Game Thread Lady Vols vs Wichita State

[Chops123]

So, I'm hating because i'm pointing out things your best center in basketball and freshmen players are doing wrong! I don't think so! Especially since you point out the same things I was saying. You probably knew Pat better than I did, but you don't treasure the values she had. My daughter played for Pat and one thing she had to learn early on was to value each possession like it was your last. She didn't let you play through things that should be taught in high school, especially if you're everybodys ALL AMERICAN! I'm all Vol, but some of you need to face reality, This is Big Time Basketball! Get with the program or learn to, by sitting and watching until you do! Go Lady Vols!

Let the church say amen

 

[sccshortstop]

The only major bad coaching move that I saw last night was putting MR at the top of the 3-2. I can't recall ever CHW doing this ... however, it did the job of altering shots on the perimeter... but I clearly remember giving up a LOT of offensive rebounds. I recall Nared and Jackson/Davis being on the low black when this was happening. I would of rather seen her put Davis at the top of the 3-2 and keeping MR on the block.

The announcers said last night that they had just put that 3-2 zone the last couple of days to give the opponent a different look.:machgun:

 

[Chitownvol1129]

She's a senior--not a freshman; she doesn't need minutes. You want her relatively fresh late in the season. She is a big woman--and players her size tend to wear down and are prone to developing physical problems that smaller, lighter players do not get. Her feet and knees and hips are carrying a lot of weight. There is a reason Russell had foot problems when she got to UT, requiring surgery. You don't need her playing all but four minutes against a winless team--not wise.

Russell had bunons...educate yourself on cause and stop guessing! The best "big girls" in basketball play almost year round. In Europe, China, and WNBA all in same year. Women are not fragile little flowers. Such thinking as this used to keep women out of the military, marathons, and long distance swimming. Furthermore, for her size and frame, she is not carrying around a lot of weight

 

[Pat4life]

So, I'm hating because i'm pointing out things your best center in basketball and freshmen players are doing wrong! I don't think so! Especially since you point out the same things I was saying. You probably knew Pat better than I did, but you don't treasure the values she had. My daughter played for Pat and one thing she had to learn early on was to value each possession like it was your last. She didn't let you play through things that should be taught in high school, especially if you're everybodys ALL AMERICAN! I'm all Vol, but some of you need to face reality, This is Big Time Basketball! Get with the program or learn to, by sitting and watching until you do! Go Lady Vols!

Yes, but I my friend is happy her production for the 3rd game of the season. So, there is a difference. But I was saying its like a broken record, we've been hearing about Mercedes ain't tough, going on four years now. we know. we get it. smh...

Can she do more? YES. But right now, maybe she won't become the center we want her to become to the Pros, but I like what I hear about her work ethic, so she's going to get there, and I like when she does go against opposing good post players, she usually balls out.

Its now 2017, and that's the reality.

I back Pat, Roll with Holly.

 

[Coach Jumper]

is one of the reasons we struggle. You have to make threes--and you especially have to make threes if you are facing a zone defense. We only shot 12 threes; these days, that is a fairly low number. Warlick, never far from her 1985 coaching mode, always gripes about taking too many threes and--have you heard this one--not getting the ball inside. Then we try to force it into Russell and commit turnovers. Making threes is how you loosen up a defense--create space for our inside players. If you cannot make threes, the opponent will just pack it in and wait for us to make a bad pass.

Watch the "Evil Genius part II" Geno on the sidelines as every player on his team is not only given a green light, they are encouraged to take them. He knows they're a part of the game and a formidable weapon. ,,, And it is only about numbers if you win or lose.

We took 15 3's in the win over JMU...Hit 8 for 53%
Not a word about too many 3's ..

In the win over Whichytah we took 16 3's....The difference is we only made 5 of them at 31%.

How many is too many 3's?

