Football Postseason: College and Pros could learn from each other

#1
TennNC

TennNC

a lover, not a fighter
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#1
With all the talk about how screwed up the college football postseason is, how the bowl games are unfair and we really need a playoff, I'm struck by how "fair" the pro system is.

11-5 New England, who beat 9-7 Arizona by 40 pts (the most lopsided game of the season), does not make the playoffs.

9-7 Arizona not only makes the playoffs, but gets to host the first-round game against 11-5 Atlanta.

8-8 San Diego, who lost to 12-4 Indy earlier in the season, gets to host Indy at San Diego in the first round of the playoffs.

What's more egregious? The fact that NE doesn't make the playoffs and Atlanta and Indy have to play road games despite their records? Or the fact that these mediocre teams not only get to play in the postseason, but get to do so ON THEIR HOME FIELD, WITH THEIR HOME CROWD?

If the NCAA were to copy the NFL system, you'd have a playoff, which everyone should cheer, right? In such a scenario you're likely to get a team like Texas (11-1) playing AT Virginia Tech (9-4). Or Alabama (12-1 in the SEC) playing AT Cincinnati (11-2 in the Big East).

Does that sound fair?

College football gets it right by holding postseason games in neutral sites. Pro football gets it right by going to a playoff. The two should get together and improve their systems.
 
#2
#2
this is one of those fluky years in the NFL.......it's the first time an 11 win team is left out of the post season since 85 or something.......so this doesn't happen very often.

but it does kind of suck for some of those teams.

i can say this though, as a Steeler fan, and having beaten the RAvens twice already in the regular season, and winning the division, the thought of having to beat them a 3rd time in the C'ship game to go to the super bowl...........sucks out loud.

but the flip side to that is, does anyone really think the Ravens aren't deserving of being in the playoffs? no, they deserve it.

but this has been one of those years in the NFL regular season you just don't see very often.
 
#3
#3
what happened to new england is probably just incredibly bad luck. like the san francisco giants when they won more than 100 games and finished behind the braves. still, i can't help thinking san diego didn't deserve to make the playoffs. baltimore? absolutely they deserve it.

stillers having to beat the same team 3 times is just bad luck too.

what happened to indy and atlanta is a screw job. having to play an away game against a team with a much worse record is a crock.

the nfl should mandate that all wild card games are played at a neutral site. then allow home-field advantage until the super bowl - that seems fair.
 
#4
#4
then that would make winning your division meaningless. part of the success of the NFL, and why it's regular season is still important is that division winners get an automtic bid to the playoffs and a home game.

winning the division has to still count for something, even if you did it at 8-8.

remember, for a team like AZ and SD........their entire division was bad. either of those teams don't win the AFC East or NFC South etc....

but, in the end, say San Diego goes on to beat Pittsburgh, and Tennessee, and then the Giants in the Super Bowl.......would you consider that not worthy?

if nothing else, to win the championship as that 8-8 type team, they make it difficult. the odds are stacked against them, and AZ, doing that.

that's why only one team has won 3 road games in the playoffs....ever.
 
#6
#6
the NFL system is perfect the way it is.

no need to change it after a one off year where a couple of division winners have 8-9 win seasons.

if they changed anything, it should be the OT format.
 
#10
#10
doozer said:
the NFL system is perfect the way it is.

no need to change it after a one off year where a couple of division winners have 8-9 win seasons.

if they changed anything, it should be the OT format.
Click to expand...

I disagree vehemently with the first sentence. if it's perfect, then why aren't people proposing that college football follow the exact same route? why not give Va Tech home field advantage against Texas in a college football playoff, e.g.?

I agree vehemently with the last part of the last sentence.
 
#11
#11
TennNC said:
I disagree vehemently with the first sentence. if it's perfect, then why aren't people proposing that college football follow the exact same route? why not give Va Tech home field advantage against Texas in a college football playoff, e.g.?

I agree vehemently with the last part of the last sentence.
Click to expand...

You can't model the proposed Collegiate playoff system off of the NFL's simply because nothing in the NCAA is centralized outside of Conferences... of which there are 6 instead of 2. It would be madness trying to figure out seedings when factoring in SoS.

That's not even factoring in the Independents and non-BCS conference folks.
 
