Game Thread: Tennessee Lady Vols (12-6, 5-1) @ Ole Miss (14-5, 4-2) ESPN 3:00PM EST 01-28-2024.

#751
#751
creekdipper said:
Well, might as well say something controversial and say that the Tournament streak isn't all that important to me any more. It's,s a nice conversation piece, but it mostly was emblematic of the longevity and consistency of the program. And we haven,'t been consistently elite for a while now.

I'd gladly trade the streak for a return to the top ranks on a yearly basis. Having both would be ideal, but you can't always get what you want...you know the rest.
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I don't believe Pat would have felt that way,,,and I won't either
this is TN's legacy.
It is one of the only standing singular accomplishment left for the LV program

And if we don't make it, then no WNIT
do that and I am officially against whoever lets that happen
 
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#752
#752
mudcat1973 said:
Tennessee goes six of nine rest of the season.
Tennessee in the NCAA tournament with a record of
Eighteen and Ten
No party for sure on the fire Kellie crowd
Danny White not firing Kellie mid season
I said Tennessee finished top THREE SEC season schedule.
Which will get them in the NCAA tournament
Eighteen and Ten gets Tennessee in.
Six wins vs non South Carolina LSU tigers South CAROLINA
Gets Tennessee to 18 wins 10 losses

SeC will get five to eight teams in the NCAA tournament
Georgie
Missouri
Texas A&M
Vanderbilt
Arkansas
Alabama

Have more power to decide Kellie fate
Than fans who mostly come out after losses.
Kellie would done been fire if her trolls on her had their way..
At least some Kellie got go crowd post all th time.

T
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I am not a fire KJH fan but I am a KJH you need to do better fan. Now if the administration and fan base’s goal is for the Lady Vols to be a middle of the road team, who squeaks into the NCAA tournament and go out early every year, then it seems we can achieve that goal. However, seeing that we lost to Middle Tennessee State, one more loss and we might be on the outside looking in. Sadly, we keep falling further and further down the food chain until we have reached the point that some are satisfied with just making the NCAA tournament? If that is the case we should have kept Holly, at least she could recruit top players, though she might not have been able to develop them. Look at our players who are carrying the team, Jackson, Powell and Spear, all portal players who were developed by other programs. I have to say that Wynn is looking much better, however, the rest of KJH’s high school recruits have shown a little progress but nothing to the power 5 upper echelon players. Some of them have a boat load of potential, but it has not been brought to the surface. If being middle of the road is our goal then we appear to be on the road to success.
 
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#753
#753
I know that it pains the fans who are most supportive of the program to admit it, but we are very poorly-coached at times. There is no way that Top 100 recruits get this far without knowing and acquiring the fundamentals that have been taught since grade school. You don't get to be your state's POY without acquiring a skill set of basics.

Anyone can break down the Ole Miss game and find 12-15 points that we just gave them.

Unguarded players on inbounds. Terrible inbounds passes from us. Getting blown by for wide open, unchallenged layups. Repeatedly giving up second and third chances to a smaller team. Allowing a missed OM shot to fall into the hands of an unguarded OM player on weak side for automatic layup.

And that doesn't take into account the empty possessions on our end due to mental errors...bad passes, traveling, three seconds, etc. Rushed shots at end of possessions.

Also not taking into account the glaring sloppy, purposeless offense, poor execution, questionable/puzzling substitutions, and bad end of game strategy.

Our team had enough talent and quickness to make this a ten-point win rather than a five-pint loss. Ole Miss made a lot of boneheaded plays, too. We didn't need to play perfectly to win, just competently.

This was supposed to be the year that we got over the Final Four hump. I was worried about next year and beyond, but this is starting to resemble the post-Keyen Green skid. And while Kellie has had some bad deck deals with injuries, she has also had three first-round draft picks in a row (with all three together for one year) plus UT's all-time shot blocker. While not downplaying Sweet Sixteens as nothing, you'd think that type of talent might have taken the team a little farther at least one year.

And one can't look at this year's roster and say that it's less talented than some current Top Ten teams with players less-highly ranked but fundamentally solid.

Ultimately, the results are on the coaching staff and the head coach in particular. And if Kellie doesn't get the mistakes cleaned up quickly and close out the season on a very high note, I don't see the portal or future recruiting fixing the problem. And my dream for years was for Kellie to become the Lady Vols coach, and I really thought she'd be the one.
 
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#754
#754
The tournament think we'll work itself out one way or the other.... But test assured we will get the benefit of the doubt. If there is any way to get this team in they will make it happen because of the brand.

That being said if this team doesn't make it in it should be a no brainer that a change is needed. Be respectful ask KJH to step down and give her the opportunity to find a landing spot, help her in any way we can.
 
#755
#755
creekdipper said:
Well, might as well say something controversial and say that the Tournament streak isn't all that important to me any more. It's,s a nice conversation piece, but it mostly was emblematic of the longevity and consistency of the program. And we haven,'t been consistently elite for a while now.

I'd gladly trade the streak for a return to the top ranks on a yearly basis. Having both would be ideal, but you can't always get what you want...you know the rest.
Click to expand...
I’m sure all of us blue hairs/ no hairs get yer reference, but for the yoots, just in case:

 
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#756
#756
creekdipper said:
Defense:

Hedge toward your player's ball side. Don't give up on the play whenever your player gets one step away or past you. Sprint back after turnovers or made baskets. Box out. Box out. Box out.

