Game Thread: (16/19) Lady Vols at (6/5) Texas A&M

[Raebo]

just interested because it always seems like players mention how horrible the Lady Vol fanbase can be is all the other SEC teams all about rainbows and sunshine after bad performances..why does the TN fanbase get all the bad rep

I think because of our past success we have high expectations. Also we have one of the most active/best forums out there so you will see a lot more comments. Plus we usually have a lot of fans at games compared to other schools.

 

[SGMVols]

About 30 percent of the fanbase acted really ugly when the girls legally demonstrated their fifth amendment rights. That could be part of it at least in the present.

I don’t think anyone has a problem with them having the right to avoid self-incrimination.

 

[Volfan2012]

I don’t think anyone has a problem with them having the right to avoid self-incrimination.

I don't think they care what you think and I certainly don't.

 

[creekdipper]

just interested because it always seems like players mention how horrible the Lady Vol fanbase can be is all the other SEC teams all about rainbows and sunshine after bad performances..why does the TN fanbase get all the bad rep

As Raebo said, not that many schools have as active a fan base as ours. Looking at historic attendance numbers will verify that.

If comments are beyond the pale, Freak and his team take care of them. Someone made an unbelievably-ugly comment about one of our players (not JH) a few weeks back (the kind of remarks that sparks rumors) in the middle of the night. I reported it and assume others may have done so, too. By morning, the post had been removed.

Questioning the shot selection of a player (there's a double meaning to the term "floaters," especially when they don't even draw iron) is not "tearing down" players. Neither is questioning their attitude when they casually flip an underhanded pass immediately after committing two unforced turnovers. If a player is in a slump, they can at least visibly demonstrate that they're trying to correct the error rather thsn repeating it.

I suppose the advised approach for fans is to operate under the "If you can't say something good, don't say anything at all" regarding players. That can be hard when we come so close to beating top teams and pulling out those close games the way Texas A&M has done this year, but I suppose we have to either be "sunshine pumpers" or just bite into a gag and say nothing critical for fear of damaging delicate psyches, even when making fact-based, non-personal observations.

Is it really so bad to suggest that players go to what's working well for them rather than what isn't? Or that they might stick to sound fundamentals instead of risky, flashy moves? Or that they buck up and get tougher whem they commit errors rather retreating into a shell?

This year we have Rennia. Presumably, next year we won't. If we're going to make the most of our opportunities this year, there's going to need to be improvement fast. And each player is going to have to concentrate on helping her team by giving het best efforts on every play. That includes making good decisions...in common parlance, "playing smart" and "being unselfish."

There's a big chasm between unfairly harping on players and coddling them. There should be a happy medium. The players (and parents) should take note of what Conn's players say about their coach: "If he's not criticizing you, that means he's given up on you" (paraphrasing). That's true of fans, too. The "star" players always draw more attention. It goes with the territory.

 

[Volfan2012]

As Raebo said, not that many schools have as active a fan base as ours. Looking at historic attendance numbers will verify that.

If comments are beyond the pale, Freak and his team take care of them. Someone made an unbelievably-ugly comment about one of our players (not JH) a few weeks back (the kind of remarks that sparks rumors) in the middle of the night. I reported it and assume others may have done so, too. By morning, the post had been removed.

Questioning the shot selection of a player (there's a double meaning to the term "floaters," especially when they don't even draw iron) is not "tearing down" players. Neither is questioning their attitude when they casually flip an underhanded pass immediately after committing two unforced turnovers. If a player is in a slump, they can at least visibly demonstrate that they're trying to correct the error rather thsn repeating it.

I suppose the advised approach for fans is to operate under the "If you can't say something good, don't say anything at all" regarding players. That can be hard when we come so close to beating top teams and pulling out those close games the way Texas A&M has done this year, but I suppose we have to either be "sunshine pumpers" or just bite into a gag and say nothing critical for fear of damaging delicate psyches, even when making fact-based, non-personal observations.

Is it really so bad to suggest that players go to what's working well for them rather than what isn't? Or that they might stick to sound fundamentals instead of risky, flashy moves? Or that they buck up and get tougher whem they commit errors rather retreating into a shell?

This year we have Rennia. Presumably, next year we won't. If we're going to make the most of our opportunities this year, there's going to need to be improvement fast. And each player is going to have to concentrate on helping her team by giving het best efforts on every play. That includes making good decisions...in common parlance, "playing smart" and "being unselfish."

There's a big chasm between unfairly harping on players and coddling them. There should be a happy medium. The players (and parents) should take note of what Conn's players say about their coach: "If he's not criticizing you, that means he's given up on you" (paraphrasing). That's true of fans, too. The "star" players always draw more attention. It goes with the territory.

