Game Thread: Lady Vols V Carson Newman

[Coach Jumper]

Yup, it's just an exhibition game, and it might mean nothing. But...

Last year's team put up 128 points against CN. The year before it was 121. In fact, in the last 14 years the average number of points scored was 110 and the average margin of victory was 58. Lowest point total in that period was 90 in 2014.

But, it's only an exhibition and Kelly gave a lot of minutes to a lot of new players.

Davis looked good, but she'll see every SEC team's top defender and they will all be better than anyone on Carson Newman. Others are going to have to step up. And without a strong inside game the outside shooting will have to get better. A lot better.

You got two likes, which is 3 more than this post deserves.

 

[TnScooby]

Great to get the season underway..Glad to see spirited debate again as opposed to constant bickering about CHW..Time to start a new LV era....

BTW, I discussed LV BB with CPS many many times and I can tell you this..She was convinced that she could take the '97,'98 team and beat anybody, anytime, anyplace..Period..And she always prefaced that by saying "And that ain't braggin', it's just the truth"..She also told me she felt like Chamique and Candace were the best players of their era and quite possibly the best of ANY era..
She told me on numerous occasions that Teresa Geter might be the most underrated defensive post player she coached because she never really wanted to score much, just rule the lane..And that she did.....

TIFWIW

 

[stlvolsfan]

Horston on D looks good.

I noticed that too and boy does she play big! That kid is long and quick.

 

[glv98]

Post play might be dead last because they just aren't that good or are inexperienced.

IMO, this is the worst Tennessee team since the pre-Holdsclaw years. No superstar, mediocre guards and no proven posts. Rennia Davis is the closest ti a sure thing on this team and even she has a history of inconsistency.

I'm not surprised that they struggled vs C-N. I think that's less an indictment of Kellie and more the reality of the lack of talent + inexperience on this team. They are a work in progress, but the kind of team that will be better in March than November once the coaches have a chance to develop the players.

Hi ya'll! Been really looking forward to the season, felt if KJH actually coached half as well as she's done every single other thing since she was hired, we'd be ok.

Wake up call! Yes I know its only an exhibition and experimentation and all but I agree with AMB, this is going to be a real ground-up build. We have to be patient, temper expectations, and look for improvement and consistency over the course of this season. I've been anxious to see how much "talent" we really have, if it was all Holly's fault or if we had really fallen off personnel wise that much. I can see now we're not going to get a clear answer, it's probably a combination.

I was especially disappointed that the offense still looked so, well, godawful. Please, please can we find someone who can semi-consistently throw the ball in the ocean? I know its one game but its not really; this looked like a continuation of the last several teams. I did like the defensive intensity, that looked improved. I also believe Harper can pull them thru the hangover fog of the mental and discipline issues that have dogged the program so that's a plus.

Those who said during the hiring process that this was not a rebuild job were cuckoo to put it mildly. Long as construction progresses at a decent pace, I'll be ok with this season. Then haul in the recruits, hopefully someone somewhere who can shoot.

 

[Volfan2012]

Rewatched the game yesterday and actually saw a lot more than I saw the first time. Again a large number of layups missed by Tennessee and still a lot of ill advised shots way to early in the shot clock. I guess it is ok in an exhibition game, but you don't want to be doing that in an SEC game or any regular game. The lineup was wide and varied a lot of weird combinations that I hope we never see again. I think for several minutes we had Kamera. Emily, Jessie, Jordan, and Jaiden on the floor together probably want ever see that again. Became evident to me that in this game the score was not important to the coaching staff was a lot more important to us fans. Coach Harper did leave the major players in there for all the first quarter then she really just put in players as needed to make sure they got a certain amount of minutes per player. Coach Harper did not coach this one anything like a regular game or use a regular rotation so fans can use any take a way that they want as to how good or bad this team will be. I think judgement should be reserved until we play a game that actually counts.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Hi ya'll! Been really looking forward to the season, felt if KJH actually coached half as well as she's done every single other thing since she was hired, we'd be ok.

Wake up call! Yes I know its only an exhibition and experimentation and all but I agree with AMB, this is going to be a real ground-up build. We have to be patient, temper expectations, and look for improvement and consistency over the course of this season. I've been anxious to see how much "talent" we really have, if it was all Holly's fault or if we had really fallen off personnel wise that much. I can see now we're not going to get a clear answer, it's probably a combination.

I was especially disappointed that the offense still looked so, well, godawful. Please, please can we find someone who can semi-consistently throw the ball in the ocean? I know its one game but its not really; this looked like a continuation of the last several teams. I did like the defensive intensity, that looked improved. I also believe Harper can pull them thru the hangover fog of the mental and discipline issues that have dogged the program so that's a plus.

