Game Thread: (7/9) Lady Vols 70 - Arkansas 63

[Volfan2012]

if you look at last game stats, with a 64% overall FT shooting, which player would you say from that should go to the gym every day for hours extra working on them? i looked at each and couldn't tell you who that player might be, just from that game's stats.

Dye would be one she needs a lot of improvement. Walker overall but looks like she had it going in this game. Burrell missed two but she certainly won't do that very often if ever again. Horston needs to improve a little she was 70 percent last year no reason to regress to 60. Jordan , Key, and Green get to the line a lot would be great if they were all at least 70 percent.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

Last year she didn't have help in the paint. This year she does. That is a factor in her handling it better this year, IMO.

She also got upset easier this year I think coach joy has pushed her to show composure and challenge her. The help in the pains doesn't hurt either lol... but this maturity and growth is awesome to see

 

[Nute Gunray]

Key is getting better,. Walker is getting better (though some of that is probably due to more time away from her last ACL). Jordan is a bit of an enigma but I think she is finding her groove a bit as a stopper and rebounder. She more Lex Hornbuckle than CP3.

Agree 100% Madtown, also did you see Walker's smooth as silk drive to the basket late in the Arkansas game? I hope she does more of that.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

It could be that JH is simply not going to be a great scorer, either in college or pros. Could be that she doesn't have the innate talent for that. But that doesn't mean she can't be - and be thought of - as a great player. Think of Dennis Rodman for example. It could be that asking her to be a jump shooter isn't going to work out well. I've long thought she should play more inside than outside on offense. She'scertainly more of a three than a two, and might actually need to see some time at the four, where I think she would be a rebounding beast.

I agree with those that say that her non-star status in her junior year is being noticed by recruits and rival recruits. I believe Kellie knows what she's doing in developing Jordy, because her rebounding numbers are way up this year, and her defense is great. But I just don't see her as a two on offense.

 

[lvocd]

She also got upset easier this year I think coach joy has pushed her to show composure and challenge her. The help in the pains doesn't hurt either lol... but this maturity and growth is awesome to see

I agree. Both Joy and Samantha were absolute grand-slam hires. I just hope they both stick around long enough to see all their excellent work result in championships.

 

[creekdipper]

Good thing you don't coach her. It's also a good thing you don't try to make your living as a motivational speaker.

You wouldn't think that energy vampire would pay that well, either.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

I agree. Both Joy and Samantha were absolute grand-slam hires. I just hope they both stick around long enough to see all their excellent work result in championships.

I think Coach Sam has been there and done that head coaching and she might go back but i don't know if there is a rush.

Coach Joy may be a harder read but i think they will want to stay and make a difference and if Kellie can keep paying them top dollar as if the winning goes up they may want to stay longer. They both seem to love it here and I think they had a big part in team chemistry and of course kellie gets credit for making this a family .

 

[Volfan2012]

Free throws would've put this game out of reach well before the fourth quarter. Arkansas chose to foul us inside rather than let us take the shot. 29 free throws 36 free throws means they fouled us in the penalty or act of shooting 18 times. We only had 53 shots at the basket and free throws were our other 36 chances to score. We made 23 of 36 which proved to be enough along with 43 percent shooting to win the game. If we had shot 35 percent however then the free throws come into focus a lot stronger. That would've been 19 field goals and one being a three or 39 points. Then 23 free throws made would've been 62 points not enough to win. Not saying we will ever shoot 35 percent, but if a team has decided to put you on the line a bad shooting day can get you beat if your not making 70 to 75 percent.

To show how much variable there is in basketball say we make seven more we win 77 to 63. We only make 50 percent we win by two. Arkansas couldn't guard us inside so looked like part of their game plan was to see how many fouls they could get away with. I thought they got away with almost as many as the Refs called still we made enough to win. Hopefully we'll keep getting better at the line.

 

[LadyVols_WBK]

I went back through the 20 turnovers, looked at each one and labeled them forced, unforced and X (X= should have been a no call or not in either category)...results:
View attachment 425856

Great breakdown

 

[creekdipper]

Jordy is a slasher. If she could incorporate the short jumper as well as Dye (and not the "runners" and "floaters"), she'd be a tremendous offensive threat/high percentage shooter. Add in solid FT shooting, and you've got an unstoppable force, especially knowing that she can find open teammates when doubled.

This may be her goal and may just be a learning curve in changing her shots. The three-pointers, IMO, should be her last option.

 

[Volfan2012]

Jordy is a slasher. If she could incorporate the short jumper as well as Dye (and not the "runners" and "floaters"), she'd be a tremendous offensive threat/high percentage shooter. Add in solid FT shooting, and you've got an unstoppable force, especially knowing that she can find open teammates when doubled.

This may be her goal and may just be a learning curve in changing her shots. The three-pointers, IMO, should be her last option.

She should be playing the same game as Dye she has the quickness and more size. She is never going to be a great perimeter shooter. She needs to learn how to finish through contact Refs weren't giving her much help when she was getting fouled on drives in the first half.

 

[VolBall09]

She should be playing the same game as Dye she has the quickness and more size. She is never going to be a great perimeter shooter. She needs to learn how to finish through contact Refs weren't giving her much help when she was getting fouled on drives in the first half.

She’s also not a superb ball handler. The mental aspect of her game would be so much better without the turnovers she incurs handling the ball.

That’s one thing Dye is great at. She catches the ball where she can either A) make a no dribble move to the hoop or B) take a nice elbow jumper.