In the end any parent or player taking anything seriously said by a fan on a board or at a game really is out of touch. Your never going to get 100 percent support. If you get 70 percent your are doing well. I say if your not comfortable where you are then find another place always going to be a percentage of fans that don't like anything, another percentage that likes only some things, and then the ones you can deal with that like everything even the bad. I get as upset with the team as anyone here. I want the team to win. I like to win. We have a ways to go Coach is doing a very good job getting us back. I like the direction were going in. We need players and a bench to fill certain positions this is the next critical step hopefully we'll be able to succeed.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Jordan Horston Mother has said she wants Jordan to transfer because she is sick of the fans. It seems like Jordan is making the descion to stay at TN even if her mother thinks differently.

and honestly does her mother think that other fanbases dont tear down the players after bad games????

Where did she say this?

Maybe she and Westbrook's mom can start their own helicopter parenting club...

 

[Volfan2012]

I guess we'll find out about the Tuesday game soon. One airport closed until Noon tomorrow. The other will make a decision on opening at 1 PM today so probably doing that now. I guess if they reopen team could fly into Starkville today and play tomorrow. If they decide to keep airport closed until tomorrow think that will mean cancellation.

 

[LadyVols_WBK]

Where did she say this?

Maybe she and Westbrook's mom can start their own helicopter parenting club...

I have *screenshots* that im not gonna post

 

[Darth_Vol]

I have *screenshots* that im not gonna post

Screenshots from a private conversation, or was this in a public forum?

 

[LadyVols_WBK]

Screenshots from a private conversation, or was this in a public forum?

private

 

[Voltopia]

Meh. I have said it a thousand times before but the opposite of investment is apathy. While fans of Tennessee and the Lady Vols are a lot of things, they are not apathetic. It's a tribute to Pat for creating something that earned respect and delivered on expectations for so long. I mean, hell, you go anywhere - here, VQ, VTTW, even OM or any other Tennessee board you can think of - folks still pay attention to the team and the program. Positively or negatively, they still watch. For a program that hasn't recently competed at the highest level to have that much attention is something remarkable. I mean, really remarkable. This is not a sport where above-average results get you much attention. Average attendance for most teams is what ... 1000 people a game? Not at Tennessee. People treat it like a regular sport here. Have you read how people talk on the men's basketball board when they lose a game? It's like human sacrifice over there. But that's sports at the highest level. Is that rough? I guess. Is it demanding? Sure. But it is also investment, and people are invested. I have to think that's far preferable to the alternative.

 

[Lucy]

As Raebo said, not that many schools have as active a fan base as ours. Looking at historic attendance numbers will verify that.

If comments are beyond the pale, Freak and his team take care of them. Someone made an unbelievably-ugly comment about one of our players (not JH) a few weeks back (the kind of remarks that sparks rumors) in the middle of the night. I reported it and assume others may have done so, too. By morning, the post had been removed.

Questioning the shot selection of a player (there's a double meaning to the term "floaters," especially when they don't even draw iron) is not "tearing down" players. Neither is questioning their attitude when they casually flip an underhanded pass immediately after committing two unforced turnovers. If a player is in a slump, they can at least visibly demonstrate that they're trying to correct the error rather thsn repeating it.

I suppose the advised approach for fans is to operate under the "If you can't say something good, don't say anything at all" regarding players. That can be hard when we come so close to beating top teams and pulling out those close games the way Texas A&M has done this year, but I suppose we have to either be "sunshine pumpers" or just bite into a gag and say nothing critical for fear of damaging delicate psyches, even when making fact-based, non-personal observations.

Is it really so bad to suggest that players go to what's working well for them rather than what isn't? Or that they might stick to sound fundamentals instead of risky, flashy moves? Or that they buck up and get tougher whem they commit errors rather retreating into a shell?

This year we have Rennia. Presumably, next year we won't. If we're going to make the most of our opportunities this year, there's going to need to be improvement fast. And each player is going to have to concentrate on helping her team by giving het best efforts on every play. That includes making good decisions...in common parlance, "playing smart" and "being unselfish."

There's a big chasm between unfairly harping on players and coddling them. There should be a happy medium. The players (and parents) should take note of what Conn's players say about their coach: "If he's not criticizing you, that means he's given up on you" (paraphrasing). That's true of fans, too. The "star" players always draw more attention. It goes with the territory.

