Game Thread: #22/22 LADY VOLS AT #1/2 SOUTH CAROLINA

[Volfan2012]

Was I wrong did we not hold them below their averages ?

We definitely did but we didn't get enough shots at the basket to take advantage of it. How many points would we score if we got 17 more shots it certainly makes the game more interesting. The defense has never been the problem this year except were playing to much of it.

 

[Volfan2012]

Great post, agree with all. My big frustration with Harper is also the substitution pattern. She seems determined to "play through" her sub plan and seems far more confident KK can improve and contribute than I am. I thought our best chance to be competitive was torpedoed by KJH when she subbed in the 3rd quarter, taking out Key and Massengill. Also thought Horston has WAY too many mins, especially at point. How in the world does Horston get more mins handling the ball than Massengill?

Horston had two turnovers in the first 30 seconds, our first two possesions, and IMO the tone was pretty much set. We are so much better mentally than previous seasons, but still very, very fragile. Especially against ranked opponents, we need to start sharp and focused. IMO Horston should have been pulled after the second t.o. and given the opportunity to watch the flow of the game develop.

No way in the world Horston, who does have 111 assists but also a whooping 97 t.o.s on the season, plays more or handles the ball a fraction as much as Jaz, who in slightly more mins overall has 93 assists and only 34 t.o.s. What is hard about making this call? I do wish Jaz would take a little more initiative offensively, especially when all around her are misfiring.

Not sure what the answer is for Horston, but she is not improving in ball handling at all, and that is very concerning this deep into the season.
Our post took attempted only 2 shots today! What good is all the height if they are MIA on offense?

I am beginning to think the coaching staff has no answer for the turnovers. They have done a tremendous job with the defensive play, but they do not seem to have a clue how to stop unforced turnovers.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

We definitely did but we didn't get enough shots at the basket to take advantage of it. How many points would we score if we got 17 more shots it certainly makes the game more interesting. The defense has never been the problem this year except were playing to much of it.

Depends do we go 0-17 or 17-17 and are there some 3 pointers in there

 

[DEEFEEZEE]

These guards have no clue how to pass to the post and that's where most of the teams turnovers come from.

 

[sccshortstop]

I am beginning to think the coaching staff has no answer for the turnovers. They have done a tremendous job with the defensive play, but they do not seem to have a clue how to stop unforced turnovers.

I as many think the sub pattern is atrocious . If KK gets a inch off the ground I expect a nosebleed immediately since she never has done. MR was the same way when she walked in and walked out and I think regardless of the coach KK will as well. TK is weak with the ball and makes as many dumb mistakes as KK. I did not watch it all because I was sick of it, Horston is a TO machine from the git go. At least McCoy is tough and will give them hello when she is in as well. I would suspect as many as 20 TO but that is a guess. Kelly is nearly as bad as our last coach to keep timeouts in her pocket even to stop a run. I have not read any other post but I will hang up and read now!!!

 

[Volfan2012]

Depends do we go 0-17 or 17-17 and are there some 3 pointers in there

True but if you play games with that type of shot differential your definitely going to lose to the better teams. We've had a minus 9 shot differential to Bama but we out shot them enough from the field along with Davis great shot to win. I think it was minus 11 against LSU but again we out shot them by about 15 percent and it was minus 9 to Vandy but we out shot them by close to 20 points. If we can't even up the attempts against these better teams probably all gonna be losses. If the shots are even and the free throws are even you can shoot 34 percent and win if you hold them to 33. This teams excels on defense because we play more than half the game defending because of turnovers.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

True but if you play games with that type of shot differential your definitely going to lose to the better teams. We've had a minus 9 shot differential to Bama but we out shot them enough from the field along with Davis great shot to win. I think it was minus 11 against LSU but again we out shot them by about 15 percent and it was minus 9 to Vandy but we out shot them by close to 20 points. If we can't even up the attempts against these better teams probably all gonna be losses. If the shots are even and the free throws are even you can shoot 34 percent and win if you hold them to 33. This teams excels on defense because we play more than half the game defending because of turnovers.

Couldn’t this team stink on defense and still be turning over the ball that much? I think this team excels on defense because they are buying in. I think they are provided more opportunities to prove they are good on defense because of the turnovers.

Remember last year we had plenty of opportunities to be good on defense with turnovers and that wasn’t the case. I’m just saying

 

[VolBall09]

I am beginning to think the coaching staff has no answer for the turnovers. They have done a tremendous job with the defensive play, but they do not seem to have a clue how to stop unforced turnovers.

I really feel like Jazz needs to control the ball more. Particularly early in the game. The first quarter is when Horston always seems most rattled. Should be a concerted effort to get Jazz the ball to run something organized. Heck, run a play for Jordan and get her an easy bucket. Have to slow things down for her somehow to start the game.