Those who said during the hiring process that this was not a rebuild job were cuckoo to put it mildly. Long as construction progresses at a decent pace, I'll be ok with this season. Then haul in the recruits, hopefully someone somewhere who can shoot.

So was I....No "flow"

But I figure she had to win, but she also had to use this opportunity to teach things and see groups she may never get to see in the upcoming season.

These girls will get better, faster and grow into a team.
All they have to do is "create combinations" within combinations
Rarely are all 5 on the same page, but if two or three ,, can get into a good sync,,,and play to their strengths then all coach has to do is fill in the gaps.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Rewatched the game yesterday and actually saw a lot more than I saw the first time. Again a large number of layups missed by Tennessee and still a lot of ill advised shots way to early in the shot clock. I guess it is ok in an exhibition game, but you don't want to be doing that in an SEC game or any regular game. The lineup was wide and varied a lot of weird combinations that I hope we never see again. I think for several minutes we had Kamera. Emily, Jessie, Jordan, and Jaiden on the floor together probably want ever see that again. Became evident to me that in this game the score was not important to the coaching staff was a lot more important to us fans. Coach Harper did leave the major players in there for all the first quarter then she really just put in players as needed to make sure they got a certain amount of minutes per player. Coach Harper did not coach this one anything like a regular game or use a regular rotation so fans can use any take a way that they want as to how good or bad this team will be. I think judgement should be reserved until we play a game that actually counts.

Great minds

 

[djtee]

Rewatched the game yesterday and actually saw a lot more than I saw the first time. Again a large number of layups missed by Tennessee and still a lot of ill advised shots way to early in the shot clock. I guess it is ok in an exhibition game, but you don't want to be doing that in an SEC game or any regular game. The lineup was wide and varied a lot of weird combinations that I hope we never see again. I think for several minutes we had Kamera. Emily, Jessie, Jordan, and Jaiden on the floor together probably want ever see that again. Became evident to me that in this game the score was not important to the coaching staff was a lot more important to us fans. Coach Harper did leave the major players in there for all the first quarter then she really just put in players as needed to make sure they got a certain amount of minutes per player. Coach Harper did not coach this one anything like a regular game or use a regular rotation so fans can use any take a way that they want as to how good or bad this team will be. I think judgement should be reserved until we play a game that actually counts.

Also it look like Jaiden was limping a little on her bad knee.

 

[krichunaka]

I watched the replay - Thank you very much, Freak! Of course, everybody has the right to opine, and I’ve enjoyed reading several of yours. I haven’t seen much of our Lady Vols these past few years - more to do with Coach Summitt’s illness, and then her passing, than anything to do with Coach Warlick; and thus, I have only a few youtube videos, and your analysis to go by.
The standout features from those videos bear out what you’ve been saying:
1) Very inconsistent play, offense and defense.
2) Abysmal ball security, and this, by the supposed better/best players. And, worse, the total lack of effort after so many careless passes - just throw the ball to the other team, then casually jog down the court. It’s been difficult to watch.

Coach Kellie was asked about the talent level of the Lady Vols. The question was very presumptive, as though fully expecting her response of affirmation. Maybe, some, or none of you heard her answer the way I did, but, my interpretation was that she very diplomatically disagreed by responding that the “upper part,” (or similar words) is “some” of the best; an honest indictment if ever I’ve heard one.
What I’m seeing, and hearing is, we aren’t as “talented” as we might want to believe. There is a potential (that dreadful word) All-American, and a probable Freshman All-American. Not every team can make such a claim. Unfortunately, however, several of the teams we will play, can.
That’s enough from me, other than to say, we didn’t see The Lady Vols play Carson Newman. We saw a smart - and very CLASSY - group of players and coaches play a little basketball. Yeah, we need to shoot better, switch off, play through screens and fatigue, la de da. But, the first true evaluation can fairly occur on the flight from Northern Indiana.
Cheers!

 

[madtownvol]

Hi ya'll! Been really looking forward to the season, felt if KJH actually coached half as well as she's done every single other thing since she was hired, we'd be ok.

Wake up call! Yes I know its only an exhibition and experimentation and all but I agree with AMB, this is going to be a real ground-up build. We have to be patient, temper expectations, and look for improvement and consistency over the course of this season. I've been anxious to see how much "talent" we really have, if it was all Holly's fault or if we had really fallen off personnel wise that much. I can see now we're not going to get a clear answer, it's probably a combination.

I was especially disappointed that the offense still looked so, well, godawful. Please, please can we find someone who can semi-consistently throw the ball in the ocean? I know its one game but its not really; this looked like a continuation of the last several teams. I did like the defensive intensity, that looked improved. I also believe Harper can pull them thru the hangover fog of the mental and discipline issues that have dogged the program so that's a plus.

