Game Thread: Lady Vols vs. No. 1 South Carolina; 7PM Thurs, ESPN

It was a bad night for Tess no question. She actually missed two open 3's that could have been momentum changers. She just missed open shots. SC defense had zilch to do with it. There also was one play where she made a ball fake, beat her defender and created a wide open shot at the FT line (but sadly she air-balled it).

But, as the season has gone on, Tess has been scoring more from mid range and getting to the rim, Her game is improving and she is clearly working on being more than a spot-up shooter. She still has a ways to go but lets not forget that she was coming off of a fantastic 17 pt (5 for 6 from 3) game against Auburn.

The LVs don't win that game without her. So, let's not disparage her unfairly.
Not a knock on Tess, and I saw what she did against Auburn. But they were also sending multiple defenders at Horston/Jackson and Tess had more room to operate. She had a defender staying with her all game yesterday, and she will never have sustained success scoring against someone like Cooke or Beal. The threes she missed weren’t that open and she rushed her shots. Even that pump fake was short lived because even though she got free she hurriedly put up an ugly shot because it looked like she was worried that she’d get blocked from behind.

Tess is like Barber from Alabama. If you let her get open, she’ll make you pay. But she is easy to neutralize as long as the defense keeps track of her.
 
I think the key thing in your statement is stronger bench and better talent than the LVs. When you look at the two teams, I am not seeing one where X and O coaching is the differentiator. SC's offensive schemes look whole lot like what the LVs run. As I believe PHS once said, you can't coach height. The LVs actually did a decent job on Boston (holding her to 11 pts) but got killed on the boards (which is usually the LVs modus operandi). The LVs TO's were close to a season low. So, on many coaching dimensions, things looked pretty good. But 2nd chance points; making the LVs miss at the rim; and SC hitting some timely 3 sealed our doom.

SC is a mirror image of the great LV teams and they are what Kellie seems to be aspiring to. But, she really does not have the right kind of players for this system (and Key's absence magnifies that problem). Since it is clear that Kellie ain't changing her system, she has got to find the right kind of players. I don't think it is an objective talent shortfall so as much not having the right kind of talent.


Against South Carolina we got absolutely nothing offensively out of our guards--and very little out of anybody not name Jackson or Horston.
Strictlin made 3 treys and has some qualities, but her limited athleticism limits her effectiveness. And we got a couple of baskets out of Hollingshead--who should have gotten the ball more. But that was it. We STILL have players who try to lob the ball into our low-post players--and at least three/four times in the first three quarters of the game, a SC defender deflected the lob. Poor fundamentals--you use the bounce pass to get the ball to a low-post player.

We lost this game in the 2nd quarter, when we let a nice lead evaporate--and the main reason we lost it is that Horston, who had an excellent first quarter, was absolutely awful in the 2nd quarter. She went from one extreme to the other. I think she was either 0-5 or 0-6 in the quarter. First, she took a terrible, off--balance shot and missed, then she missed a layup, then she badly missed another shot, then badly missed an open 3-footer--and finished by badly missing her last shot. She wasn't even close to making any of the shots she took. AND she had either 2 or 3 turnovers in the quarter. This is the issue with Horston. In this her fourth year, she's still prone to making bad decisions with the basketball--taking bad shots and missing. Just not a disciplined player. incredibly erratic, which describes her her entire career. You can't have wild swings in play from someone who's supposed to be one of your best players. She clearly tries to do too much at times, and, in her defense, when you don't have a lot other players who can score, you are apt to be over-aggressive and make bad decisions. She can take the ball close to the basket on just about anybody--but needs to kick the ball out more often for three-point shots instead of trying difficult, off-balance shots.

We were smart to play zone in this game--and really packed our players in the paint and made it difficult for their bigs. Still, we were very disorganized at times---players not knowing exactly where they should be---and gave up a ton of offensive rebounds, more than a few of which were the result of having all our players close to the basket, and so long caroms were often snagged by South Carolina players.
 
