For the Tennessee football history guys...

[slobberknocker]

From 1958-1964, the Vols were absolutely miserable and played in no bowl games. Finally, in 1965, Doug Dickey won what is in my opinion the biggest bowl victory in TN football history (a win over Tulsa in the Bluebonnet Bowl), saved TN football, and launched the glory days all you kids remember. I would compare the team to the 1964 team--one good class away from the start of something good.

That was the first TN game I ever watched on TV, an old B&W Motorola I think. Picture was as fuzzy as my brain is today.

 

[1972 Grad]

That was the first TN game I ever watched on TV, an old B&W Motorola I think. Picture was as fuzzy as my brain is today.

Go to youtube.com and type in 1965 Bluebonnet Bowl. There is quite a lot of black and white footage from that game. Notice how Tulsa went from dark jerseys in the first half to white ones in the second. It was a mud game.

 

[slobberknocker]

Yep, I remember now how bad the weather was. Football is made for outside, but I'm old school obviously.

 

[orangebloodgmc]

You speak the truth. I am 63 , and I told my wife the other day that when you get to your 60's, you can go at any time. I stated thinking of this after a class reunion when I found out that almost 40 out of 222 are dead.

I hear ya. I will turn 58 in a couple months. We have our 40th class reunion this fall, and several classmates are already gone. 1966 was first year I paid attention to UT football. :question:

 

[BSOVOL1967]

I'm 46 and in my opinion, this current version of Tennessee football is very similiar to the mid to late 70's UT football. Constantly rebuilding there for a long time with Coach Majors because of the lack of talent left by Coach Battle. Ideally, a big win this year over a big time opponent, like Bama, Florida, Georgia, Oregon, etc.. would naturally help us in an immeasurable way. A win over one of those teams in 2013 would make feel like I did when The Big Orange crushed Notre Dame in 1979, 40 - 18, that Tennessee football was on the way back. UT finished 7-5 in 1979 and played Purdue in the Bluebonnet Bowl, who had been ranked in the top 10 that year. UT lost 27-22 but Tennessee football was slowly coming back...

 

[tm3]

lots of great nostalgia in this thread ...

as far as the OP, given that it has been 100 years since TN had 3 losing seasons in a row i don't think anyone can personally recall what might match the current situation.

bill battle had UT on a downward trend, but never had a losing season. probably the closest in the more modern era is right before dickey arrived.

i have seen it stated that majors' first recruiting class was one of the best assembled by any team, ever. there were no ranking services back then but i believe he had a couple of Parade all americans which was unprecedented. hopefully CBJ can load up and get on track faster than Johnny did.

the thing i remember about Puki was when ND came calling in 79. the game was still in question with ND having a 4th down on the 1 yard line. they went for it, giving the ball to their heistman candidate RB (ND always has a heistman candidate). Puki stopped him over the middle with one of those hits that made Neyland reverberate, and from that point on the game was over.

 

[checkerboards09]

I hope this thread keeps going for a long time. I'm enjoying the insight about teams back in the day.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

Excellent insights and it is good to be able to finally recognize more of my fellow “gray beard” cohort of Tennessee fans. Personally, I will withhold judgment for one year to determine precisely which period in Tennessee history is most comparable to what we are currently facing. Why? In order to allow the smoke to clear from an historically bad defensive performance and better assess just where we are in terms of overall talent on that side of the line of scrimmage. We all know that last year we had serious deficiencies in terms of team speed at key positions; they also were adjusting to a defensive scheme for which they were not recruited, one that was exacerbated by inept coaching. The proverbial $64,000 question is how much of a bounceback can we realistically expect with better coaching and a return to the familiar 4-3 scheme. If we post numbers similar to those that we amassed during Wilcox’s season, then that would suggest that the situation, in terms of talent, is not as dire on the defensive side of the ball as last year’s stats would suggest. The answer to this question, at this point, is, of course, anybody’s guess.

In comparing the situation to the beginning of Dickey’s tenure, I would like to throw out a few stats that will give our younger readers a greater appreciation for just how radical—and quickly—Dickey revamped the offense. As previously noted, we were the last team in the country to give up the General's beloved single-wing and had lost two local quarterback prospects, Steve Spurrier and Steve Sloan, because they could see no place for themselves in our then-antiquated offense. Two years after the installation of Dickey's offense, Dewey Warren became the nation's most efficient passer in 1966.

