FSU's Jimbo Fisher proclaims ACC Best Conference

#26
#26
TUSKtimes said:
No excuse for the entire league to lose at least 4 games. We almost had to bust out the old BCS computers to figure out who was playing in the sugar bowl. That's not an Alabama problem.
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That really only happened last year though. In 2014 and 2015 the conference had 4 double-digit win teams; in 2013 there were 5 (including a team who played for the national title); in 2012 there were 6.

The coaching has been effectively hollowed out over the last several seasons. Urban quit, Franklin left, Richt fired, Miles fired, Spurrier quit. All have been replaced by guys who either aren't as good or the jury is still out on.

I don't think you will see an influx of good coaching into this conference again until Saban hangs it up. The fact Jimbo and Herman didn't go to LSU is case in point.

If A&M and Auburn have bad seasons this year, those schools will both fire coaches and will likely replace them with inferior ones, hollowing it out even more. Tennessee might do the same thing, although I think it would take a truly bad season to fire Butch (Sumlin and Gus, meanwhile, probably get fired with 8 wins).

Saban has truly achieved total domination at this point. The schools that pose the greatest threats to Alabama's supremacy are all located outside the conference at the moment.
 
#27
#27
05_never_again said:
That really only happened last year though. In 2014 and 2015 the conference had 4 double-digit win teams; in 2013 there were 5 (including a team who played for the national title); in 2012 there were 6.

The coaching has been effectively hollowed out over the last several seasons. Urban quit, Franklin left, Richt fired, Miles fired, Spurrier quit. All have been replaced by guys who either aren't as good or the jury is still out on.

I don't think you will see an influx of good coaching into this conference again until Saban hangs it up. The fact Jimbo and Herman didn't go to LSU is case in point.

If A&M and Auburn have bad seasons this year, those schools will both fire coaches and will likely replace them with inferior ones, hollowing it out even more. Tennessee might do the same thing, although I think it would take a truly bad season to fire Butch (Sumlin and Gus, meanwhile, probably get fired with 8 wins).

Saban has truly achieved total domination at this point. The schools that pose the greatest threats to Alabama's supremacy are all located outside the conference at the moment.
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We shall see. I've read too many lazy articles about how Alabama is "killing the sport." That's a hell of a fire alarm to try to describe what a team plans to do about it.
 
#28
#28
TUSKtimes said:
We shall see. I've read too many lazy articles about how Alabama is "killing the sport." That's a hell of a fire alarm to try to describe what a team plans to do about it.
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No, I wouldn't go that far. The sport is probably as popular as it has ever been, and it isn't like Alabama is winning the national title (or even getting to the title game) every single year. Just in a lot of years. :)
 
#29
#29
The way it stands now is that you have 3 or 4 teams that, unless they step on their Johnson, are in the hunt.. with a couple others that are close to that point.

Bama, Ohio State, and Clemson are in the play off talk every year.

Florida State and Michigan are close to that level, they get the talk but can't get past OSU and Clemson. If Penn State keeps trending upwards (and I hate Franklin so it hurts saying this) but they may join that group soon.

And then you always have 1 or 2 teams that surprise and have a great season like Washington last year. Not sure if Peterson can keep that going but I guess we will see.

Other than those teams, who out there has the horses and the coaching to consistently be talked about with those teams?

No one from the SEC.

Like it was said earlier.. quality coaches are becoming rare in the SEC. Petrino gone, Spurrier gone, Meyer ran for OSU, Freeze will soon be, Richt gone, and their replacements have been less than spectacular.

Sumlin caught lightning in a bottle with Manzel, Missouri is back where they belong..

Unless there is some serious money spent at these schools when it's time to replace these coaches I don't see it changing .much.. That's the Saban effect.. I won't say he is bad for college football but I do feel it makes it harder to win in the SEC and coaches know that the championship runs through Tuscaloosa right now. If you want to get to the playoffs in the SEC you gotta come in and beat him. And with the impatience of fans in this league that means you can be on the hit seat and looking for a new job in 3 years or less if you don't produce and compete. Why come here when you can go to another conference and have much lower expectations and pressure from fans?

I don't see anyone out there chomping at the bit to come and coach at any SEC school at the moment. LSU is a perfect example. Does anyone really think Yaw Yaw was their first choice? But they had just fired a National Championship coach and the Richt of the west, and no one else wanted the job because of the pressure and the expectations. Other coaches know what the expectations are.. beat Bama and get to the SEC championship.. and the play offs period.
 
#30
#30
Rumors of the death of the SEC might just be widely exaggerated. Could be 2016 was just a stumble. This coming season shuld help us see what's what.
 
#31
#31
Did anyone honestly see Auburn coming out of left field a few years ago whe they played Fla St for the NC?

I sure didn't.
 