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If Tess was in the game, Beal was really the only one she could match up with defensively. She wouldn't stand a chance against Cooke who is in constant motion. Beal doesn't look to score, but I predicted that she'd change her stance on that once she saw Darby was on her, and she was a lot more aggressive than normal on offense.
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This is my one criticism of Tess Darby. She doesn't seem to move around as much as the guard she is playing. She should be going through the paint getting screens on the blocks from Striplin, Puckett, Franklin, Hollingshed, etc to get open on the 3 line or mid-range shot. Same for Horston. The added bonus is you wear out the opposing guard or get a mismatch. They also have to hit the 3 when this happens. When Powell, Darby, Horston drives at the basket, the kick out 3 is there, a mid-range shot, or a pass to the screener. They don't have to drive into the paint and get blocked. Shoot a mid-range and force the help D to come out. The more they hits those shots, the more the post players are going to have to come out which gets them out of position for the rebound. It also opens up our posts. The other thing I liked was the high screen drive or kick out for 3 to Striplin. 4 times that play was run and Striplin hit 2 3s and RJ scored 2 baskets. You could put Puckett, Hollingshed, Pissot (when she plays), Jackson (With Horston handling the ball) there too and if they adjust out drive the ball for the short range shot or lay up or kick out or a pick and roll.

The other thing I noticed was that high ball screen SC ran, our help D never showed up and Beale drove to the basket numerous times for the score. And then there is that zone in the second quarter where Beale killed us. Boston or another player went to the foul line drawing a defender over to her which allowed Beale to swing to the 3 line and nail them. That would have been a good time for a TO to adjust the D and stop the bleeding. When the game was 8 in the forth, Darby also got backed to the hoop and Beale scored over her which was a mismatch they exploited to great effect.

Overall, after watching the game, I can see why SC won by 13. They out rebounded us and hit close shots when they needed.
 
Just a little color to add to the game.

My daughter was in the student section near the bench and said she saw one of our guards motion to be subbed for. When she came out she headed straight for the trash can and threw up in it.

Things like that you really can't tell when watching on TV. I am not sure whether the player was suffering from the virus going around, had run too hard, had eaten something disagreeable, or had a bad case of nerves.

In a more lighthearted vein, my daughter had the giant Tamari Key head that you wave when the other team shoots free throws and she had it stolen from her during the game. I told her I was very disappointed that she allowed Tamari to be kidnapped like that. It was doubly sad because Tamari is her favorite player.
 
Just a little color to add to the game.

My daughter was in the student section near the bench and said she saw one of our guards motion to be subbed for. When she came out she headed straight for the trash can and threw up in it.

Yes, I tell people all the time that people who are blessed to get to attend the games often see and understand a lot more of what actually happened in a game than folks who only get to see it on TV. I can tell you through lots of experience closely observing players' body language, facial expressions, interactions with teammates and coaches, how they are warming up, etc., that some of our players should avoid the game of poker like the plague. They have tells that Stevie Wonder could see. Lol
 
Speaking of "tells," most people probably noticed it too since it was so obvious, but the great Pat Summitt's tell that she was particularly nervous about a game was that her neck would get red splotches on it or turn almost completely red, depending on the game. She was well known for being cool under pressure and never showing it if she was worried about how things were going. But her neck told her business! lol
 
It was a bad night for Tess no question. She actually missed two open 3's that could have been momentum changers. She just missed open shots. SC defense had zilch to do with it. There also was one play where she made a ball fake, beat her defender and created a wide open shot at the FT line (but sadly she air-balled it).

But, as the season has gone on, Tess has been scoring more from mid range and getting to the rim, Her game is improving and she is clearly working on being more than a spot-up shooter. She still has a ways to go but lets not forget that she was coming off of a fantastic 17 pt (5 for 6 from 3) game against Auburn.

The LVs don't win that game without her. So, let's not disparage her unfairly.
In benchmark games/ranked teams. For us to have a chance she needs to be 12+ a game against this level. All but one was a loss as well. Miss St second game she had 10 points.

SC - 2 points
LSU- 6 points
Stanford- 5 points
UConn- 6 points
UCLA- 3 points
VT- 2 points
Colorado- 0 points
Gonzaga - 6 points
 
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In benchmark games/ranked teams. For us to have a chance she needs to be 12+ a game against this level. All losses as well. Miss St second game she had 10 points.

SC - 2 points
LSU- 6 points
Stanford- 5 points
UConn- 6 points
UCLA- 3 points
VT- 2 points
Colorado- 0 points
Gonzaga - 6 points

Absolutely. The supporting cast to RJ and JH must score 30+.
 