To demonstrate just how thoroughly Dickey revamped Tennessee's offense, consider the following facts: From 1950 to 1965, no Tennessee player threw more than 79 passes, completed more than 44 attempts, passed for more than 588 yds. or hurled more than 8 touchdown passes. Then, in '66, Dewey Warren attempted 229 passes, of which 136 were complete for 1716 yds. and 18 touchdowns.

During the same period, no Tennessee receiver had caught more than 23 passes or amassed more than 357 yds. receiving in a single season. Then, in 1966, Johnny Mills had 48 receptions for 725 yds. and 4 tds., including a monumental 225-yd. performance against Kentucky, which remains the 3rd most yards in a single game by a Tennessee receiver.

By analogy, you might call that transition comparable to going from a Model T Ford to a Corvette . . . in two years. Personally, I hope that the initial years of Butch’s tenure bear more resemblance to Dickey’s career path than that of Johnny Majors. Bill Battle was one of the finest PEOPLE we have ever had to occupy the position of head coach at UT, and, yes, he amassed three 10+ win seasons during his first three years on the job, largely with players recruited by Doug Dickey and largely because of great defenses. The talent pool, however, went downhill rapidly because he was not a competent recruiter.

When Johnny came marching home again in 1977, he issued the famous “the cupboard is bare” comment in describing the quality of personnel that he inherited. Because of those three initial years, Battle actually had a significantly higher winning percentage than Johnny amassed at UT, but it took eight years before Majors returned Tennessee to national prominence with the 1985 season, one that culminated with, perhaps, the single most inspired performance that I have ever seen from a Tennessee football team, a 35-7 annihilation of 2nd-ranked Miami. It took even longer before Tennessee was consistently a force to be reckoned with on the national landscape. That came with back-to-back SEC titles in 1989-90. In short, Battle oversaw the most precipitous decline in Tennessee football fortunes in the last 40 years, with the exception of the last five years. Johnny stated that, in all fairness, the situation that Dooley inherited was probably even worse than what Battle left for him to clean up.

 

[1972 Grad]

Excellent insights and it is good to be able to finally recognize more of my fellow “gray beard” cohort of Tennessee fans. Personally, I will withhold judgment for one year to determine precisely which period in Tennessee history is most comparable to what we are currently facing. Why? In order to allow the smoke to clear from an historically bad defensive performance and better assess just where we are in terms of overall talent on that side of the line of scrimmage. We all know that last year we had serious deficiencies in terms of team speed at key positions; they also were adjusting to a defensive scheme for which they were not recruited, one that was exacerbated by inept coaching. The proverbial $64,000 question is how much of a bounceback can we realistically expect with better coaching and a return to the familiar 4-3 scheme. If we post numbers similar to those that we amassed during Wilcox’s season, then that would suggest that the situation, in terms of talent, is not as dire on the defensive side of the ball as last year’s stats would suggest. The answer to this question, at this point, is, of course, anybody’s guess.

In comparing the situation to the beginning of Dickey’s tenure, I would like to throw out a few stats that will give our younger readers a greater appreciation for just how radical—and quickly—Dickey revamped the offense. As previously noted, we were the last team in the country to give up the General's beloved single-wing and had lost two local quarterback prospects, Steve Spurrier and Steve Sloan, because they could see no place for themselves in our then-antiquated offense. Two years after the installation of Dickey's offense, Dewey Warren became the nation's most efficient passer in 1966.

To demonstrate just how thoroughly Dickey revamped Tennessee's offense, consider the following facts: From 1950 to 1965, no Tennessee player threw more than 79 passes, completed more than 44 attempts, passed for more than 588 yds. or hurled more than 8 touchdown passes. Then, in '66, Dewey Warren attempted 229 passes, of which 136 were complete for 1716 yds. and 18 touchdowns.

During the same period, no Tennessee receiver had caught more than 23 passes or amassed more than 357 yds. receiving in a single season. Then, in 1966, Johnny Mills had 48 receptions for 725 yds. and 4 tds., including a monumental 225-yd. performance against Kentucky, which remains the 3rd most yards in a single game by a Tennessee receiver.