 

[glv98]

I am beginning to think the coaching staff has no answer for the turnovers. They have done a tremendous job with the defensive play, but they do not seem to have a clue how to stop unforced turnovers.

Most of our t.o.s by far are caused by bad decision-making and players like Horston and Burrell who try too hard to create offense and end up forcing stuff and then having poor options to get rid of the ball. If you counted bad shots caused by same, both Horston and Burrell would have 15 or 20 t.o.s a game.

Unfortunately, decision-making is the hardest thing to coach, especially with young players adjusting to the speed of the college game. And it takes time.

One thing I believe would help is more movement in the offense. Better than the last few years, but still times of way too much standing around, not offering options.

Mizzu is beating Arky at half.

 

[Volfan2012]

Couldn’t this team stink on defense and still be turning over the ball that much? I think this team excels on defense because they are buying in. I think they are provided more opportunities to prove they are good on defense because of the turnovers.

Remember last year we had plenty of opportunities to be good on defense with turnovers and that wasn’t the case. I’m just saying

If they did then we'd be getting beat by 35 or more. I bet if someone clocked our time on defense in some games we are defending 25 to 28 minutes of the game. 17 additional shots is 17 opportunities to score and you have to defend everyone of those shots while you opponent only had to defend 52. The problem with this team is not defense it is all offense were letting the opponent have far more possessions than we get in every game we play. If we only had to defend 52 shots today like they did they score around 55 points or less.

 

[Volfan2012]

I really feel like Jazz needs to control the ball more. Particularly early in the game. The first quarter is when Horston always seems most rattled. Should be a concerted effort to get Jazz the ball to run something organized. Heck, run a play for Jordan and get her an easy bucket. Have to slow things down for her somehow to start the game.

Like 35 minutes a game or every minute she is in there. Horston has to play you can't get better not playing but I would take her out of the decision making role and let her try to be more of a scorer by getting to the basket or shooting the jumper in the paint.

 

[Volfan2012]

Most of our t.o.s by far are caused by bad decision-making and players like Horston and Burrell who try too hard to create offense and end up forcing stuff and then having poor options to get rid of the ball. If you counted bad shots caused by same, both Horston and Burrell would have 15 or 20 t.o.s a game.

Unfortunately, decision-making is the hardest thing to coach, especially with young players adjusting to the speed of the college game. And it takes time.

One thing I believe would help is more movement in the offense. Better than the last few years, but still times of way too much standing around, not offering options.

Mizzu is beating Arky at half.

Please let them win a bad day becomes a great day.

 

[Volfan2012]

Somebody needs to keep the time on how much defense we play versus offense in a game. I bet there isn't a game in the last five where we didn't play at least 25 minutes of defense and in some games probably close to 30.

 

[djtee]

Key leads the league in blocks. Horston has turnover issues but also is a SEC leader in assists.

How Burrell is a different player than last year. Rennia is much more assertive.

I will say this the freshman at SC are good and I mean really really good but even in their roles they have other players to lead them with Dawns coaching. Our freshman have largresponsibilities and roles and I honestly think with the talent they have it is still a lot and it’s overwhelming. Zaay would take pressure off of Horston and coach would be able to sit her more. We lose ground when going to the bench in the post but I think McCoy will help sooner rather than later.

All in all SC is a much better team than we are right now but to say Harper can’t develop talent I dunno too early to tell especially since both Horston and Key will probably make the all freshman team and Key the all defensive team.

KJH needs to let Key play thur her mistakes do she get`s knocked off the blocks at times yes. Let her take the punishment down low that is the only way she will learn. She never backed down today against Boston. Boston did not score when Key was in the game. SC is a very talented team with very athletic players SC made the call to a attack Key in the post and it was sent back every time. I`m not sure why we even double down all the time and leave the three wide open.

 

[Orange_Mamba]

These guards have no clue how to pass to the post and that's where most of the teams turnovers come from.

Welcome to the last 7 years of Lady Vol basketball

 

[glv98]

I really feel like Jazz needs to control the ball more. Particularly early in the game. The first quarter is when Horston always seems most rattled. Should be a concerted effort to get Jazz the ball to run something organized. Heck, run a play for Jordan and get her an easy bucket. Have to slow things down for her somehow to start the game.

Like 35 minutes a game or every minute she is in there. Horston has to play you can't get better not playing but I would take her out of the decision making role and let her try to be more of a scorer by getting to the basket or shooting the jumper in the paint.