#12
#12
TennNC said:
wrong.

it would give you a ticket to the playoffs - that's enough meaning for any team that finishes 8-8.
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how is it wrong? you win your division, you get a home playoff game....that's kind of a big deal.

what's the point of winning your division if all it means is you get a neutral site game, potentially against a division opponent you've already beaten?

there has to be some advantage for winning your division. that has to matter.

plus, what do you tell fans that have season tickets and pay for playoff games at home,....now they have to travel?

sorry, but that's a terrible idea.
 
#13
#13
TennNC said:
I disagree vehemently with the first sentence. if it's perfect, then why aren't people proposing that college football follow the exact same route? why not give Va Tech home field advantage against Texas in a college football playoff, e.g.?

I agree vehemently with the last part of the last sentence.
Click to expand...
there's 32 teams in 8 divisions, 2 conf. in the NFL. the winners of each play each other for the title.

there's119 teams in 11 conf, plus independents in Div 1A college football.

there's no way you could put the NFL system in to college and it work the same way.
 
#15
#15
jakez4ut said:
how is it wrong? you win your division, you get a home playoff game....that's kind of a big deal.

what's the point of winning your division if all it means is you get a neutral site game, 1 ) potentially against a division opponent you've already beaten?

2) there has to be some advantage for winning your division. that has to matter.

3) plus, what do you tell fans that have season tickets and pay for playoff games at home,....now they have to travel?

sorry, but that's a terrible idea.
Click to expand...

1) first off, I believe no two teams from the same division are allowed to play each other in the first round, correct? so this scenario can't happen.

2) do you honestly think san diego felt they deserved home field advantage in the playoffs against indy? "yeah, we went 8-8, and sure, they beat us on our own field and won 4 more games than we did, but dammit, we won our division! The grueling AFC West!"

How about this - win your division, and if your division is one of the two best in the conference, then guess what? you get home field advantage! Otherwise, be grateful that you got in with a crappy record while another team with 3 more wins than you has to stay home. that's your advantage for winning a crappy division.

3) what does the NCAA tell college football season ticket holders? answer: you have to travel. what's the difference? why shouldn't Va Tech get to host a game? They won their league, after all? What's the motivation for them if they don't get to play at home?
 
#16
#16
jakez4ut said:
there's 32 teams in 8 divisions, 2 conf. in the NFL. the winners of each play each other for the title.

there's119 teams in 11 conf, plus independents in Div 1A college football.

there's no way you could put the NFL system in to college and it work the same way.
Click to expand...

that's not what I'm proposing. I'm saying they both need to take lessons from the other.

In college ball, have a playoff among the top 8 teams. 1 v 8, 2 v 7, etc. Perhaps the first-round game gives home-field advantage. After that, they're on neutral sites. Though, I think it should be neutral sites all the way, like the NCAA tourney.

In the NFL, take away home field advantage for the Wild Card round. Unless you're one of the two best teams, you don't deserve home field advantage. Can you honestly tell me Arizona, Minnesota, San Diego and Miami "deserved" home field advantage?
 
#18
#18
TennNC said:
1) first off, I believe no two teams from the same division are allowed to play each other in the first round, correct? so this scenario can't happen.

2) do you honestly think san diego felt they deserved home field advantage in the playoffs against indy? "yeah, we went 8-8, and sure, they beat us on our own field and won 4 more games than we did, but dammit, we won our division! The grueling AFC West!"

How about this - win your division, and if your division is one of the two best in the conference, then guess what? you get home field advantage! Otherwise, be grateful that you got in with a crappy record while another team with 3 more wins than you has to stay home. that's your advantage for winning a crappy division.

3) what does the NCAA tell college football season ticket holders? answer: you have to travel. what's the difference? why shouldn't Va Tech get to host a game? They won their league, after all? What's the motivation for them if they don't get to play at home?
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1, no that's not correct. division opponents will play each other based on seeding, nothing more. a few years ago, Pittsburgh had to play Cleveland in the wild card round, 1 week after beating them in the last game of the season. no such rule exists.

2. fortunately, it has nothing to do with how anyone "feels" they won the AFC west. Indy didn't win their division. the only tweek you may be able to get away with, and i'd be against it because i do believe winning the division should mean something, would be to seed the playoff teams based on w/l record, not division winners/wild card teams.