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Absolutely. The supporting cast to RJ and JH must score 30+.
It is interesting to note that had Key been healthy, her past production would likely have been duplicated, which was North of something like 10 PPG and close to that in rebounds. Now, her substitutes certainly make up for some of that, but not all. And that doesn’t even address any growth in her game which may have occurred. Offensively, the difference may not be huge, but defensively it is much bigger. Her presence on defense was far more productive than her replacements combine to result. As for the rest of the players combining to contribute say 26 more points (30- the diff in 5 spot production from replacements), that seems like an easy number tbh, given 2 other starters plus the bench.

UT needs to simply recruit better players, because those numbers actually seem rather low to achieve. The Walker, Darby, Puckett, Miles and Wynn types need to be upgraded imo, and when that happens 26-30 PPG from the lot would be expected easily. I don’t place Holl or Strip in that group, I think they both have much higher ceilings and may well (esp Holl) soon be much bigger contributors.

It seems like the guards and forwards are the issue, because if Key is back next season the post position will more than pull its weight. Outside of Jordy and RJ, the team speed seems lacking. When Jordy hauls ass down court she is often alone, same for RJ. They can push the ball downcourt as fast as anyone in the game, not so much with the other players. Wynn and Miles may be fast athletes, but not while controlling a ball to transition downcourt against a defense. I thought the SC players, esp their guards and forwards were as a group much faster bringing the ball to their own basket. Same on defense.

Even saying all that, UT is not that far off. The Stanford, SC and LSU games clearly showed this, a few more players that can score and defend at that level gets UT over the hump this year In many of the bigger games. It would be nice if one or both of JH and RJ came back next season for UT to help bridge the gap until more such players are brought in. Recruiting is really important the next 6-18 months to say the least. If both star players move on to the WNBA this year, I don’t see how UT will have much offensive speed to say the least.
 
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UT needs to simply recruit better players, because those numbers actually seem rather low to achieve. The Walker, Darby, Puckett, Miles and Gwynn types need to be upgraded imo, and when that happens 26-30 PPG from the lot would be expected easily. I don’t place Holl or Strip in that group, I think they both have much higher ceilings and may well (esp Holl) soon be much bigger contributors. It seems like the guards and forwards are the issue, because if Key is back next season the post position will more than pull its weight.

Yes, having better players would make for a better team. If Kellie could bring a set of All-American candidates through the portal and could completely upgrade the team at every position, I for one, would support that move (as controversial as that statement might be, I will stand by it!!!)

But with the group of players we have now, yes Darby has her limits and has not produced in the bigger games as one would like. On the flipside, her improvement curve is impressive and she is by far the team's best 3-point shooter. Kellie offensive scheme does not help her cause because the LVs just don't run plays to free-up outside shooters. So, she is going to have improve her off the ball movement but I see evidence that such a change can happen in her remaining two seasons.

Sara "Bucketts" was an all SEC freshman player who seems to have hit the dreaded sophomore slump. Part of the problem has to be that, with line-up changes, her role on the team is not clear and she is over thinking things. I think that is correctable problem (for next season).

Wynn seems like a player with a big upside but she also needs some role clarity and playing time (and overall improvement in her offensive game), all things that can happen next year.

Holllingshead looks like she could become a beast. Her game has all the facets you want in a big but she is not consistent yet but that will come.

And Justine is waiting in the wings.....
 
Yes, having better players would make for a better team. If Kellie could bring a set of All-American candidates through the portal and could completely upgrade the team at every position, I for one, would support that move (as controversial as that statement might be, I will stand by it!!!)

But with the group of players we have now, yes Darby has her limits and has not produced in the bigger games as one would like. On the flipside, her improvement curve is impressive and she is by far the team's best 3-point shooter. Kellie offensive scheme does not help her cause because the LVs just don't run plays to free-up outside shooters. So, she is going to have improve her off the ball movement but I see evidence that such a change can happen in her remaining two seasons.

Sara "Bucketts" was an all SEC freshman player who seems to have hit the dreaded sophomore slump. Part of the problem has to be that, with line-up changes, her role on the team is not clear and she is over thinking things. I think that is correctable problem (for next season).

Wynn seems like a player with a big upside but she also needs some role clarity and playing time (and overall improvement in her offensive game), all things that can happen next year.

Holllingshead looks like she could become a beast. Her game has all the facets you want in a big but she is not consistent yet but that will come.