The Connies shoot 25+ per game....Maybe if we free the shooters to do what they do, they can get comfortable and bust that dam zone

So, I'm hating because i'm pointing out things your best center in basketball and freshmen players are doing wrong! I don't think so! Especially since you point out the same things I was saying. You probably knew Pat better than I did, but you don't treasure the values she had. My daughter played for Pat and one thing she had to learn early on was to value each possession like it was your last. She didn't let you play through things that should be taught in high school, especially if you're everybodys ALL AMERICAN! I'm all Vol, but some of you need to face reality, This is Big Time Basketball! Get with the program or learn to, by sitting and watching until you do! Go Lady Vols!

Now this team defines itself.
Are they going to be legacy athletes?
.....



Or a legacy team?
.....
Same for the staff.

 

[alexvol]

That’s going to change with our guards.... Annie will attack a zone with her ability to penetrate. And you saw Evina start to penetrate some also... against a zone ....penetration causes a reaction by the defense... if they don’t stop you , you take the ball to the goal and draw fouls...if they move to stop you then they left their person they were guarding and the assist is coming!!!! This is why Annie is getting so many assist and foul shots. Different game than pass the ball around until someone has to jack up a three point shot. They will be fun to watch but some growing pains are eminent!

Agree and hope Holly will allow that to happen.Holly'offense has been pass the ball around the horn or stand outside the 3 point line ,pat the ball and stare into the post until the shot clock runs out and then either make a desperation pass into the post with three opponents hanging all over ,in front and behind thus resulting in a turnover ....or throw up a desperation 3 point shot.

 

[JohnStL]

Every year - and I mean every year there is a player who is on the boarder "underperforming, work ethic, takes a possession off, fails to...failure list" Examples: Meighan Simmons or remember those who wanted to bench Cierra Burdick's terrible shooting percentage during November December her junior year.

If I listen to the LV Coach there seems to be a plan to build confidence for the freshmen during these early games. A senior was taken out after two TOs in a recent game and a freshman continued to play in an earlier game and committed 8 TOs plus a few attributed to other teammates that could have been added.

They faced a zone and won versus losing to Penn State in similar circumstances last year.

 

[teacherdean]

I find it difficult to attribute all of Russell's issues to poor coaching. Taking plays off, standing around, and shying away from contact are related to attitude and motivation and are not things that can be readily coached up. Things directly related to coaching, like her footwork and hook shots, have improved over the past 4 years. CHW keeps saying MR has a tremendous BB IQ...if that's true then there's no excuse for standing around and not boxing out. I also recall that Parker and GloJo have praised Lockwood for his coaching of them.

Coaching can make certain demands and if those demands are not met, then they sat their rear on the bench. That is part of coaching. If the Coaches allow players to stand around and go along with bad attitudes that is a recipe for disaster. Parker and Johnson were high octane and very accomplished players in high school and Pat had high demands. I am sure that extended to her coaches.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Agree and hope Holly will allow that to happen.Holly'offense has been pass the ball around the horn or stand outside the 3 point line ,pat the ball and stare into the post until the shot clock runs out and then either make a desperation pass into the post with three opponents hanging all over ,in front and behind thus resulting in a turnover ....or throw up a desperation 3 point shot.

We keep hearing "get it to Russell in the paint yet this will cause the zone to tighten-in and collapse on the post entries....Which in cause, opens the kick-out pass to the outside shooters...Now we have to give the shooters freedom to shoot, permission to fail and consequences for truly bad decisions.

 

[mlindsay]

Nicky A. played out at the front many times under Pat.

That was on the 1-2-2 or 1-2-1-1 full court press, I don’t recall seeing Anosike play at the top in a half court 3-2 zone but I could be wrong

 

[madtownvol]

They faced a zone and won versus losing to Penn State in similar circumstances last year.

Yep, many want to assume that this game is a replay of lat season but there are non-trivial differences such as the one you mentioned.

It is worth noting that Wichita State, particularly in the 1st half, were playing at their upper register. The team clearly came in motivated to put on a good showing in front of Bridgette Gordon.

For example, there was one play where a wichita state player got the ball in the deep corner and Westbrook came flying in at full extension to contest the shot. The WS player shot an arcing rainbow--a make one in ten shot at best-- and it went swish. They hit several other tough shots while the LVs were clanking shots at the rim. And so you though, uh oh, it could be one of THOSE games. However, in the 2nd, the LVs took control with their defensive pressure.