This is so obvious I'm not sure why its even a question. Yet Jordan logged 33 mins today to Jaz's 31. Horston has 3x as many t.o.s on the season as Jaz, including two on our first two possessions today. She's becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy, the yips are setting in. She MUST handle the ball less. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to bring her off the bench.

 

[Prophet1]

Great post, agree with all. My big frustration with Harper is also the substitution pattern. She seems determined to "play through" her sub plan and seems far more confident KK can improve and contribute than I am.

I thought our best chance to be competitive today was torpedoed by KJH when she subbed in the 3rd quarter, taking out Key and Massengill. Also thought Horston got WAY too many mins, especially at point. How in the world does Horston get more mins handling the ball than Massengill?

Horston had two turnovers in the first 30 seconds, our first two possessions, and IMO the tone was pretty much set. We are so much better mentally than previous seasons, but still very, very fragile. Especially against ranked opponents, we need to start sharp and focused. IMO Horston should have been pulled after the second t.o. and given the opportunity to watch the flow of the game develop.

No way in the world Horston, who does have 111 assists but also a whooping 97 t.o.s on the season, plays more or handles the ball a fraction as much as Jaz, who in slightly more mins overall has 93 assists and only 34 t.o.s. What is hard about making this call? I do wish Jaz would take a little more initiative offensively, especially when all around her are misfiring.

Not sure what the answer is for Horston, but she is not improving in ball handling at all, and that is very concerning this deep into the season. I know Rae continues to be a fog of inconsistency, but maybe time to look at starting her instead of Jordan. Something has to give with JH.

While I'm generally very well pleased with Davis this year, she makes way too many unforced t.o.s as well. Weakest part of her game.

Our posts attempted only 2 shots today! What good is all the height if they are MIA on offense?

I agree and have stated the same. Maybe ...just maybe ..
Coach is looking one or two years ahead of us, after
all we want to win every darn game this particular day.
Or maybe she looking to tournament time.....maybe.
But in her post game with Mickey she didn't seem too
worried bout the TOs or bothered bout Jordan's bad habit of assisting the opposing team. She probably doesn't have an answer either.
Plus I wonder why she doesn't use Emily and Jessie, it can't hurt much.
What is the damn remedy for this turnover business?

 

[glv98]

Maybe ...just maybe ..
Coach is looking one or two years ahead of us,

Or maybe she looking to tournament time

Yes, I've thought about that possibility. But its getting really late in the season and certain players are not benefitting from being allowed to "play through". I fear bad habits are taking root in some, and lack of basic ability is defining others. KJH gotta fix the first, but not much she can do about the second except recruit.

Mizzu holding on late in 3rd. Virtually no one is at that game, except the teams, managers and cheerleaders. Embarrassing amount of empty seats. Must be a local team in the Super Bowl or something.

 

[Prophet1]

These guards have no clue how to pass to the post and that's where most of the teams turnovers come from.

Pass it to who?

 

[Prophet1]

Yes, I've thought about that possibility. But its getting really late in the season and certain players are not benefitting from being allowed to "play through". I fear bad habits are taking root in some, and lack of basic ability is defining others. KJH gotta fix the first, but not much she can do about the second except recruit.

Mizzu holding on late in 3rd. Virtually no one is at that game, except the teams, managers and cheerleaders. Embarrassing amount of empty seats. Must be a local team in the Super Bowl or something.

Early in the season, Jordan was hitting Key successfully
in the box. Remember that ? Seemed to be her favorite
target back then. Less turnover back then also.
Wonder what happened to the freshmen to freshmen connection?

 

[FrozenLVFan]

TO's
Tenn...21
SC..........6

Pts off TO's
Tenn....6
SC........28

Pts in the paint
Tenn...20
SC.......30

Same old, same old. Too many TO's, mostly committed by the usual culprit(s). Weak post play when Key comes out. Having KK on the court is like us playing 4 on 5. I'd be happy having all her minutes going to McCoy, who's a better defender, has better hustle, and is better at establishing herself in the post. Use Jazz at PG 100% of the time and set up plays for Horston as the SG.

 

[luballer]

Great post, agree with all. My big frustration with Harper is also the substitution pattern. She seems determined to "play through" her sub plan and seems far more confident KK can improve and contribute than I am.

I thought our best chance to be competitive today was torpedoed by KJH when she subbed in the 3rd quarter, taking out Key and Massengill. Also thought Horston got WAY too many mins, especially at point. How in the world does Horston get more mins handling the ball than Massengill?

Horston had two turnovers in the first 30 seconds, our first two possessions, and IMO the tone was pretty much set. We are so much better mentally than previous seasons, but still very, very fragile. Especially against ranked opponents, we need to start sharp and focused. IMO Horston should have been pulled after the second t.o. and given the opportunity to watch the flow of the game develop.

