Fox News cut live feed of Obama debate with GOP halfway through

#27
#27
T-TownVol said:
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People's opinions change in a year. (See the Mass election)
Your "ideal political world" is....wait for it.........horseshat :)
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So our government should instantly respond to the under-informed emotional responses by the masses on every issue? Your "extremely flawed political world" is donkeyfedora :)
 
#29
#29
alwaysorange81 said:
So our government should instantly respond to the under-informed emotional responses by the masses on every issue? Your "extremely flawed political world" is donkeyfedora :)
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That is what controlled the last election. Therefore, the Dems have the MAJORITY.
(see how that works?)
 
#30
#30
T-TownVol said:
That is what controlled the last election. Therefore, the Dems have the MAJORITY.
(see how that works?)
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2 yrs to decide is a world of difference from 2 months. Also that is entirely your opinion. The last congressional election was the same as every election before it, so you can say the same thing for the GOP in the 90's.
 
#31
#31
alright guys, great discussion, but I got diapers need changin n movies need watchin so hope to talk with you guys again in the future. Thanx for the perspective.
 
#32
#32
alwaysorange81 said:
2 yrs to decide is a world of difference from 2 months. Also that is entirely your opinion. The last congressional election was the same as every election before it, so you can say the same thing for the GOP in the 90's.
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You must be young. The Dems have been trying to install government healthcare since Clinton, and on a much smaller scale, before him.
This is nothing more than a "government knows best" power grab disguised as "what the people want".
 
#33
#33
Actually, I may be in the minority on this... but I kind of got a kick out of Obama's little exchange yesterday. I still think his ideas are destructive to this country, but he did make one very valid point. He said that for the most part, the US's two parties are really not that far apart from one another, unlike in other countries where the differences in two or more parties are more stark. I agree with this statement... there's very little differnce when all is said and done between a Democrat and a Republican.

That's why the system is broken and needs to change.
 
#34
#34
T-TownVol said:
You must be young. The Dems have been trying to install government healthcare since Clinton, and on a much smaller scale, before him.
This is nothing more than a "government knows best" power grab disguised as "what the people want".
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Not just the health care issue (I remember Hillary and her mistakes, Bill's apparent disinterest.) But talking about governance on a whole as a theory and a practical matter when it comes to effecting positive change through balanced and smart legislation.
 
#35
#35
alwaysorange81 said:
Not just the health care issue (I remember Hillary and her mistakes, Bill's apparent disinterest.) But talking about governance on a whole as a theory and a practical matter when it comes to effecting positive change through balanced and smart legislation.
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when all else fails, find your copy of the US Constitution and read Article I, Section 8. There, you'll find the 18 things the Federal Government is allowed to provide under the auspices of both the "general welfare" and the "necessary and proper" clauses.
 
#36
#36
MG1968 said:
when all else fails, find your copy of the US Constitution and read Article I, Section 8. There, you'll find the 18 things the Federal Government is allowed to provide under the auspices of both the "general welfare" and the "necessary and proper" clauses.
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Now why the heck did you have to pull the ole' Constitution card on him. That is not what the MAJORITY wants. :)
 
#37
#37
So now its a constitutional conversation?? Can only really cover 1 or 2 topics at a time. But if you wanna jump from the legislative process, to the democratic process, over to recent political history, and finally down through Constitutional analysis political ideology, then have at it. But try and keep it clear which one your talking about.
 
#39
#39
Rasputin_Vol said:
Actually, I may be in the minority on this... but I kind of got a kick out of Obama's little exchange yesterday. I still think his ideas are destructive to this country, but he did make one very valid point. He said that for the most part, the US's two parties are really not that far apart from one another, unlike in other countries where the differences in two or more parties are more stark. I agree with this statement... there's very little differnce when all is said and done between a Democrat and a Republican.

That's why the system is broken and needs to change.
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Let me say this. I do not think the two party system is broken, Yet!!!!

It is just that in a world that is so speculative to opinion and needed change. It's that the two party system is not designed to allow for a quick change, as designed by the founders of this great county.
 
#40
#40
T-TownVol said:
Too much info for ya? Just go back to the Huff Post and ask a mod.
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Alright...I tried, I really did, but you are in fact faaaaaaar to douche for conversation. I'll tell you whats going on at huggington if you let me know how the last Klan meeting went.
 
#41
#41
alwaysorange81 said:
So our government should instantly respond to the under-informed emotional responses by the masses on every issue? Your "extremely flawed political world" is donkeyfedora :)
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So, the will of the people is inconsequential? That's the kind of attitude that is currently causing the Democrats so much problems.
 