And Justine is waiting in the wings.....

Mad,
I was once high on Puckett, but two things I noticed this year, no speed and no jump in her game. So probably a role player, maybe a good role player but l don’t see a difference maker in her, hope I am wrong. I don’t particularly like her demeanor in games this year either, which is weird. She does not show the fire that Stripling shows as an example. She looks unattached.

Miles and Wynn to me are both role players. Too many holes in their games to fix in college to become above average starters. I like Darby also, but she has one tool in her box and it doesn’t work against teams with good defense. She still does not have the ability to put the ball on the court to drive to the basket or create space for her own shot. And defensively, you are always going to be challenged with her. Her role is hitting open 3’s, that is her wrench in the tool box. It’s a situational skill, meaning it can be taken away or denied to her. Then what? She doesn’t even get to the free throw line with that skill set.
 
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Mad,
I was once high on Puckett, but two things I noticed this year, no speed and no jump in her game. So probably a role player, maybe a good role player but l don’t see a difference maker in her, hope I am wrong. I don’t particularly like her demeanor in games this year either, which is weird. She does not show the fire that Stripling shows as an example. She looks unattached.

Miles and Wynn to me are both role players. Too many holes in their games to fix in college to become above average starters. I like Darby also, but she has one tool in her box and it doesn’t work against teams with good defense. She still does not have the ability to put the ball on the court to drive to the basket or create space for her own shot. And defensively, you are always going to be challenged with her. Her role is hitting open 3’s, that is her wrench in the tool box. It’s a situational skill, meaning it can be taken away or denied to her. Then what? She doesn’t even get to the free throw line with that skill set.

I mostly agree with you but have more hope for Puckett and a little more for Wynn. While Puckett will never be a speedster, her biggest problem with speed is that is in her head rather than in the flow of the game this year for the most part. For example, if a pass is coming to her or she sees a possible rebound, she seems to freeze at first to mentally process this fact rather than immediately get her body and mind ready for the appropriate reaction. I do think that is possible that she gets out of her current self-consciousness on the court and this will make a big difference. We have seen the occasional game that this has happened and she is really effective then. We will see!

As for as Wynn, I think she could end up being an effective drive and penetrate guard with more playing time. She will need to be combined with a great shooting guard such as Justine or perhaps the portal guard that we have been dreaming about so she can dish it back out if the lanes get too crowded. I also like her defense potential with more experience.
 
Mad,
I was once high on Puckett, but two things I noticed this year, no speed and no jump in her game. So probably a role player, maybe a good role player but l don’t see a difference maker in her, hope I am wrong. I don’t particularly like her demeanor in games this year either, which is weird. She does not show the fire that Stripling shows as an example. She looks unattached.

Miles and Wynn to me are both role players. Too many holes in their games to fix in college to become above average starters. I like Darby also, but she has one tool in her box and it doesn’t work against teams with good defense. She still does not have the ability to put the ball on the court to drive to the basket or create space for her own shot. And defensively, you are always going to be challenged with her. Her role is hitting open 3’s, that is her wrench in the tool box. It’s a situational skill, meaning it can be taken away or denied to her. Then what? She doesn’t even get to the free throw line with that skill set.

Per Sara, she did not get slower or less jumpy than she was as a freshman. There are lots of really good WCBB that are not particularly quick or jumpy. Sara is strong as an ox and has a really good skill set. Her shot is text book. Hard to figure why her shooting % is not better.

For some, she is not getting into the flow of the game, though she has had a few good games this season.

Is Sara going to be Rickea Jackson? No but she could be a quality contributor and difference maker (as she showed on occassion this season, such as with her game winner 3.)

I am always hesitant to read too much into a player's demeanor. Sara may just have a poker face. I don't recall her being particularly expressive on the court last season but at times, it does look like she gets down on herself when things aren't going her way. She needs a mental reset.
 
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Mad,
I was once high on Puckett, but two things I noticed this year, no speed and no jump in her game. So probably a role player, maybe a good role player but l don’t see a difference maker in her, hope I am wrong. I don’t particularly like her demeanor in games this year either, which is weird. She does not show the fire that Stripling shows as an example. She looks unattached.