I think if most had to predict a score line where Nared is held to under 10, it would be a close game or a loss and not a double digit win as in this case.

 

[tennparker3]

So, I'm hating because i'm pointing out things your best center in basketball and freshmen players are doing wrong! I don't think so! Especially since you point out the same things I was saying. You probably knew Pat better than I did, but you don't treasure the values she had. My daughter played for Pat and one thing she had to learn early on was to value each possession like it was your last. She didn't let you play through things that should be taught in high school, especially if you're everybodys ALL AMERICAN! I'm all Vol, but some of you need to face reality, This is Big Time Basketball! Get with the program or learn to, by sitting and watching until you do! Go Lady Vols!

Another thing Pat did was reward players who showed her the most in practice. Why nobody ever can ever look at that as the motivation behind who Holly plays is beyond me.

The reality is that Pat started to do many of the same things Holly does now in the later years, especially when freshmen dominated the lineup in 2008/09, in regards to having them play through mistakes.

Holly mentioned in her post game interview she decided to not take timeouts to see how the girls responded. This is something I see a lot of coaches do early on in the season. My dad had a conversation with Coach K from Duke once about this regarding different techniques he uses early on in the season to help younger players grow mentally. Our girls responded well and didn't fold. They worked through their struggles on offense and held strong on defense enough to win.

Holly doesn't need to be exactly like Pat to succeed. She needs to make improvements, we all know this, and time is not on her side if results are not seen by the end of this season or next. But in the little I've seen so far this season I've found far more points of encouragement than not.

And regarding making them sit and watch to learn, who in the hell is going to take their place? Depth isn't a huge asset for us and hasn't been the last two years. Pat's best teams were always known for having incredible depth, which allowed her to bench AA quality players when they weren't playing up to her standards. Holly does not have that luxury.

Simplistic harsh statements with some truth/reality sound great but don't necessarily always provide an honest assessment.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

We keep hearing "get it to Russell in the paint yet this will cause the zone to tighten-in and collapse on the post entries....Which in cause, opens the kick-out pass to the outside shooters...Now we have to give the shooters freedom to shoot, permission to fail and consequences for truly bad decisions.

I agree you have to hit widen open shots out of the zone ... I noticed two things Meme does NOT shoot the three point shot from the wing or the the top of the key that she does from the corners! Watch the difference in her legs and extension/follow through from the shots/places she is seemingly more comfortable then with shots she isn’t. Even when she cuts to get open coming off a pick from the foul line her legs do this thing where she almost brings them up to her body in the oddly quick manner rather than shooting her normal shot. As if that is gonna help her get the shot off quicker. Also Nared didn’t get to her spots where she is usually money for those pull up jumper.... I think she missed a couple shots early and thought let me get to the free throw line which is why she saught getting contact rather than finishing her shots. The thing I loved is that both players contributed with energy and other things rather than hanging their heads in the past off a missed shot. The old saying is true you are going to miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. I think the ball movement for the most part is better for this team with the continual cutting, drive and dish, and trying to just get to the rim. Now when Annie, Evina, and Rennia say hey we are adding a pull up jumper that is going to add another thing to the arsenal.

 

[gule]

all those "zones" look alike to me. Point being, Pat played a "big" out front more than once.

 

[FrozenLVFan]

If we'd made our layups and free throws, we would have won by 42+ points, and everyone would be praising the whole game plan. Put the blame where it belongs...a lousy shooting night. Our go-to senior was 3-16, our 3-pt shooting was 16.7%, and we shot 58.8% from the line. Most of those missed FG's were layups and jump shots with plenty of time to get the shot off, not desperation chucks. It's hard for a team to look good on the floor when we can't finish and hit the broad side of a barn.

 

[Prophet1]

Another thing Pat did was reward players who showed her the most in practice. Why nobody ever can ever look at that as the motivation behind who Holly plays is beyond me.

The reality is that Pat started to do many of the same things Holly does now in the later years, especially when freshmen dominated the lineup in 2008/09, in regards to having them play through mistakes.