So I guess a further question is the purpose of these boards. Is it to allow fans to exchange information, discuss outcomes of games, coaching decisions etc. or is it just a place for adults to throw out ridiculous personal insults at young women because a game was lost and it was evidently a matter of life and death for said supposed adult.
Unfortunately we have a lot of posters who are merely seagull fans. They fly in, poop on everything and then fly off, not to be heard from again until the next loss. Your above discussion sounds very rational but does not match up with the reality of most posts. A large group of posters like to pick one player and just hammer them. Last year it was Westbrook, this year Horston. The loss of Westbrook really hurt us this year even though most LV fans would never admit it. I don’t think Horston would leave over the stupid comments made here. I hope and believe she is supported by her coaches and teammates but jeez we have people on here who would eat their own young.
The fans who criticize effort or attitude are the ones that just make my blood boil. They don’t know jack crap about a kids’s attitude. Are they there at practice to see how hard the kid works every day? Are they there in the weight room, are they there in the off season monitoring early morning runs? No they are not. Yet they are more than willing to question a kids attitude when they show disappointment for 2 seconds after a missed shot.
Finally, regarding Geno getting on his players. I’m sure Kellie does as well but they have relationships with their players. They actually know where the player needs to improve. The player in turn knows the coach cares for them and has their best interests at heart. So it is not equivalent to the player tear down sessions which regularly appear here.
Putting soap box away now.

 

[37620VOL]

Disclaimer: I have not read all 27 pages of this, but we lost for 2 reasons. We lost at the FT line (volume) and we lost at the 3pt line (%). Other than that, it was not a bad effort against a really good team.

 

[creekdipper]

Your points are well-taken, but I would take slight issue with the thought that fans can't judge in-game effort as well as coaches. We don't have all the injury info. or know if there are persnal issues (family, etc.) that might help explain questionable effort, but we can all see when players stand around on offense and defense, jog back after turnovers, don't box out, don't pay attention to shot clock, make carelss passes, won't set screens, allow players to blow past them, don't chase loose balls, don't help teammates on defense, etc. That is not an accusation or description directed toward any specific player...it's just saying that we all know what actions we would use to describe great effort, so the converse should be easy to identify by the lack of those actions.

Employers (and parents) know how to identify lack of effort. The standards used are always actions taken or not taken. And guess what? Nearly everyone agrees upon those standards. So do coaches and fans (and teammates).

My point about the criticism being an indication of interest is that if some players weren't being mentioned due to disappointment of fans, those players might likely then complain that they aren't appreciated and that no one cares.

 

[Lucy]

Your points are well-taken, but I would take slight issue with the thought that fans can't judge in-game effort as well as coaches. We don't have all the injury info. or know if there are persnal issues (family, etc.) that might help explain questionable effort, but we can all see when players stand around on offense and defense, jog back after turnovers, don't box out, don't pay attention to shot clock, make carelss passes, won't set screens, allow players to blow past them, don't chase loose balls, don't help teammates on defense, etc. That is not an accusation or description directed toward any specific player...it's just saying that we all know what actions we would use to describe great effort, so the converse should be easy to identify by the lack of those actions.

Employers (and parents) know how to identify lack of effort. The standards used are always actions taken or not taken. And guess what? Nearly everyone agrees upon those standards. So do coaches and fans (and teammates).

My point about the criticism being an indication of interest is that if some players weren't being mentioned due to disappointment of fans, those players might likely then complain that they aren't appreciated and that no one cares.

I agree there are specific actions that might indicate frustration or lack of concentration also maybe lack of experience or discipline or focus. But are they really rant worthy by adults protected by internet anonymity? I truly doubt some of these posters have ever held themselves or their children to such exacting standards. All of our kids have shown huge amounts of perseverance, tenacity and work ethic just to become a Lady Vol. Why not support them while remembering they are human and young humans at that.
Will try and lighten up now. Mother bears you know.

 

[Bballnut1952]

"a place for adults to throw out ridiculous personal insults at young women"

While there have been a lot of criticism, I haven't seen anything like this on this board.

 

[PG1]

Let’s remember that everyone of these players and their parents gladly accepted all the accolades that came with being recruited by several D1 schools. The “I have narrows my list to 10” all the social media hype and signings in front of their school. College coaches begging time after time and fighting over them. Parents loved this part of being a D1 player. But the 1st sign of a fan base showing these players they need to live up to their hype the mamas get huffy and players threaten to transfer. All comes with the territory.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

"a place for adults to throw out ridiculous personal insults at young women"

While there have been a lot of criticism, I haven't seen anything like this on this board.

Weight has been disused on this board before and at the beginning of the discussion some pretty harsh comments were made...


I am pretty sure there were some personal insults during that ... some even were deleted because of the way it trashed the player (the player was Marta if you couldn’t remember)...