By analogy, you might call that transition comparable to going from a Model T Ford to a Corvette . . . in two years. Personally, I hope that the initial years of Butch’s tenure bear more resemblance to Dickey’s career path than that of Johnny Majors. Bill Battle was one of the finest PEOPLE we have ever had to occupy the position of head coach at UT, and, yes, he amassed three 10+ win seasons during his first three years on the job, largely with players recruited by Doug Dickey and largely because of great defenses. The talent pool, however, went downhill rapidly because he was not a competent recruiter.

When Johnny came marching home again in 1977, he issued the famous “the cupboard is bare” comment in describing the quality of personnel that he inherited. Because of those three initial years, Battle actually had a significantly higher winning percentage than Johnny amassed at UT, but it took eight years before Majors returned Tennessee to national prominence with the 1985 season, one that culminated with, perhaps, the single most inspired performance that I have ever seen from a Tennessee football team, a 35-7 annihilation of 2nd-ranked Miami. It took even longer before Tennessee was consistently a force to be reckoned with on the national landscape. That came with back-to-back SEC titles in 1989-90. In short, Battle oversaw the most precipitous decline in Tennessee football fortunes in the last 40 years, with the exception of the last five years. Johnny stated that, in all fairness, the situation that Dooley inherited was probably even worse than what Battle left for him to clean up.

Excellent post, and you know your history. I am one of the few who thought that Dooley did as well as could have been expected, considering the situation.

The first year Dooley had very little depth, and a hastily assembled staff and recruiting class. He actually upgraded our talent, but as freshmen go, they usually aren't a whole lot of help. Still, we went to a bowl game. I remember Kiffin saying that his second season would be a big challenge.

Then we go into year two of Dooley with his players becoming sophomores, and basically the same coaching staff. After the second game against Cincinnati, I was convinced that we were on the right track. That turned out to be the ONLY game that Dooley coached with a cohesive, competent staff on both sides of the ball, and all of his weapons healthy. When Hunter went down in the next game against Florida, the team went into shock and never recovered. Then Bray goes down later, and of course Janzen Jackson had already been dismissed, and Herman Lathers was out for the year.

By the second half of the season, Dooley had lost his arguably his best 2 defenders(Jackson and Lathers), and his best 2 offensive players( Bray and Hunter). Of course 2 highly ranked running backs(Brown and Oku), who were brought in by Kiffin, decided to leave before that second season started. After running the gauntlet against several top teams while being shorthanded, the team seemed shell shocked, and they gave up at the end of the year.

Then staff defections, for whatever reason, forced a complete rebooting of the team, which proved Dooley's undoing for season 3. Maybe the defections were all Dooley's fault. Maybe the staff saw the handwriting on the wall due to a lack of depth of talent, and decided to move on. Maybe it was a dysfunctional football family with a couple of stars , who were necessary for success, and they couldn't be pushed because they knew the coaches had nobody to replace them with. It may be that the inmates ran the asylum into the ground. Time to move on. We will overcome this period.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

Excellent post, and you know your history. I am one of the few who thought that Dooley did as well as could have been expected, considering the situation.

The first year Dooley had very little depth, and a hastily assembled staff and recruiting class. He actually upgraded our talent, but as freshmen go, they usually aren't a whole lot of help. Still, we went to a bowl game. I remember Kiffin saying that his second season would be a big challenge.

Then we go into year two of Dooley with his players becoming sophomores, and basically the same coaching staff. After the second game against Cincinnati, I was convinced that we were on the right track. That turned out to be the ONLY game that Dooley coached with a cohesive, competent staff on both sides of the ball, and all of his weapons healthy. When Hunter went down in the next game against Florida, the team went into shock and never recovered. Then Bray goes down later, and of course Janzen Jackson had already been dismissed, and Herman Lathers was out for the year.

By the second half of the season, Dooley had lost his arguably his best 2 defenders(Jackson and Lathers), and his best 2 offensive players( Bray and Hunter). Of course 2 highly ranked running backs(Brown and Oku), who were brought in by Kiffin, decided to leave before that second season started. After running the gauntlet against several top teams while being shorthanded, the team seemed shell shocked, and they gave up at the end of the year.