Miles and Wynn to me are both role players. Too many holes in their games to fix in college to become above average starters. I like Darby also, but she has one tool in her box and it doesn’t work against teams with good defense. She still does not have the ability to put the ball on the court to drive to the basket or create space for her own shot. And defensively, you are always going to be challenged with her. Her role is hitting open 3’s, that is her wrench in the tool box. It’s a situational skill, meaning it can be taken away or denied to her. Then what? She doesn’t even get to the free throw line with that skill set.
Puckett's game is limited, but she has shown that she can play within herself and focus on what she does best: spot up shooter, posting up smaller defenders and crashing the boards. I don't see her trying to do things that are just not in her wheelhouse., so she's pretty smart about her on-court decisions. She'll never be an All-SEC type player, but she can be a reliable cog on both sides of the ball as long as she has other big-time players around her to carry the scoring load (and attract the opposing team's best defenders) Expecting her to be a go-to scorer or focal point of the offense is just not realistic. She simply doesn't have the tools for that, and the same is true for Darby, who is even more limited in what she can do offensively, and she is much easier to exploit defensively than someone like Sara.

Wynn...not sure what her role on the team will be especially since at present, she will have a bigger role on the team next season in the absence of some solid portal additions. Excellent athlete, but she lacks pretty much all basketball fundamentals (shooting, passing, decision-making, even defense). Miles has a bit more upside and is a solid defensive player, but that's probably not enough to overcome her complete lack of offensive production (both as a scorer and a playmaker).
 
Puckett's game is limited, but she has shown that she can play within herself and focus on what she does best: spot up shooter, posting up smaller defenders and crashing the boards. I don't see her trying to do things that are just not in her wheelhouse., so she's pretty smart about her on-court decisions. She'll never be an All-SEC type player, but she can be a reliable cog on both sides of the ball as long as she has other big-time players around her to carry the scoring load (and attract the opposing team's best defenders) Expecting her to be a go-to scorer or focal point of the offense is just not realistic. She simply doesn't have the tools for that, and the same is true for Darby, who is even more limited in what she can do offensively, and she is much easier to exploit defensively than someone like Sara.

Wynn...not sure what her role on the team will be especially since at present, she will have a bigger role on the team next season in the absence of some solid portal additions. Excellent athlete, but she lacks pretty much all basketball fundamentals (shooting, passing, decision-making, even defense). Miles has a bit more upside and is a solid defensive player, but that's probably not enough to overcome her complete lack of offensive production (both as a scorer and a playmaker).

Agree, which makes Wynn and Miles role players. Sara will be a starter as you say, just how good of an SEC starter remains to be seen, but yes, certainly there is hope with her to be more than just a role player.
 
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In benchmark games/ranked teams. For us to have a chance she needs to be 12+ a game against this level. All but one was a loss as well. Miss St second game she had 10 points.

SC - 2 points
LSU- 6 points
Stanford- 5 points
UConn- 6 points
UCLA- 3 points
VT- 2 points
Colorado- 0 points
Gonzaga - 6 points

Very telling numbers....just no production from her when we play good opponents, and that is a problem. I mean, given her overall skill set
this isn't hugely surprising, but, as Majors suggests, we basically need about 4 threes (or 12 points however they come) from her in games against quality opponents and she's not been able to provide that. Without points from her we basically have Jackson and the erratic Horston and a few points here and there from others. IMO we should be getting the ball more to Hollingshead inside. Powell is much better at getting passes into the point than Walker....
 
Very telling numbers....just no production from her when we play good opponents, and that is a problem. I mean, given her overall skill set
this isn't hugely surprising, but, as Majors suggests, we basically need about 4 threes (or 12 points however they come) from her in games against quality opponents and she's not been able to provide that. Without points from her we basically have Jackson and the erratic Horston and a few points here and there from others. IMO we should be getting the ball more to Hollingshead inside. Powell is much better at getting passes into the point than Walker....

No one ever mentions the points we lose when she is on defense (getting blown by and offensive rebounds). That happens every game. Defense counts too. Not trying to pile on, but….
 
In benchmark games/ranked teams. For us to have a chance she needs to be 12+ a game against this level. All but one was a loss as well. Miss St second game she had 10 points.

