Game Thread: Lady Vols v UCONN; Thurs. 8PM; on ESPN

[madtownvol]

View attachment 533266
First five in.

I think that group should be the core unit. Hollingshead has come into her own and she provides the physical presence that Striplin can't. There are match-ups where Karoline can be effective because she can step out and mid range hit jumpers and even 3s on good days. But when the opponent has a quality big, it has to be Hollingshead followed by Franklin.

Jordan H. and Rickea on the floor together as much as possible has to be the rotation decision from here on out. Nothing else makes sense.

You could use Puckett or Justine as the rotation for Tess; Powell obviously for Walker; Puckett could also slot into Rickea's slot when she needs a sub (such as due to fouls. There is no comparable option for Jordan who is the team's Swiss army knife. So, Jordy eat your wheaties and take your vitamins because you can't be subbed. When jordan H. does go out, that is when see the Powell and Walker combo which has not been effective all season and is not likely to ever be effective. Kellie has also used a combo of Franklin and Hollingshead when Jordan H is out. When those two are paired with Walker and Powell, that has been a recipe for offensive disaster. But Frankin and Hollingshead with say Jackson, Darby, and either Walker or Powell has some balance to it.

 

[Darth_Vol]

One way to make that statement a safer bet would be if you had said, "Tennessee will never beat UConn under Harper, while Geno is still coaching."

No, my statement is still factually correct. Furthermore, from this disappointing season and looking ahead at the foreseeable future of the Tennessee program, I would also bet Kellie is out at Tennessee well before Geno retires from UConn...

 

[ncteacher88]

I wouldn't exactly call Svetlana Abrosimova "second tier."

When I responded to another poster's comment about some also being, "second tier," and I listed: "Abebayo, Sadiqu, Rigsby, Arblic, Grossman, and Bettencourt." I did not include Svetlana in that list intentionally. I also did not include Kia Nurse, Anna Makurat, or Kelly Shumaker (of the 11 block fame) as these four were clearly NOT second tier. I left out Jess McCormack as I wasn't sure how to categorize her (she was talented, but injured and never played). However, without being too argumentative, my original post stands that most of the prior international players were not major contributors and therefore fall into the, "second tier," category. To summarize, in Geno's 38 years at UConn, prior to this year, he had a total of four players who were significant contributors from foreign countries, and therefore (again prior to this year) the perception that he has some pipeline to foreign talent does not seem highly unique to Uconn compared to other programs.

 

[Volfan2012]

There was talk during the game yesterday about how much longer Geno will coach, (I watched the replay as I was in Knoxville) and they speculated that yesterday possibly might be his last trip to Knoxville. With the players he has coming back, and the top recruits that he has coming in, I doubt this will be the case. However, IF he were to leave, and IF Kelli coaches for many more years, and IF all the prognosticators on here are correct about the demise of UConn after Geno retires, then that statement has a great chance to be false. One way to make that statement a safer bet would be if you had said, "Tennessee will never beat UConn under Harper, while Geno is still coaching."

The Tennessee demise has been here for a while it didn't start when Harper got here it was already in full blown existence. You could also say that UConn has been in some demise since 2016 as they haven't won a National championship since then. They have a shot this year not a good one the SC team is a monster and Stanford has all the talent to win as well. I would put UConn in with Indiana and two or three others with their shot to win this season. UConn is not the only team to score 80 on us this season. Ohio State scored 87, Indiana 87, UCLA 80 so you can see were not very good defensively this season. It will be interesting to see if Geno can find a way to beat the team of this decade thus far South Carolina. If he is the over and above elite coach with no talent that some keep referring to him as he should be able to find a way to pull it off. If he does that will be his greatest accomplishment ever.

 

[Volfan2012]

No, my statement is still factually correct. Furthermore, from this disappointing season and looking ahead at the foreseeable future of the Tennessee program, I would also bet Kellie is out at Tennessee well before Geno retires from UConn...