No way in the world Horston, who does have 111 assists but also a whooping 97 t.o.s on the season, plays more or handles the ball a fraction as much as Jaz, who in slightly more mins overall has 93 assists and only 34 t.o.s. What is hard about making this call? I do wish Jaz would take a little more initiative offensively, especially when all around her are misfiring.

Not sure what the answer is for Horston, but she is not improving in ball handling at all, and that is very concerning this deep into the season. I know Rae continues to be a fog of inconsistency, but maybe time to look at starting her instead of Jordan. Something has to give with JH.

While I'm generally very well pleased with Davis this year, she makes way too many unforced t.o.s as well. Weakest part of her game.

Our posts attempted only 2 shots today! What good is all the height if they are MIA on offense?

Today I felt she was too stubborn and stuck to her substitution pattern. Jaz definitely should’ve played almost the entire game today. She’s not aggressive as Horston, but it’s a mute point if that aggression is leading to turnovers and disrupting offensive flow. Jaz also goes to Horston and tries to calm her down when they are on the floor together and she’s turning the ball over. I’m not sure if Lou is on minute restrictions, but I felt she should’ve played more minutes today. Key playing only 20 minutes in a game when she was disrupting their offensive flow is inexcusable. After we tried it in the first half and they went on their run you have to learn from it and not repeat the same mistake. The minute Key leaves the game teams attack KK.

Two shots by our post is crazy! Our post were working but we are missing the opportunity to feed them. This has been my biggest complaint with the guards this year. You have a split second to read the defense and figure out the best way to get them the ball.

 

[LurkerExposed]

An interesting perspective to have of the game:

After the Tennessee-Connecticut game, South Carolina fans were saying, "if CT plays us like they played against UT, we'll win the game vs CT". Now, over on The Boneyard, there are CT fans saying, "if USC plays us like they played against UT, we'll win the game vs USC".

I think the common denominator here is Tennessee, their size advantage and how they effect scoring and passing in the paint. They had a major reason for both CT and USC scoring and shooting below their season averages.

Thing is, USC won't play against CT like they played against UT, unless CT somehow finds the post presence that the Lady Vols bring to the table for every game. While USC pretty much does that already:

Rebounds Per Game (national rank):
UT: 2
USC: 3
CT: 11

Blocks Per Game:
USC: 1
UT: 2
CT: 16

Steals Per Game:
USC: 69
CT: 88
UT: 310

Defensive Rebounds Per Game:
UT: 1
CT: 8
USC: 11

Offensive Rebounds Per Game:
USC: 3
UT: 25
CT: NR (only top 30 ranked by NCAA)

FG % Defense:
UT: 2
USC: 4
CT: 6

3-pt FG% Defense:
UT: 18
CT: 42
USC: 88

Turnovers Per Game:
USC: 64
CT: 71
UT: 226

Keep in mind that Connecticut bloats its stats now that it's into AAC play. So really USC may do things a bit different from UT defensively, but overall it's very similar to UT defensively as long as Boston is healthy and Amihere is back with the team come Connecticut game-time. The big difference IMO between UT and USC is overall offense and the guard play of South Carolina. Today the 3 guards of Harris, Cooke, and Henderson combined for 37 pts, 9 rebounds, and 13 assists, with only 1 turnover.

In both the CT and USC games today, had the Lady Vols been able to manage their turnovers better, they might be 2-0 now instead of 0-2. I don't think USC will struggle with turnovers against CT like UT did.....

 

[Prophet1]

Couldn’t this team stink on defense and still be turning over the ball that much? I think this team excels on defense because they are buying in. I think they are provided more opportunities to prove they are good on defense because of the turnovers.

Remember last year we had plenty of opportunities to be good on defense with turnovers and that wasn’t the case. I’m just saying

Last year we had Westbrook, Collins,Green ,Green2 and Davis. Shooters and scorers. Heck, they don't care too much bout defense they think you gun your way to victory. Rennie said last week that Jordan inspired her
to excel defensively. Tell us what she wasn't doing last year huh? This year the shooters and scorers are not on the floor only Davis and Green is injuried. So of course if you're not talented in that area ,you have to excel on the other half of the ball, right? Use my energy to defend,
hell , I cant shoot all that well. Go figure , still young.
FREE EMILY

 

[PG1]

The 6 turnovers for them to our 21 is all you need to know about this game. They ended up with 69 shot attempts to our 52 Free throws even so same old story. We don't force turnovers and we create to many. The only way you can compete creating 21 turnovers it to force then into the same otherwise your not going to be able to be in the game and thus we never were.

Very good point about us forcing turnovers we play to much zone. Yes it might slow the other team down but we need to play man more to force turnovers.