SC - 2 points
LSU- 6 points
Stanford- 5 points
UConn- 6 points
UCLA- 3 points
VT- 2 points
Colorado- 0 points
Gonzaga - 6 points

8 losses and Darby is under 10. Ouch that stat line is telling. Someone also said that the team doesn't work to get Tess open and that she does move/dribble drive so she only has one tool in her box. That puts pressure on others to score and do things they're not equipped at. Getting her an early bucket will help her confidence in big games and will take the pressure off her. Much like having a young QB throw a 5 yard pass to settle in.

As for the supporting cast of Puckett, etc they need to be scoring. That play where Stripling scored her 3s could easily utilise Puckett. All they have to do is get her into positions where she can be successful.

The stats don't lie to win Darby needs to be scoring at least 12 points it could help too if the bench scored about 15-20 to help out RJ and JH.
 
8 losses and Darby is under 10. Ouch that stat line is telling. Someone also said that the team doesn't work to get Tess open and that she does move/dribble drive so she only has one tool in her box. That puts pressure on others to score and do things they're not equipped at. Getting her an early bucket will help her confidence in big games and will take the pressure off her. Much like having a young QB throw a 5 yard pass to settle in.

As for the supporting cast of Puckett, etc they need to be scoring. That play where Stripling scored her 3s could easily utilise Puckett. All they have to do is get her into positions where she can be successful.

The stats don't lie to win Darby needs to be scoring at least 12 points it could help too if the bench scored about 15-20 to help out RJ and JH.
Teams put pressure on either JH or RJ to not have big games….they will take their chances that nobody else can fill the void. Walker with 19 at LSU was big for to keep it close.
 
Very telling numbers....just no production from her when we play good opponents, and that is a problem. I mean, given her overall skill set
this isn't hugely surprising, but, as Majors suggests, we basically need about 4 threes (or 12 points however they come) from her in games against quality opponents and she's not been able to provide that. Without points from her we basically have Jackson and the erratic Horston and a few points here and there from others. IMO we should be getting the ball more to Hollingshead inside. Powell is much better at getting passes into the point than Walker....
Numbers don’t lie and in big games she fades away offensively.
 
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Yes, having better players would make for a better team. If Kellie could bring a set of All-American candidates through the portal and could completely upgrade the team at every position, I for one, would support that move (as controversial as that statement might be, I will stand by it!!!)

But with the group of players we have now, yes Darby has her limits and has not produced in the bigger games as one would like. On the flipside, her improvement curve is impressive and she is by far the team's best 3-point shooter. Kellie offensive scheme does not help her cause because the LVs just don't run plays to free-up outside shooters. So, she is going to have improve her off the ball movement but I see evidence that such a change can happen in her remaining two seasons.

Sara "Bucketts" was an all SEC freshman player who seems to have hit the dreaded sophomore slump. Part of the problem has to be that, with line-up changes, her role on the team is not clear and she is over thinking things. I think that is correctable problem (for next season).

Wynn seems like a player with a big upside but she also needs some role clarity and playing time (and overall improvement in her offensive game), all things that can happen next year.

Holllingshead looks like she could become a beast. Her game has all the facets you want in a big but she is not consistent yet but that will come.

And Justine is waiting in the wings.....


Regarding Jusine, I have yet to see any player make significant strides in performance watching others play the game. It makes no difference the game or sex of the player either.
 
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8 losses and Darby is under 10. Ouch that stat line is telling. Someone also said that the team doesn't work to get Tess open and that she does move/dribble drive so she only has one tool in her box. That puts pressure on others to score and do things they're not equipped at. Getting her an early bucket will help her confidence in big games and will take the pressure off her. Much like having a young QB throw a 5 yard pass to settle in.

As for the supporting cast of Puckett, etc they need to be scoring. That play where Stripling scored her 3s could easily utilise Puckett. All they have to do is get her into positions where she can be successful.

The stats don't lie to win Darby needs to be scoring at least 12 points it could help too if the bench scored about 15-20 to help out RJ and JH.
Tess only averages under 8 pts to begin with. Expecting her to surpass that against the better teams on the schedule is asking too much. She also happens to be 3rd leading scorer on the team, and that’s really the bigger problem: she’s not good enough to carry that responsibility against the elite teams, especially if they somehow find a way to shut down Jackson or Horston while not leaving her completely open.

In the absence of an offensive playbook that actually plays to Tess’ strengths and masks her weaknesses they need to look at getting more out of their #1/5 spots before expecting something from Tess that’s just not realistic. And by #5, I really mean Hollingshead.
 

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