I would say that next year is the turning point for her. It is time to face the music. I said year four was when the big step had to be made. It was not made to this point and I will give them the opportunity to still do it. Going to be totally unacceptable to be a middle of the SEC team next season and the prospects of that happening are huge. Depending on Seniors Jackson and Horston to forgo the WNBA and Key to fully recover is a lot to ask for. Without that happening where do you go? I don't see anyway to get to where we need to be cause the goal is the same for her as it was for Holly and the time is here to do it or find someone who can.

 

[brassie]

Think this was in response to the poster who called Dorka trash.

You are probably right. I don't know the poster (no history here). I just couldn't understand why it jumped in my sheet with both feet.

 

[madtownvol]

I would say that next year is the turning point for her. It is time to face the music. I said year four was when the big step had to be made. It was not made to this point and I will give them the opportunity to still do it. Going to be totally unacceptable to be a middle of the SEC team next season and the prospects of that happening are huge. Depending on Seniors Jackson and Horston to forgo the WNBA and Key to fully recover is a lot to ask for. Without that happening where do you go? I don't see anyway to get to where we need to be cause the goal is the same for her as it was for Holly and the time is here to do it or find someone who can.

I am a bit more optimistic. It would make sense for Key to return and play her way into a 1st round pick. So, Key and Hollingshead should be a very good post combo. Puckett can become a much better player. She has shown flashes but has not put it all together. Tess is going to be a notch up, as will Powell. I think Justine will fill the star role, just like Rae had the huge jump from freshman to sophomore. But Kellie needs to win in the portal again. Her inability to sign an incoming class has her a bit under the gun. But she did it once, and I bet she does it again.

 

[ncteacher88]

The Tennessee demise has been here for a while it didn't start when Harper got here it was already in full blown existence. You could also say that UConn has been in some demise since 2016 as they haven't won a National championship since then. They have a shot this year not a good one the SC team is a monster and Stanford has all the talent to win as well. I would put UConn in with Indiana and two or three others with their shot to win this season. UConn is not the only team to score 80 on us this season. Ohio State scored 87, Indiana 87, UCLA 80 so you can see were not very good defensively this season. It will be interesting to see if Geno can find a way to beat the team of this decade thus far South Carolina. If he is the over and above elite coach with no talent that some keep referring to him as he should be able to find a way to pull it off. If he does that will be his greatest accomplishment ever.

I hate to get into a discussion where I feel I must defend Uconn since I am a visitor on another school's board. However, it depends on your definition of a program in decline. They are still in the midst of a 14 year streak of making it to the Final Four. That is still an unprecedented level of excellence even without winning a national title. Without this incredible stretch of bad luck they would have put an even more formidable team on the court this year, and hopefully next year, and have recruited well for the future. There have been stretches where there has been talk that other schools, such as Notre Damn, Baylor, and now USC have supplanted Uconn (and formerly Tennessee) as the premier school in women's college basketball. However, the first two did not live to fruition after relatively short terms of "dominance." USC has had two premier players which guided them, and have recruited well recently, but only time will tell how long lasting their success will be. I believe that it is a bit early to declare a, "team of the decade," after two years and one month of the decade. Currently USC with two national championships (and even if they win this year) still falls in the category with Stanford (3), Baylor (3), Notre Damn (2), the other USC (2), and La Tech (2), but still FAR behind both the Vols and UConn.

Edit: There is a reason that they play the game. I believe what UConn has done this year has been exceptional, all things considered. However, I am not thinking about the national championship. I watch one game at a time. Due to parity most anyone can be beaten. After watching UConn get destroyed in the rebounding area last night, I will be severely concerned with that aspect of a matchup with USC. Geno discussed his players being tired and making mistakes. Also, due to lack of depth, and concerned with fouls, it was evident that their defensive pressure had to back off. Having only one primary ball handler was shown as a weakness against the press. This depth issue against the depth of USC is concerning. While good coaching can offset some issues, you can't teach size. However, it will be settled on the court.

