented Captain Hindsight. But to your point, JJ Watt was a recruit 15 years ago. It’s completely unreasonable to compare recruiting then against the money, man power, and ✨internet✨ that we have today. The industry is completely different. But when we’re talking about literal thousands of recruits on a yearly basis, of course there will be 3 stars that go under recruited.
Click to expand...

And the talent evaluator who could consistently find them would have unfettered access to a gold mine. It isn't wrong to try. It would be wrong to depend on it though.
 
#545
#545
Joe Dirt said:
It’s pretty easy to cherry pick recruits that fell through the cracks. There’s a reason SouthPark invented Captain Hindsight. But to your point, JJ Watt was a recruit 15 years ago. It’s completely unreasonable to compare recruiting then against the money, man power, and ✨internet✨ that we have today. The industry is completely different. But when we’re talking about literal thousands of recruits on a yearly basis, of course there will be 3 stars that go under recruited.
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree, because heart, drive, & commitment are not measurable qualities. They have to be fleshed out in the recruiting process. I mean I would much rather have a team composed of mostly 3 star players who are committed to being the best they can be, who have the heart and the drive with a team first mentality to put in the work to win, over a group of 5 stars who are out to show how good they are individually. I’m not saying every 3 star is destined for greatness or that every 5 star is a showboat, but that’s where the face to face meetings and knowing the qualities you really need are of extreme importance, far more important than what some recruiting service decides to “rank” a player by.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bigl3327
#550
#550
Joe Dirt said:
It’s pretty easy to cherry pick recruits that fell through the cracks. There’s a reason SouthPark invented Captain Hindsight. But to your point, JJ Watt was a recruit 15 years ago. It’s completely unreasonable to compare recruiting then against the money, man power, and ✨internet✨ that we have today. The industry is completely different. But when we’re talking about literal thousands of recruits on a yearly basis, of course there will be 3 stars that go under recruited.
Click to expand...
Services are much better than they have been in the past as well. Still suck compared to actual scouts but much better these days. High schools are scouting and adding elite players nationally as well.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top