3. college fans only have 1 game to worry about......the bowl game. NFL fans may only get 1 shot a home playoff game, out of a possible total of 3, and the rest be on the road then the superbowl. it's simply not fair to take that away.


the other thing i think you're missing in this is that this year's NFL post season is an anomoly. it's been 20+ years since an 11 win team was left out of the playoffs, and i think it's been a good while since an 8-8 team has won a division.
 
#19
#19
TennNC said:
that's not what I'm proposing. I'm saying they both need to take lessons from the other.

In college ball, have a playoff among the top 8 teams. 1 v 8, 2 v 7, etc. Perhaps the first-round game gives home-field advantage. After that, they're on neutral sites. Though, I think it should be neutral sites all the way, like the NCAA tourney.

In the NFL, take away home field advantage for the Wild Card round. Unless you're one of the two best teams, you don't deserve home field advantage. Can you honestly tell me Arizona, Minnesota, San Diego and Miami "deserved" home field advantage?
Click to expand...
yes, over the teams they played, that didn't win their division, yes, they deserved a home game.

as for the college 1-8 playoff, i'm completely against that.......what's the only qualifier for getting in, just being ranked in the top 8?

because one group of people says you're one of the top 8 teams, you get in a playoff? how is that better than what the team did during the season, a la winning their division?

the one great thing about the NFL system is it is completely objective. if you win, you're in. there's no committee, no poll, no computer, no campaigning......
 
#20
#20
jakez4ut said:
1, no that's not correct. division opponents will play each other based on seeding, nothing more. a few years ago, Pittsburgh had to play Cleveland in the wild card round, 1 week after beating them in the last game of the season. no such rule exists.
Click to expand...

In 2006 you guys beat us in the first round at our place. There was another reference to this game by me somewhere in this thread. :realmad:
 
#21
#21
doozer said:
yes.

because they won their division.
Click to expand...

screw the divisions. if your division sucks, who cares?

in the ncaa hoops tourney, most conferences only get one team in. know why? those conferences suck. and the "champions" of those conferences aren't given an unfair advantage as a result of "winning" a bad conference.

winning quality games should be far more important than being the least crappy of a random group of crappy teams.

san diego didn't win a single game against a team that made the playoffs. they certainly shouldn't have been able to host a playoff game.

the colts beat 5 playoff teams during the regular season, won the second most games of any team in the entire league, and had to play on the road in round 1.

that's bollocks.
 
#22
#22
jakez4ut said:
the other thing i think you're missing in this is that this year's NFL post season is an anomoly. it's been 20+ years since an 11 win team was left out of the playoffs, and i think it's been a good while since an 8-8 team has won a division.
Click to expand...

I don't care that it's an anomaly. I care that it gives one team an unfair advantage over another and therefore potentially taints the way the champion is determined.
 
#23
#23
TennNC - you're comparing the NFL playoffs 32 teams to college with 119. Your argument should stop there.
 
#24
#24
TennNC said:
I don't care that it's an anomaly. I care that it gives one team an unfair advantage over another and therefore potentially taints the way the champion is determined.
Click to expand...

Good teams find a way to win
 
#25
#25
jakez4ut said:
1) as for the college 1-8 playoff, i'm completely against that.......what's the only qualifier for getting in, just being ranked in the top 8?

because one group of people says you're one of the top 8 teams, you get in a playoff? how is that better than what the team did during the season, a la winning their division?

2) the one great thing about the NFL system is it is completely objective. if you win, you're in. there's no committee, no poll, no computer, no campaigning......
Click to expand...

1) yes. if you proved over the course of a season that you're one of the 8 best teams, you make it. if you haven't proven that, you don't. This year it'd be Okla, Texas, Fla, Ala, USC, Utah, Penn St. and Texas Tech. Sorry, Cincy. Sorry, Va Tech. Sorry, Ohio St. Those were the 8 best at the end of the reg. season, and there wouldn't be much dispute over that.

2) if this were true, the Pats would make the playoffs and the Chargers wouldn't. The Pats won. But b/c they were being compared to better teams, they're out. SD, on the other hand, was being compared to bad teams, and they got in, even though they lost as many as they won.
 
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