 

[Volfan2012]

I am a bit more optimistic. It would make sense for Key to return and play her way into a 1st round pick. So, Key and Hollingshead should be a very good post combo. Puckett can become a much better player. She has shown flashes but has not put it all together. Tess is going to be a notch up, as will Powell. I think Justine will fill the star role, just like Rae had the huge jump from freshman to sophomore. But Kellie needs to win in the portal again. Her inability to sign an incoming class has her a bit under the gun. But she did it once, and I bet she does it again.

We'll see what the roster looks like come July 1st and then we can make an assumption. We lost Key this year it was a big blow defensively for us. I would be ok if I could see improvement on defense which I can when she plays the right team most of the game. Overall we gave up 84 to UConn this last game and 87 in game one so just not happening on defense. Key wasn't a factor she was sick from game one so posters saying she won't help just don't know the difference between a healthy Key and a sick one. If Key can come back still got to replace Horston and Jackson most likely and you need a point guard. I just can't count on Powell to do it she is a senior this year should be playing like one. I am glad you are optimistic wish I could be more so.

 

[creekdipper]

(Deleted so as to rise above the gutter).

 

[Volfan2012]

I hate to get into a discussion where I feel I must defend Uconn since I am a visitor on another school's board. However, it depends on your definition of a program in decline. They are still in the midst of a 14 year streak of making it to the Final Four. That is still an unprecedented level of excellence even without winning a national title. Without this incredible stretch of bad luck they would have put an even more formidable team on the court this year, and hopefully next year, and have recruited well for the future. There have been stretches where there has been talk that other schools, such as Notre Damn, Baylor, and now USC have supplanted Uconn (and formerly Tennessee) as the premier school in women's college basketball. However, the first two did not live to fruition after relatively short terms of "dominance." USC has had two premier players which guided them, and have recruited well recently, but only time will tell how long lasting their success will be. I believe that it is a bit early to declare a, "team of the decade," after two years and one month of the decade. Currently USC with two national championships (and even if they win this year) still falls in the category with Stanford (3), Baylor (3), Notre Damn (2), The other USC (2), and La Tech (2), but still FAR behind both the Vols and UConn.

I said they are the team of the decade thus far. There is some talk that Boston is not going Pro coming back for a Covid year. Second their is no demise in their roster it is loaded with AA's all the way down to slot number 12. I didn't say UConn was in total demise just Championship demise so I'm just saying with his ability to coach this would be a huge opportunity if he could pull it off. It would be totally unexpected. Would certainly be far better than beating Tennessee a team in total collapse for the most part. That is not much an accomplishment this season everyone elite or even good is doing it.

 

[th2421]

We were so slow in running the half court and very stagnant at times. It is like what do you think is going to change by standing around? We can blame the PGs for holding on to the ball for too long (which was a problem on several possessions) but the team has to help the point guards out by MOVING.

Agreed. I actually think this season we move much more than any season I can remember (except maybe that year Pat implemented a motion offense with Kara Lawson and Gwen Jackson), but still not consistently enough. Rickea is the player who seems to move the most, or at least does an excellent job of cutting to get an open look. She didn't really do that last night though, and I'm not sure if that was nerves, UConn got in her head, or the officials got in her head/way...

 

[LasVegasBill23]

No, my statement is still factually correct. Furthermore, from this disappointing season and looking ahead at the foreseeable future of the Tennessee program, I would also bet Kellie is out at Tennessee well before Geno retires from UConn...

here is a question related to how long AD will keep coaches around....... how good does AD expect Lady Vols to be? I think as long as we are competitive then that is OK holly should have been broomed the first year..... she couldnt coach she stayed 7 yrs it hurt the program

 

[Dadof2Vols]

here is a question related to how long AD will keep coaches around....... how good does AD expect Lady Vols to be? I think as long as we are competitive then that is OK holly should have been broomed the first year..... she couldnt coach she stayed 7 yrs it hurt the program

'Rise Glorious': Danny White Maps Out Five Year Tennessee Athletics Strategic Plan | Rocky Top Insider

Competitive Excellence
Goal: We will cultivate a championship culture that propels Tennessee to compete for SECand national championships.