Those who said during the hiring process that this was not a rebuild job were cuckoo to put it mildly. Long as construction progresses at a decent pace, I'll be ok with this season. Then haul in the recruits, hopefully someone somewhere who can shoot.

I focused on the 1st quarter before Kellie went with the scrambled line-ups and as she noted, the team "got away from the game plan." That phrase was all too commonly used last season and it is the bad habit, the new staff needs to break with the utmost urgency.

But (again first quarter), the LVs dominated the glass, got points in the paint. I am not too concerned about the shooting struggles. What you don't know with an exhibition is how hard the team worked before the game. It is possible, they had some tired legs plus nerves.

As I see it, Davis, Green, Burrell are going to be high impact players. Horston should come along to be the 4th game changer. Couple that with hard nosed defense and role players doing their jobs, the LVs will be just fine.

But I don't expect this team to really gel much before the SEC season starts. There will be some transition time.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Those who said during the hiring process that this was not a rebuild job were cuckoo to put it mildly.

Do you know how many coaches would love to "rebuild" with five high school All-Americans on the roster?

 

[madtownvol]

Do you know how many coaches would love to "rebuild" with five high school All-Americans on the roster?

This LV team should not be a rebuild at all. It is more of re-training season but that process does not happen over night.

 

[PointGuard]

I did not see the game and have no opinion on the x’s, O’s shot selection chemistry

I did watch Coach’s post game presser. That alone is a big improvement over recent seasons. Comparing this game to other games has no bearing.

There’s a new Coach. Let’s give her an opportunity to Coach. The talent level on this team is not as strong as recent times. So comparing this talent to earlier teams has no bearing either

A new fresh page has been turned. It will be exciting to see how this plays out over the season. Continuous progress will please me

The biggest shortcoming in recent seasons has been lack of player development and the corresponding underperforming of recent talent. If that turns around this season and I think it should then there can be a major turnaround

 

[glv98]

This LV team should not be a rebuild at all. It is more of re-training season but that process does not happen over night.

I guess we just have different definitions. In my book, the LVs have had disappointing season results for several years, getting progressively worse to the point they barely made the tourney last year (and shouldn't have) and were embarrassed once there. Program cementing a rep, and rightly so, as the place "talent" goes to be systematically underdeveloped. Culture problems aplenty. Not sure how that's not a program in need of a rebuild.

Do you know how many coaches would love to "rebuild" with five high school All-Americans on the roster?

I'm so tired of the high school AAs and their dang stars, both for the LVs and the football team. Wish I had a nickel for all the times raw athleticism and potential is mislabeled talent. Shall we once again recite the whole disappointing list of multi-starred recruits who have left here with subpar careers? I mistrust and discount the star system until the barer of the stars proves they can actually, say, hit a lay up consistently. An actual talent to me is a player who consistently helps the team win games and therefore compete for championships. Hadn't seen alot of that lately.

 

[Bell42]

I guess we just have different definitions. In my book, the LVs have had disappointing seasons for several years, getting progressively worse to the point they barely made the tourney last year (and shouldn't have) and were embarrassed once there. Not sure how that's not a program in need of a rebuild.

I'm so tired of the high school AAs and their dang stars, both for the LVs and the football team. Wish I had a nickel for all the times raw athleticism and potential is mislabeled talent. Shall we once again recite the whole disappointing list of multi-starred recruits who have left here with subpar careers? I mistrust and discount the star system until the barer of the stars proves they can actually, say, hit a lay up consistently. I have to see consistent and improving results on the actual hardwood before I call it

 

[glv98]

I’m so tired of the impatience negative content that seems to come from misery. That’s the point of a “high school stars”. As of today the high school stars graduation was about 5 months ago. it was in high school in their class that those rankings are based on and should not be judged other then they had a great run in high school. One measly game and folks throw kids to the wolves, and then be the same people praying and hoping on another thread that you get talent to come join the team that you so say you love. Biased and basing comparisons from decades of basketball that has completely changed in this day. Why even keep showing up? I always wonder what makes people love to stay in bad situations and complain instead of getting out. Maybe find another team?

Whoa Nelly! Find your meds! No one is throwing anyone to any wolves. It's an internet chat board, friend. First time? We discuss (self-realizing enough to know we're frequently blowharding) our opinions of our game and team. Not miserable at all, kinda enjoy it. And Lordy, fully aware nothing we say has any effect on anything, much less who comes to play for the team.

Not sure what you mean about impatient negative content misery being "the point of a "high school stars"." I believe most of the highly-starred players on the LV roster have been out of high school way more than 5 months so not sure what that means either. But I do agree, and it was my point, that their "talent" level should not be judged by what they did in high school.