#32
#32
VFL-82-JP said:
Rumors of the death of the SEC might just be widely exaggerated. Could be 2016 was just a stumble. This coming season shuld help us see what's what.
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Lol.. I don't see it as dead.. but it definitely needs some coaching upgrades..
 
#33
#33
VFL-82-JP said:
Rumors of the death of the SEC might just be widely exaggerated. Could be 2016 was just a stumble. This coming season shuld help us see what's what.
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Lol.. I don't see it as dead.. but it definitely needs some coaching upgrades..
 
#36
#36
We'll see.

As someone already noted: one season does not a trend make.

SEC might bounce right back in 2017. We'll see.
 
#39
#39
Lawrence Wright said:
Jimbo isn't wrong.

The question is how long will he be right, and who other than FSU and Clemson can be taken seriously as a national contender.
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There's no reason the U shouldn't be a contender, other than that there isn't another contender in that conference, maybe, Va Tech if they keep their coach, but that's a stretch. Ga Tech, North Carlonia, Pitt and peaked last season.

The biggest problem with the ACC is there are several bottom feeders that keep them from being the best.
 
#40
#40
1chattyvols1 said:
Did anyone honestly see Auburn coming out of left field a few years ago whe they played Fla St for the NC?

I sure didn't.
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They didn't either, they got lucky to beat Miss St, Georgia, and Alabama. They used enough luck that season for a decade.
 
#41
#41
gunner said:
There's no reason the U shouldn't be a contender, other than that there isn't another contender in that conference, maybe, Va Tech if they keep their coach, but that's a stretch. Ga Tech, North Carlonia, Pitt and peaked last season.

The biggest problem with the ACC is there are several bottom feeders that keep them from being the best.
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I agree, more so about the U. They have soooo much to offer those kids down there. If CMR can't win and win big there then Ga was right to let him go!
 
#42
#42
1chattyvols1 said:
I agree, more so about the U. They have soooo much to offer those kids down there. If CMR can't win and win big there then Ga was right to let him go!
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I disagree to an extent. Obviously, Coral Gables and that whole stigma of South Beach is a draw, it is a great private University if you want to look at academics, but they have a lousy fan base, stadium that's way off campus and poor facilities. They don't offer that much.
 
#43
#43
RDU VOL#14 said:
I disagree to an extent. Obviously, Coral Gables and that whole stigma of South Beach is a draw, it is a great private University if you want to look at academics, but they have a lousy fan base, stadium that's way off campus and poor facilities. They don't offer that much.
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They are still light years ahead of Fla atl, UCF, So Fla and all those other schools. Plus their tradition beginning with Schnellingberger through Larry Coker and all those NC's.
 
#45
#45
knucklehead_vol said:
So take Bama out and a handful of conferences are better than the SEC.
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In 2016, you didn't even have to take out Bama. Three conferences were better even including the Tide's OOC wins and losses.

Here's hoping the SEC is king again in 2017, top to bottom.
 
#47
#47
VFL-82-JP said:
Rumors of the death of the SEC might just be widely exaggerated. Could be 2016 was just a stumble. This coming season shuld help us see what's what.
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Not sure anybody has declared the death of the SEC, even the biggest SEC haters. The other conferences still have a long way to go in terms of getting the reputation of their conferences to the SEC's level. Reputations aren't built overnight. For the ACC or Big 10 to really elevate their standing, they'll need multiple teams in their conference win multiple national titles over the next 5-8 years or so. The ACC is closest to doing that (2 different ACC teams have won 2 out of the last 4), but they need to have someone else join the party (remember, the SEC had 4 different teams win titles from 2006 - 2012).

When your conference wins 7 national titles in a row, 8 out of 11 since 2006, has good records against the other conferences in OOC games and bowls going back many years, 5 out of the last 10 Heisman winners, has had your conference's championship game serve as a de facto national title play-in game on multiple occasions, the preeminent "brand" currently in the sport (Alabama), etc., you don't lose your position as "the best" conference due to a season or two where you are a little bit off.

One thing that the SEC haters have said for years that wasn't true, but became true in 2015 and especially 2016, is that the SEC wasn't particularly deep. In 2015, it was absolutely true that the SEC had the best team but probably wasn't the best conference. The SEC didn't have either of those things in 2016. As we've discussed earlier in the thread the SEC absolutely does not have the best coaching, top to bottom.
 
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#48
#48
knucklehead_vol said:
So take Bama out and a handful of conferences are better than the SEC.
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So take out the best team in the ACC and what you got? The truth is you take out Clemson and it doesn't take long to get to mediocrity and a whole lot of parity. Try it, I dare you?



Louisville 9-4
Florida State 10-3
NC State 7-6
Wake Forest 7-6
Boston C 7-6
Syracuse 2-6

Virginia Tech 10-4
Miami 9-4
North Carolina 8-5
Pittsburgh 8-5
Georgia Tech 9-4
Duke 1-7 4-8
Virginia 2-10

Hell, you even beat VaTech.
 