• Objective 1.1: Earn the top Learfield Directors’ Cup finish among SEC schools and finish in the top 15 in three out of every five years while consistently winning SEC and national championships across the board.
• Objective 1.2: Consistently win National Championships
  • Strategy: Tennessee will win a national championship in at least one sport every four years; and each sport will
    achieve at least one national top-16 finish every four years.
• Objective 1.3: Consistently win conference championships and finish in the top third of the conference standings annually (all sports).
  • Strategy: Each sport will win a conference championship at least once every five years; Tennessee Athletics aims to capture five conference championships in one academic year while averaging at least three conference championships per year over the next five years.

 

[LV renaissance]

I was hungover with disappointment today despite not drinking a drop. The disappointment is not just because we lost to UCONN but that we lost with our top players being seniors with hardly any elite talent among the underclassmen and ZERO recruits coming in next year. On top of that, how is Kelly now going to recruit better in the future when there is even less momentum in our program now compared to the last couple of years. The only chance for her recruiting to improve was to show that we are headed in the direction of being a Final 4 team. So, part of the grief about the game was really taking in the possibility that this whole ship is still going side-ways and it may take years and another coach to right the ship. Unlike some posters here, I deeply hope that I am wrong and will fully support the team no matter what happens. I just can't stand the thought of a lengthy further decline and a new coach that won't have people like Jordy and Key to help rebuild with. I am getting old .

In regard to the defense, it is perplexing that we have played several excellent quarters of defense but can't come anywhere close to that for a whole game. This shows we have the capability in theory but we never have consistent effort on defense throughout a whole game. Team speed is an issue when we play certain teams, and it will be more of one against LSU than it was for UCONN. Yes, we got beat at times by UCONN due to team speed but we got beat more often just by their excellent offensive execution that is based on lots of movement through quick passing and constant player motion. It is less based on unbelievable foot speed. In fact, I really wonder if when we have Horston, Jillian, Powell, Jackson, and Walker are on the court if we are not a faster team that UCONN. We just don't have the offensive schemes to utilize their speed. As mentioned previously by many, we also elect to start games with one of our slowest possible lineups. LSU will absolutely do the same thing as UCONN did if we start the same lineup there.

I think one of the main differences between UCONN and LSU is that UCONN will kill you with finesse, skill, and execution while LSU will kill you with extreme athleticism and effort. Hard to pick your poison, but I sure hope the Lady Vols will surprise us with a supreme effort that shows that the team and coaches learned from the UCONN loss. Maybe at some point in the future someone can copy my first paragraph and tease about this not aging well.

 

[hugo92]

Are you another sc fan?

gamecocks? no, but I admire Dawn Staley because she has class unlike that loser Geno. I enjoy seeing her smack him around.

 

[plumbervol]

How good a coach is KJH? I don't know. The real question what would Geno's record be with our roster. IMO no better but I can assure you the difference is if he was here we would have better players on the floor, he would go get them. Next some of the current roster would not be here, to start Horston would be in jail facing attempted murder charges and Geno would be in the intensive care unit. I doubt Jackson would have landed here from the portal. Another difference probably no more than 6 of the current roster would ever see the court if Horston did not ball bat him and Rickea was here. He aIso would have a much easier schedule. I do believe that Kim Mulkey would have a better record than KJH with the same players and the same schedule. She is that good as is Staley and Tara. A few other coaches are upper tier and could be successful.

 

[turbovol]

gamecocks? no, but I admire Dawn Staley because she has class unlike that loser Geno. I enjoy seeing her smack him around.

Staley doesn't have much class. She canceled a basketball game against BYU because, supposedly, somebody on another team might have heard a BYU fan say something inappropriate or racist. BYU investigated and could find nothing. Completely idiotic overreaction by Staley.

 

[Defaultuser]

Staley doesn't have much class. She canceled a basketball game against BYU because, supposedly, somebody on another team might have heard a BYU fan say something inappropriate or racist. BYU investigated and could find nothing. Completely idiotic overreaction by Staley.