Then staff defections, for whatever reason, forced a complete rebooting of the team, which proved Dooley's undoing for season 3. Maybe the defections were all Dooley's fault. Maybe the staff saw the handwriting on the wall due to a lack of depth of talent, and decided to move on. Maybe it was a dysfunctional football family with a couple of stars , who were necessary for success, and they couldn't be pushed because they knew the coaches had nobody to replace them with. It may be that the inmates ran the asylum into the ground. Time to move on. We will overcome this period.

I agree completely with your assessment of Dooley's overall performance. For all of the things that he can legitimately be criticized for, Dooley had an inordinately bad run of luck at key positions and in terms of coaching turnover. I can't provide citations, but I do recall statements by proverbial insiders that this was regarded by the powers that be as a "5-year rebuild" and the first guy, who had the deck stacked against him at that time, would receive the lion's share of blame. So many people conveniently forget that Dooley had a subterranean crater that he had to first fill with pseudo-SEC caliber bodies just to get us back up to an even playing field, IN TERMS OF NUMBERS. When you have lost virtually an entire recruiting class (18-20) as a result of the attrition associated with the Fulmer-Kiffin-Dooley turnstile, even that process takes time. As a fanbase, unfortunately, we can be notoriously cannibalistic in terms of our support for our coaching staff. Johnny realized that a long time ago and dubbed that segment of the Volunteer Nation the "Legions of the Miserable."

 

[onevol74]

I too am going to go with the transition of Battle to Majors.

First I'll start with a QB comparison. In 1976, Randy Wallace was the starting QB, he also took over the role in 1975. He played for two full seasons similar to Bray and behind him on the depth chart was Joe Hough, Pat Ryan and Jimmie Streater. Hough and Ryan were our Worley and Peterman. Streater would end up starting in '77. Yet to be determined if Dobbs or Ferguson can be Jimmy Streater.

We lose Stanley Morgan and Larry Seivers after '76, which compares to having to replace Patterson and Hunter. Both Morgan (1st round) and Seivers (4th round) were drafted.

Hubert Simpson and Kelsey Finch (who I got to meet!) were serviceable and experienced backs like Lane and Neil. Certainly not up there with, Webb, Cobb, Hayden, Stewart, Henry, etc...

Defensively, we lose Puki and Spiva after 76 and the defensive line is going to be a bit of an unknown going into '77. Craig Puki is one of my favorite Vols, I was 10 years old and when he'd make a tackle Neyland would erupt with "PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUKI". Vol fans transferred the "UUUUUUU" sound to Jimmy NOOOOOOONAN in '77...the first time I saw Mo Couch I thought of Jimmy Noonan.

I think the current D-line is in a bit better shape, LB's too. I'd say the DB situation is equivalent, though I think I'd take Roland James over the DB's I saw last year, Randolph is close.

As for the kicking game, well, we had Craig Colquitt...He went in the 3rd round to the Steelers. Who drafts a kicker in the 3rd round?!! Suffice to say, we don't have that currently.

Heck, we had to play Oregon St. in '77(beat them but lost to Cal in the season opener) and Auburn was on the schedule as well. We went 4-7 in '77 with the lone SEC victory being a 42-7 season ending win over Vanderbilt. I'm hoping Butch Jones can do a bit better, but I saw a thread the other day that predicted 4 wins...pretty similar all the way around. GBO!

We have a much better offensive line this year but the rest of that scenario is spot on.

 

[vol66]

We have a much better offensive line this year but the rest of that scenario is spot on.

I agree. I was reminded today that Stanley Morgan is still the only player in Tennessee history to rush for 1000yards and have receptions for 1000 yards. His all purpose yardage was incredible. Had CP stayed one more year, he might have had those kind of numbers, but I had forgotten that Morgan lined up in the backfield as a legit RB.

 

[WoodstockVol]

the 1977 team

 

[tm3]

i kept thinking about the '79 ND game ...

it was especially exciting because i hate ND, my girlfriend was seeing the vols in neyland for the first time, and i had seats 40 rows up in section D.

the only damper on the game was the dude sitting right in front of us. he was blind drunk at the kickoff, and every few minutes would stand up and yell, "i HATE ND. do you know why i hate ND? i hate ND because i am an oklahoma fan and ND broke the sooners' 47 game winning streak ..."

fortunately he passed out sometime in the 3rd quarter.