#49
#49
05_never_again said:
Not sure anybody has declared the death of the SEC, even the biggest SEC haters. The other conferences still have a long way to go in terms of getting the reputation of their conferences to the SEC's level. Reputations aren't built overnight. For the ACC or Big 10 to really elevate their standing, they'll need multiple teams in their conference win multiple national titles over the next 5-8 years or so. The ACC is closest to doing that (2 different ACC teams have won 2 out of the last 4), but they need to have someone else join the party (remember, the SEC had 4 different teams win titles from 2006 - 2012).

When your conference wins 7 national titles in a row, 8 out of 11 since 2006, has good records against the other conferences in OOC games and bowls going back many years, 5 out of the last 10 Heisman winners, has had your conference's championship game serve as a de facto national title play-in game on multiple occasions, the preeminent "brand" currently in the sport (Alabama), etc., you don't lose your position as "the best" conference due to a season or two where you are a little bit off.

One thing that the SEC haters have said for years that wasn't true, but became true in 2015 and especially 2016, is that the SEC wasn't particularly deep. In 2015, it was absolutely true that the SEC had the best team but probably wasn't the best conference. The SEC didn't have either of those things in 2016. As we've discussed earlier in the thread the SEC absolutely does not have the best coaching, top to bottom.
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Agree with all but your last point, 05.

In my experience, coaches are as good or bad as their records. From 2015 all the way back as far as the eye could see, the SEC's records were collectively better than everyone else's, because the SEC won most of their games against all those other conference teams. And in all those years, folks generally thought well of the SEC's coaches as a group.

Until 2016, folks weren't saying it was "Saban and the 13 dwarfs." Most folks still thought highly of Butch (his trend at that point was 5, then 7, then 9 wins in 3 seasons). Most folks were still expecting great things from McElwain, eventually. Smart was an unknown commodity. Freeze wasn't yet in NCAA dog dodo. Folks were starting to suspect Sumlin was nothing without Manziel, but they hadn't yet given up on him. Mullen was well-regarded, as were Mason and Stoops (for being at second-rate programs, that is).

Then 2016 happened.

Now it's Saban and the 13 dwarfs.

But if the SEC turns it back around in 2017, wins a lot more than they lose, and wins some impressive games against good opponents, all that talk will flip around again.

Doesn't pay to be too short-sighted in college football.

We'll see how it turns out.
 
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#50
#50
VFL-82-JP said:
Agree with all but your last point, 05.

In my experience, coaches are as good or bad as their records. From 2015 all the way back as far as the eye could see, the SEC's records were collectively better than everyone else's, because the SEC won most of their games against all those other conference teams. And in all those years, folks generally thought well of the SEC's coaches as a group.

Until 2016, folks weren't saying it was "Saban and the 13 dwarfs." Most folks still thought highly of Butch (his trend at that point was 5, then 7, then 9 wins in 3 seasons). Most folks were still expecting great things from McElwain, eventually. Smart was an unknown commodity. Freeze wasn't yet in NCAA dog dodo. Folks were starting to suspect Sumlin was nothing without Manziel, but they hadn't yet given up on him. Mullen was well-regarded, as were Mason and Stoops (for being at second-rate programs, that is).

Then 2016 happened.

Now it's Saban and the 13 dwarfs.

But if the SEC turns it back around in 2017, wins a lot more than they lose, and wins some impressive games against good opponents, all that talk will flip around again.

Doesn't pay to be too short-sighted in college football.

We'll see how it turns out.
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I agree that 2016 has an out-sized weighting in making people think the SEC is "Saban and the 13 dwarfs," but I don't think it is altogether unfair. That perception had been growing for a while and showed itself last year.

The thing the ACC and Big 10 have at the moment is a school that is seen as a worthy adversary to the top dog. I'm actually not sure the ACC has a top dog; more like 1A and 1B with Clemson and FSU. Then you have Louisville behind them.

Ohio St is the top dog in the Big 10, but Michigan and Penn St are seen as worthy adversaries to them. In fact one of the adversaries is the reigning conference champ, not the top dog. Wisconsin is a consistently good, scrappy program. Michigan State was good and seen as a worthy adversary until last year.

Alabama, for the past couple of years, hasn't had a worthy in-conference adversary. The Ole Miss defeats, right or wrongly, are seen as flukes given the games they went on to lose those years and given the fact that Alabama went on to win SEC Championships in '15 and '16 and a national title in '15 anyway.

Bama is the top dog, but is there really anybody in the conference to challenge them in Atlanta? Florida was that team for a period (took a conference title from them), LSU was that team for a period (took a division title from them), Auburn was that team for a period (same), and Georgia was that team in 2012 (almost took a conference title from them). Who is it now? The conference, for its own good, needs to come up with an answer this year.
 
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