Oh no so egregious to stand up for her player. Lmao. Bet your neck was red with anger. Clown

 

[youcancallmeAl]

At least yesterday, Hollingshead matched up well with Dorka. But I disagree that Rickea and Edwards was a wash; Edwards is the better player on both ends of the ball and it showed last night. She can guard Jackson, but Jackson can’t guard her.

They’re kind of playing Jackson out of position. She’d be better at the wing. She can get away against less talented 4’s, but she’ll get exploited against the elite ones like Edwards or Reese on Sunday. The ideal lineup for Tennessee would be Horston at the 2 and Jackson at the 3 with a true PG and a true PF. The problem is that the PFs on the team are too slow (Puckett, Striplin) or can’t shoot more than 5-ft from the basket (Franklin). Ideally, you want a big who has a face up game out to about 15-17 feet.

If Jackson/Horston had more reliable 3-pt shots, they’d be unstoppable at the shooting guard/wing spots.

Yeah, I forgot Rickea and Edwards were matched. So makes it 4 out of 5 mismatches, with possible exception of Hollingshead.

I agree with your ideal lineup discussion. Before the season started, that's the lineup I wanted, too, but with Hollingshead at the four and Key at the five. With that lineup and a good PG, it wouldn;'t have mattered if we never made a three.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

I think that is probably true. Even with their roster problems, their starting 5 will beat anyone if they shoot like they did against UT, but that is not likely to happen, as good as they shoot 57% is top end stuff.

Yep, but you have to credit our lousy defense for at least some of that 57%.

 

[madtownvol]

here is a question related to how long AD will keep coaches around....... how good does AD expect Lady Vols to be? I think as long as we are competitive then that is OK holly should have been broomed the first year..... she couldnt coach she stayed 7 yrs it hurt the program

So, in Holly's first year--and you know the old thing about how hard it is to follow a legend--the LVs won their 17th SEC regular season title and advanced to their 26th NCAA Elite Eight. Warlick was chosen Spalding Maggie Dixon National Rookie Coach of the Year and SEC Coach of the Year.

So you would have fired the SEC coach of the year? Ooooh, the national press from that decision sure would have helped the program and I am sure any available coach would have jumped at the opportunity to go to a school where winning the conference and being named of the year gets you fired, Yeah boy...... You definitely know to build a program.

Holly had a great run for four years and then things starting sliding down hill (though her recruiting stayed strong). Give the woman her due....

 

[ocoandasoc]

I wouldn't exactly call Svetlana Abrosimova "second tier."

Neither was Kia Nurse. And, having watched every home game Orly Grossman played in for UConn I can say that she was a little better than second tier.

 

[Darth_Vol]

I was hungover with disappointment today despite not drinking a drop. The disappointment is not just because we lost to UCONN but that we lost with our top players being seniors with hardly any elite talent among the underclassmen and ZERO recruits coming in next year. On top of that, how is Kelly now going to recruit better in the future when there is even less momentum in our program now compared to the last couple of years. The only chance for her recruiting to improve was to show that we are headed in the direction of being a Final 4 team. So, part of the grief about the game was really taking in the possibility that this whole ship is still going side-ways and it may take years and another coach to right the ship. Unlike some posters here, I deeply hope that I am wrong and will fully support the team no matter what happens. I just can't stand the thought of a lengthy further decline and a new coach that won't have people like Jordy and Key to help rebuild with. I am getting old .

You've perfectly encapsulated why it's not hyperbole to say this was a program defining loss and what a significant portion of the LV fan base - what's left of it - is feeling...

 

[Majors]

Auriemma has proven over and over that if a player commits to his coaching, they will leave the team as a much better player. I think a couple of current examples are Muhl (IMO one of the best PG in the country) who started out as an out of control foul waiting to happen and Edwards an underachiever that will be an AA before she leaves.

She alone has 14 assist, we as a team had 12