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

Let’s remember that everyone of these players and their parents gladly accepted all the accolades that came with being recruited by several D1 schools. The “I have narrows my list to 10” all the social media hype and signings in front of their school. College coaches begging time after time and fighting over them. Parents loved this part of being a D1 player. But the 1st sign of a fan base showing these players they need to live up to their hype the mamas get huffy and players threaten to transfer. All comes with the territory.

We all get criticizing but some people are down right rude and trash players... their weight, their beliefs, etc

I think that feeds into some of the stuff that bothers parents too.

 

[PG1]

We all get criticizing but some people are down right rude and trash players... their weight, their beliefs, etc

I think that feeds into some of the stuff that bothers parents too.

True but for the most part the mamas just don’t like to hear that their little darlings don’t dominate college players like they did HS players

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

True but for the most part the mamas just don’t like to hear that their little darlings don’t dominate college players like they did HS players

Well i can tell you one momma of a LV isn’t feeling fans or digging in her daughter for other than her play and she hasn’t been quiet about it lol

I remember watching Elena Delle Donne play in the wnba finals and she had a “sprained back” she ended up having 3 dislocated disks in her back. i wonder for Horston if it’s worse than she is letting on but wants to play.

Also, Elena played heavy minutes in the post taking a beating so it wasn’t she couldn’t play she just couldn’t play like normal.

No i’m not comparing her to college players sometimes we just don’t know what’s really going on

 

[Lucy]

"a place for adults to throw out ridiculous personal insults at young women"

While there have been a lot of criticism, I haven't seen anything like this on this board.

There really have been BBN. Maybe some have been removed but one recently involved calling a freshman a bust. 50% of the way through your first year and someone calls you a bust. If I went back I could give you more examples but I honestly hate to dredge them back up.

 

[creekdipper]

You're right, Lucy. There have been a few despicable ones that likely weren't seen by many due to their being removed quickly. They probably would have been played off as "jokes," but some things aren't joking matters, particularly ones for which there's no equivalent derogatory remark for males and which have historically been used to slur women's reputations.

Knowing that the individuals making such comnents were among the drive-bys who only appeared after a non-basketball news event doesn't make it any better for their targets.

 

[Amb3096]

So I guess a further question is the purpose of these boards. Is it to allow fans to exchange information, discuss outcomes of games, coaching decisions etc. or is it just a place for adults to throw out ridiculous personal insults at young women because a game was lost and it was evidently a matter of life and death for said supposed adult.
Unfortunately we have a lot of posters who are merely seagull fans. They fly in, poop on everything and then fly off, not to be heard from again until the next loss. Your above discussion sounds very rational but does not match up with the reality of most posts. A large group of posters like to pick one player and just hammer them. Last year it was Westbrook, this year Horston. The loss of Westbrook really hurt us this year even though most LV fans would never admit it. I don’t think Horston would leave over the stupid comments made here. I hope and believe she is supported by her coaches and teammates but jeez we have people on here who would eat their own young.
The fans who criticize effort or attitude are the ones that just make my blood boil. They don’t know jack crap about a kids’s attitude. Are they there at practice to see how hard the kid works every day? Are they there in the weight room, are they there in the off season monitoring early morning runs? No they are not. Yet they are more than willing to question a kids attitude when they show disappointment for 2 seconds after a missed shot.
Finally, regarding Geno getting on his players. I’m sure Kellie does as well but they have relationships with their players. They actually know where the player needs to improve. The player in turn knows the coach cares for them and has their best interests at heart. So it is not equivalent to the player tear down sessions which regularly appear here.
Putting soap box away now.

My two cents is that The Summitt is the fansite where you only say nice things about everyone and Volnation is more of a typical sports board where people are here to talk about the games and dissect the performances piece-by-piece. Sometimes that includes some critiques of player performances, but it comes with the territory and if saying that "so and so sucked today" is enough to destroy a fragile psyche, they might want to rethink putting themselves in the spotlight. The saving grace is that the WNBA doesn't have a strong fanbase, because if it was the NBA...what they experience in college would be the tip of the iceberg. Luka Doncic has had two 40 pt games in a row, and he still gets ripped on social media for being fat.

I don't think the vast majority of threads here are unreasonable, and the moderators do a good job of shutting down things that are. For some people, maybe The Summitt is more of what they are looking for.

 

[Nute Gunray]

We know who the starters were and who came off the bench. They dominated our bench not our starters. Of the starters two were draws, two were wins, and one was a huge loss. Bring in the bench they won all three matchups by a lot.

Lady Vols bench - 33 mins and 7 points
TA&M bench - 39 mins and 22 points