LOL I thought I was the one being patient and positive. I've said from last year this is going to be a fragile and painstaking process. I think unrealistic expectations are far more dangerous to the program.

Fortunately, because its the internet, there is an LV board for posters who feel as you do. Check it out!

 

[Bell42]

Whoa Nelly! Find your meds! No one is throwing anyone to any wolves. It's an internet chat board, friend. First time? We discuss (self-realizing enough to know we're frequently blowharding) our opinions of our game and team. Not miserable at all, kinda enjoy it. And Lordy, fully aware nothing we say has any effect on anything, much less who comes to play for the team.

Fortunately, because its the internet, there is an LV board for posters who feel as you do. Check it out!

You just completely had a whole rant about being tired about high school dang stars, and i was thinking maybe this is the reason we can’t get recruits right now. I just replied to express what i was tired of. No need for meds.

 

[glv98]

You just completely had a whole rant about being tired about high school dang stars, and i was thinking maybe this is the reason we can’t get recruits right now. I just replied to express what i was tired of. No need for meds.

Thanks for expressing, always. I never take this seriously enough to think we have any effect whatsoever on a young athlete's life choices. We're 12 geezers pecking a keyboard to them. When I say hs stars, btw, I mean their recruiting rankings, not the kids themselves. That may not have been clear.

I'm sure some of us seem to be jumping off the deep end over one stupid exhibition game. It's just that the things that looked glaringly bad were the exact usual suspects that have made the last few seasons so traumatic for us. Namely inexplicably bad shooting and haphazard no-flow offense. Maybe it was a coincidence, or planned experimentation or something, but it brought back bad memories. We've been thru alot so we're easily frightened.

 

[Chipperbones]

Anybody else think we are missing a point guard?

 

[madtownvol]

I guess we just have different definitions. In my book, the LVs have had disappointing season results for several years, getting progressively worse to the point they barely made the tourney last year (and shouldn't have) and were embarrassed once there. Program cementing a rep, and rightly so, as the place "talent" goes to be systematically underdeveloped. Culture problems aplenty. Not sure how that's not a program in need of a rebuild.

If you are an NFL fan, I have the perfect analogy. The difference is one between being named the new head coach of the Green Bay Packers (retraining) or the Miami Dolphins (rebuilding). Per the Packers, they had 3 seasons of not making the playoffs despite having a roster with many former All-pro and one future hall of famer. The team had slumped into a continuous state of 8-8 mediocrity, with the season turning on a few “if only” type losses. Former head coach Mike McCarthy stayed at the helm too long (in hindsight) because of his prior successes and the idea that injuries had contributed to the Packer’s failure to make the playoffs. Last year, it become clear that the team had totally stagnated and that the players no longer were buying. This year, a new coach, and boom, the Pack is back at 7-1 and after looking a little suspect in their opening games, now are getting juggernaut aura about them.

Miami Dolphins – that is a team not only needing to change culture but it has to rebuild a roster.

Kellie Harper has inherited a team with quality players that should have easily won 5-6 more games last season, if they had any semblance of a consistent defensive presence.

Kellie is a teacher, which Holly clearly was not. I think she used the CN game for specific strategic reasons—evaluating different player combinations and generating teaching moments before the actual season begins.

I expect that her approach to ETSU might be similar but hopefully, the team will hit a few more jumpshots.

 

[glv98]

Anybody else think we are missing a point guard?

This post could have been from any of the previous five or so seasons. The answer has always been yes. At least on a consistent basis. A few sporadic good to even great games here and there but nothing you could bank on.

Horston? Please Basketball Gods!

 

[glv98]

madtown, I think its semantics, rebuild vs retrain. Let's just get better and be fun to follow again, right?

 

[LVsinceJV]

Beginning to agree with you all that Horston should be developed as our primary point guard. Start developing her now, because a skilled PG (especially with her combo of height and speed) is so rare in the W.

 

[Amb3096]

Anybody else think we are missing a point guard?

I hope Horston adjusts quickly, because I don't think Massengill is an SEC-caliber starting PG. I don't see anything from her that stands out. I'm not sure why she was so highly ranked out of HS given that she can't shoot and isn't a great playmaker.

 

[madtownvol]

madtown, I think its semantics, rebuild vs retrain. Let's just get better and be fun to follow again, right?

To some extent but I think the distinction also has some implications for expectations. A true rebuilding team would not be expected to compete for an SEC title or a sweet 16 spot. I think those are the reasonable expectations for this year's squad.
Although the preseason rankings are more supportive of your position. I am betting that these team is being seriously undervalued but time will tell.