That said I’m all for giving Horston the ball in tight games when we need a score. She tends to turn it on then and doesn’t turn the ball over in crunch time. Kellie had her close most of the quarters last season. I notice this year she’s having Walker/Miles take the ball to end the quarter and get a bucket. Horston is getting it at the end of the games when we need her to take over.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Free throws would've put this game out of reach well before the fourth quarter. Arkansas chose to foul us inside rather than let us take the shot. 29 free throws 36 free throws means they fouled us in the penalty or act of shooting 18 times. We only had 53 shots at the basket and free throws were our other 36 chances to score. We made 23 of 36 which proved to be enough along with 43 percent shooting to win the game. If we had shot 35 percent however then the free throws come into focus a lot stronger. That would've been 19 field goals and one being a three or 39 points. Then 23 free throws made would've been 62 points not enough to win. Not saying we will ever shoot 35 percent, but if a team has decided to put you on the line a bad shooting day can get you beat if your not making 70 to 75 percent.

To show how much variable there is in basketball say we make seven more we win 77 to 63. We only make 50 percent we win by two. Arkansas couldn't guard us inside so looked like part of their game plan was to see how many fouls they could get away with. I thought they got away with almost as many as the Refs called still we made enough to win. Hopefully we'll keep getting better at the line.

Last year we made 70% FTs. This year so far we are making 60%. Part of the reason is the players we lost: Rennia was an 85%, Rae was an 82.5%, and Marta was at 75% last season. Horston has also slipped this year, going from 73% to 66%. One culprit is Dye, who is making 12 of 28 for 43%. Another is Walker, who was a 50% or so FT shooter last year and is also this year. Those two shoot enough that their %'s are a big drag on the team.

As a team we have taken 300 FT's this year in 14 games, or 21.5 per game. That means we are losing on average 2 points per game this year vs last year on FTs.

 

[CannonVol80]

I went back through the 20 turnovers, looked at each one and labeled them forced, unforced and X (X= should have been a no call or not in either category)...results:
View attachment 425856

I have a question about turnovers. While the team had 20 turnovers in this game, Arkansas only scored 14 points off of those turnovers, or .7 points/turnover. It would seem to me that, while obvious that reducing the number of turnovers is desirable because that reduces the number of chances the opposing team has to score, keeping the points off of turnovers low is important also. So, for those posters who have experience in the coaching arena, what is considered an an acceptable, or desirable, pts off of tos ratio, realizing that the prime goal of zero is most likely unattainable?

Jim

 

[Memvol44]

I think Coach Sam has been there and done that head coaching and she might go back but i don't know if there is a rush.

Coach Joy may be a harder read but i think they will want to stay and make a difference and if Kellie can keep paying them top dollar as if the winning goes up they may want to stay longer. They both seem to love it here and I think they had a big part in team chemistry and of course kellie gets credit for making this a family .

That's the challenge..keeping them here. Kellie,closing the deal on some of these big time recruits those two are getting to visit would help!

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

That's the challenge..keeping them here. Kellie,closing the deal on some of these big time recruits those two are getting to visit would help!

i'm sure that's what they want to help close the deals because that makes them look even better. I'm not worried about them leaving before the next 3 or 4 seasons. Knowing Lacey's and Jennifer's situations and why they left i feel confident if these two do their jobs and don't disrupt the chemistry they'll be happy here and paid accordingly here at TN. If the head coach bug comes crawling i'm sure they would want a few championships to pad the resume.

 

[Coach Jumper]

I have a question about turnovers. While the team had 20 turnovers in this game, Arkansas only scored 14 points off of those turnovers, or .7 points/turnover. It would seem to me that, while obvious that reducing the number of turnovers is desirable because that reduces the number of chances the opposing team has to score, keeping the points off of turnovers low is important also. So, for those posters who have experience in the coaching arena, what is considered an an acceptable, or desirable, pts off of tos ratio, realizing that the prime goal of zero is most likely unattainable?

Jim

most coaches shoot for 10 or less turnovers and would like to keep the pts off turnovers to maybe 1/3 of the total # of TO's,,,,so if 12 turnovers, 1/3 is 4 so 8pts off turnovers would be in the acceptable range

 

[Voluble2]

Dye is funny. That shot from the free throw line is one she nails at a higher rate in live play than she does during stoppage shooting free throws.

In fact, it seems to be one of her favorite spots.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Dye is funny. That shot from the free throw line is one she nails at a higher rate in live play than she does during stoppage shooting free throws.

In fact, it seems to be one of her favorite spots.

I think I may do an analysis on her FT shot

 

[chuckiepoo]

most coaches shoot for 10 or less turnovers and would like to keep the pts off turnovers to maybe 1/3 of the total # of TO's,,,,so if 12 turnovers, 1/3 is 4 so 8pts off turnovers would be in the acceptable range

…1/3 made buckets..not points.

 

[chuckiepoo]

Obviously a huge concern with their stock so high right now...

Freak? Must be. Otherwise you’d have been banned.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

For one, she can't stay healthy.

The other problem is between the ears. Think Jarrett Guarantano. Occasionally you see glimpses of why she was such a highly rated recruit, but all too often she can't seem to channel her emotions constructively as mistakes and missed shots continue to snowball on the court.

Raw talent clearly isn't the issue and ideally she should be the #1 option as we're approaching the midway point of her junior season, even with a fully healthy Burrell. Unfortunately, it's difficult to ever see her overcoming her physical/mental obstacles for that to happen...

This post about Jordan Horston by Mr. W Basketball isn't aging very well.