Holly mentioned in her post game interview she decided to not take timeouts to see how the girls responded. This is something I see a lot of coaches do early on in the season. My dad had a conversation with Coach K from Duke once about this regarding different techniques he uses early on in the season to help younger players grow mentally. Our girls responded well and didn't fold. They worked through their struggles on offense and held strong on defense enough to win.

Holly doesn't need to be exactly like Pat to succeed. She needs to make improvements, we all know this, and time is not on her side if results are not seen by the end of this season or next. But in the little I've seen so far this season I've found far more points of encouragement than not.

And regarding making them sit and watch to learn, who in the hell is going to take their place? Depth isn't a huge asset for us and hasn't been the last two years. Pat's best teams were always known for having incredible depth, which allowed her to bench AA quality players when they weren't playing up to her standards. Holly does not have that luxury.

Simplistic harsh statements with some truth/reality sound great but don't necessarily always provide an honest assessment.

And let's not forget, Pat had that
blue eye stare she could rely on.

 

[Chops123]

And let's not forget, Pat had that
blue eye stare she could rely on.

Well Holly has that crossed arms I don't know what just happened look

 

[Pat4life]

Holly is NOT Pat! Holly is Holly.

And all that is in the PAST. Things are different. Ya know, I used to have a full head of hair and a flat stomach. The past!

I back Pat and roll with Holly. They are still hating. wow. smh!

 

[Coach Jumper]

Well Holly has that crossed arms I don't know what just happened look

Pat gave a look of certainty when she gave her stare-down. She gave it in interviews. She gave it to people she met. ... If you looked her in the eyes,

she looked back.

Sometimes with intensity.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Holly is NOT Pat! Holly is Holly.

And all that is in the PAST. Things are different. Ya know, I used to have a full head of hair and a flat stomach. The past!

I back Pat and roll with Holly. They are still hating. wow. smh!

Not hating P4,,,keeping our expectations high for the team, the org, the program.

 

[007Racer]

Holly is NOT Pat! Holly is Holly.

And all that is in the PAST. Things are different. Ya know, I used to have a full head of hair and a flat stomach. The past!

I back Pat and roll with Holly. They are still hating. wow. smh!

That is so true! The player in question is still just as lazy as she was as a freshman. Some of the players still make the same mistakes they made as freshmen. Playing through their mistakes is ok, if they learn from them. I just don't think Hollys' personality will allow that to happen. Go Lady Vols!

 

[Chitownvol1129]

That is so true! The player in question is still just as lazy as she was as a freshman. Some of the players still make the same mistakes they made as freshmen. Playing through their mistakes is ok, if they learn from them. I just don't think Hollys' personality will allow that to happen. Go Lady Vols!

Lazy player? Ok please let me watch you use your remote control for 40 minutes and not take a commercial break! Some people have no idea what it takes to play, and play through fatique.

 

[007Racer]

Lazy player? Ok please let me watch you use your remote control for 40 minutes and not take a commercial break! Some people have no idea what it takes to play, and play through fatique.

Playing through fatigue? I played competitive basketball until I was 44 yrs old! I didn't, don't believe in getting tired. That's an excuse for not training hard enough. If you want to be good at something, you had better practice, Practice, PRACTICE!

 

[Putbacks]

A bench has to be developed just like freshmen do. You don't just walk on the floor in February (based on sudden needs only) and just "click." Six players are not enough to endure the grind of a tough schedule and SEC play.

Based on what I saw of Green and KK in 2 contests and an exhibition, they showed more upside than Nunn provided last year. She got PT--enough to be drafted. IMO Green and KK need to be on the floor more.

As far as what someone contended about what you showed in practice, coaches manage that too. These players are on scholarship; they should be expected to compete.

This team has to get more minutes and productivity from its bench.

 

[LadyVol1908]

Playing through fatigue? I played competitive basketball until I was 44 yrs old! I didn't, don't believe in getting tired. That's an excuse for not training hard enough. If you want to be good at something, you had better practice, Practice, PRACTICE!

Lmao, so you don’t believe in fatigue?!