 

[thebjd]

The way some posters talk about Dobbs and Ferguson I am thinking 1994 without the two headed monster at tailback. A talented junior QB left for the NFL. Does that make Worley Helton or Colquitt?

 

[Coach Grizz]

I have to agree with Orange by birth on the 64/65 era team, because I am also one of the "old farts." Back to Doug's Rug. If my memory is correct, the first game on the rug was the opening game of my sophomore year in 1968 against Georgia. We rallied to tie 17-17 with about a 20 yard pass, and a 2 point conversion as the clock ran completely out.

We scored in the North endzone going toward the Hill. I have never been happier with a tie, at least until Carlos Reveiz kicked a 51 yard field goal, also going toward the Hill to tie Ga Tech 6-6 in 1985. The difference was that I thought we were sunk in 85 , based upon our offensive performance in that game without TRob. That team turned out to be a great football team, as did the 68 team..

A guy named DeLong caught the game tying pass. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[1972 Grad]

A guy named DeLong caught the game tying pass. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Without looking it up, I'm thinking that DeLong caught the 2 point conversion to tie, and maybe Gary Kreis caught the TD. I get my DeLongs, as well as my Reveiz's, and Colquitts cofused. I don't remember which was Keith and which was Kenny.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

Guys, remember that this was the first game on Tartan Turf and Georgia protested vehemently against playing on artificial turf, even threatening to boycott the game. According to John Ward, Gary Kreis caught the touchdown pass to pull within 2 pts., and Kenny DeLong, younger brother of Outland Trophy winner, Steve DeLong, caught the tying 2-pt. conversion pass. For his account of this game, begin at the 13:00 mark of John Ward & Bill Anderson's 10 Greatest Games (Tennessee Vols) - YouTube. For a hilarious story of how Doug Atkins helped Bill Anderson make the Washington Redskins’ roster by deliberately making it look like Anderson was able to consistently block Atkins in a preseason game, tune in to the 5:30 mark of John Ward & Bill Anderson's 10 Greatest Games (Tennessee Vols) - YouTube.

 

[VolBraniac]

Holy crap there's some old farts in here.





Just kiddin guys...

PPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTT :loco:

 

[VolBraniac]

I have to agree with Orange by birth on the 64/65 era team, because I am also one of the "old farts." Back to Doug's Rug. If my memory is correct, the first game on the rug was the opening game of my sophomore year in 1968 against Georgia. We rallied to tie 17-17 with about a 20 yard pass, and a 2 point conversion as the clock ran completely out.

We scored in the North endzone going toward the Hill. I

You're right. In '70 (?) they replaced the old rug with a new rug courtesy of 3M. The old rug was growing long, black stripes of algae.

The Tyranny Of Phony Fields - 08.12.85 - SI Vault

Originally Tartan "Turf" was for racing horse venues. :no: but was sold as more practical and that there would be less knee injuries. Less because you couldn't lock your cleats as in the grass turf. Pure bull****. :wacko:

Or was/is it?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7356798

What about the long-lasting qualities? Bob Woodruff, athletic director of the University of Tennessee, says, "Let's face it: The longer you have an artificial surface, the harder it gets. They really should be replaced every five or six years, and some schools just can't afford it."

 

[Volru]

The experience of the offensive line is like 1985. Expectations were low going into that year too. That in my opinion, that was the singular benchmark year that set the stage for the ascent to the top.

 

[governmentmule]

Go to youtube.com and type in 1965 Bluebonnet Bowl. There is quite a lot of black and white footage from that game. Notice how Tulsa went from dark jerseys in the first half to white ones in the second. It was a mud game.

i miss the old mud games,the fields are to well drained these days,to see another mud slinger of a game lol

 

[photovol]

I don't think UT has ever been this far down, at least not in the last 30 years. I can't even begin to think of a Vol squad that was rated 13th out of a possible 14 in the SEC.....scary, scary, with possibly only a 4 win season ahead.....indeed scary