#42
#42
Vol_4_Life said:
So, the will of the people is inconsequential? That's the kind of attitude that is currently causing the Democrats so much problems.
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Explain to me then how exactly we should efficiently pass legislation that falls in line perfectly with the current will of the people? And then what about tomorrow when 60% of the people change their minds? All I'm saying is, 600,000,000 opinions cannot effectively pass laws or govern.
 
#43
#43
Rasputin_Vol said:
He said that for the most part, the US's two parties are really not that far apart from one another, unlike in other countries where the differences in two or more parties are more stark. I agree with this statement... there's very little differnce when all is said and done between a Democrat and a Republican.

That's why the system is broken and needs to change.
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that, and each party seems more concerned with hurting the other one / stopping or hindering whatever they are trying to do rather than actually ever getting anything done
 
#44
#44
alwaysorange81 said:
Explain to me then how exactly we should efficiently pass legislation that falls in line perfectly with the current will of the people? And then what about tomorrow when 60% of the people change their minds? All I'm saying is, 600,000,000 opinions cannot effectively pass laws or govern.
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When have the majority of people in this country ever been in favor of socialized healthcare? The Democrats, Obama included, lost much of their credibility when they resorted to back-room, behind-closed-doors bribes in a desperate attempt to get that monstrosity of a bill passed. The politicians, not the people, are the problem.

And, by the way, from where did you get that 600,000,000 figure? That's twice as many people as live in the United States.
 
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#46
#46
TennTradition said:
I think that Obama's point about demonizing the other side is a good one, and accurate. He is also right to point out that both parties engage in it. It leaves you very little room to work with a party that you're already declared as not having the best interests of America/it's people at heart.
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He engages in the same regularly. It's absurd for him to ever chastise anyone for demonizing another group - absolutely absurd.
 
#47
#47
volinbham said:
He engages in the same regularly. It's absurd for him to ever chastise anyone for demonizing another group - absolutely absurd.
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Especially after the decidedly disparaging tone of his State of the Union address. Obama is nothing if not duplicitous.
 
#48
#48
alwaysorange81 said:
And politicians on the left are the MAJORITY in both legislative bodies of the Government, duly elected their by the will of the people. So I ask you again. Should we take a poll for every legislative question in congress? That would be very very complicated. We elect people to achieve the major legislative goals we wish as the people, and let the elected officials deal with the details. They are all currently failing miserably but that isn't the point. Polls do not reflect the will of the people as well as elections do. And that's why we have them. Why don't you run that by your radar?
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Here's the real issue. The Dems have used procedural rules to block virtually any minority participation in crafting legislation. Reconstruct the last two major pieces of legislation - the Stimulus (that passed) and HC (that is stalled). You will see that amendment processes were blocked, committee input was blocked, etc. In short, the Dems said "no thank you" to any minority participation.

You can call that representative democracy if you like but it is utter BS to claim:

1. the minority is the party of "no" - they are the party of "not allowed"

2. the majority is somehow "representing" the country.

Obama is playing right in. HC is stalled because his own party (not subject to the "whims" of the electorate as you suggest) cannot agree on legislation - they don't need the minority and took specific procedural steps to ensure that the minority did not participate.

It is laughable to see Obama pine for bipartisanship and chide the minority for not being bipartisan.
 
#49
#49
volinbham said:
He engages in the same regularly. It's absurd for him to ever chastise anyone for demonizing another group - absolutely absurd.
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The absurdity of chastising is one thing - my point is that the basic point makes sense. It is hard to open yourself up to negotiating with a group that you have recently demonized, especially when you have to go back home and get re-elected. It doesn't mean he is above it, but I hadn't really thought about it until he brought it up.
 
#50
#50
TennTradition said:
The absurdity of chastising is one thing - my point is that the basic point makes sense. It is hard to open yourself up to negotiating with a group that you have recently demonized, especially when you have to go back home and get re-elected. It doesn't mean he is above it, but I hadn't really thought about it until he brought it up.
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I hear ya - all the players have put themselves in this place.

On the optimistic side, I think those back home will back people that are honestly looking for solutions - the current approach makes that impossible from all the players. (see recent statements from Pelosi that bipartisanship is not a goal and Ds will vote against policy they don't agree with - fine but that's exactly what Rs have been doing)

If Obama wants to show leadership, he'll stop blaming and lecturing to groups and propose ideas that people from both parties can buy into.

As it stands now, it's been "my way or the highway" and then a lecture about how you are mischaracterizing "my way". His leadership is horrible.
 
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