Keep active and moving even when ball is away from you. Step up when ball comes into free throw area. Protect against the easy inbounds for wide-open five-foot jumper. Challenge the long inbounds overhead lob toward backcourt. Cover the ballhandler up when she picks up her dribble.

Ball handling:

Dribble toward middle rather than sideline against press or trap. Know where your teammates are. Don't pick up your dribble and trap yourself without open teammates as outlets. Don't dribble without a purpose (pass first). Give the ball up and move. Penetrate when the lane clears.
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Such a rousing speech. I don’t know about the team but you got me ready to run through a brick wall! 🧱
 
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#757
#757
Coach Jumper said:
I don't believe Pat would have felt that way,,,and I won't either
this is TN's legacy.
It is one of the only standing singular accomplishment left for the LV program

And if we don't make it, then no WNIT
do that and I am officially against whoever lets that happen
Click to expand...

Question: Would Tennessee have appeared in every tournament if women's basketball had the NCAAs back in the seventies when Pat started coaching (instead of that other tournament whose name I forget)?

Also, would Tennessee have made the tournament during Holly's final years had the field not been expanded to the current number of teams?

The streak is a great talking point, but imo it's so like many records. It's so relative. Like career totals and other records, it depends upon eras, rules, etc.

It is my amateur opinion that Pat would have traded the Streak, particularly during the Ball State debacle, for another Final Four appearance. I doubt that she was especially proud of maintaining The Streak that year. That's just based upon my opinion that her competitiveness exceeded her ego.
 
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#760
#760
creekdipper said:
Question: Would Tennessee have appeared in every tournament if women's basketball had the NCAAs back in the seventies when Pat started coaching (instead of that other tournament whose name I forget)?

Also, would Tennessee have made the tournament during Holly's final years had the field not been expanded to the current number of teams?

The streak is a great talking point, but imo it's so like many records. It's so all relative. Like career totals and other records, it depends upon eras, rules, etc.

It is my amateur opinion that Pat would have traded the Streak, particularly during the Ball State debacle, for another Final Four appearance. I doubt that she was especially proud of maintaining The Streak that year. That's just based upon my opinion that her competitiveness exceeded her ego.
Click to expand...

Hi Creek, I think you in terms of the objective facts 100% correct that there are some asterisks implicitly attached to the streak.

However, symbolic and ritual meanings do matter. Playing in every NCAA tournament is part of the LV's collective identity and missing one would be a significant blow for a program that presumably been on an upward trajectory.

I started this season by saying that Kellie is secure barring the train going off the proverbial rails,. Missing the tourney = a catastrophic derailment, particularly when you have such a high profile player on the roster.

I am still hopeful that they can turn it around but opportunities are getting short.

It is a tough business. With Rickea, they likely would have gone 6-2 in that dreaded 8 game stretch and not been in such dire straits.

Ole Miss does not beat the LVs at home because we would have gotten more of the hack and grab calls the refs let go (Heck, even Cora Hall expressed some disbelief at the mauling RJ was getting).

But, being a high paid coach for a program (that used to be marquee) comes with those challenges.
 
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#761
#761
KB5252 said:
The tournament think we'll work itself out one way or the other.... But test assured we will get the benefit of the doubt. If there is any way to get this team in they will make it happen because of the brand.

That being said if this team doesn't make it in it should be a no brainer that a change is needed. Be respectful ask KJH to step down and give her the opportunity to find a landing spot, help her in any way we can.
Click to expand...

Not sure the brand carry's that much weight anymore. Hope I'm wrong but the longer we move away from Pat's legacy and stay mediocre the brand dims.
 
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#763
#763
creekdipper said:
I know that it pains the fans who are most supportive of the program to admit it, but we are very poorly-coached at times. There is no way that Top 100 recruits get this far without knowing and acquiring the fundamentals that have been taught since grade school. You don't get to be your state's POY without acquiring a skill set of basics.

Anyone can break down the Ole Miss game and find 12-15 points that we just gave them.

Unguarded players on inbounds. Terrible inbounds passes from us. Getting blown by for wide open, unchallenged layups. Repeatedly giving up second and third chances to a smaller team. Allowing a missed OM shot to fall into the hands of an unguarded OM player on weak side for automatic layup.

And that doesn't take into account the empty possessions on our end due to mental errors...bad passes, traveling, three seconds, etc. Rushed shots at end of possessions.

Also not taking into account the glaring sloppy, purposeless offense, poor execution, questionable/puzzling substitutions, and bad end of game strategy.

Our team had enough talent and quickness to make this a ten-point win rather than a five-pint loss. Ole Miss made a lot of boneheaded plays, too. We didn't need to play perfectly to win, just competently.

This was supposed to be the year that we got over the Final Four hump. I was worried about next year and beyond, but this is starting to resemble the post-Keyen Green skid. And while Kellie has had some bad deck deals with injuries, she has also had three first-round draft picks in a row (with all three together for one year) plus UT's all-time shot blocker. While not downplaying Sweet Sixteens as nothing, you'd think that type of talent might have taken the team a little farther at least one year.

And one can't look at this year's roster and say that it's less talented than some current Top Ten teams with players less-highly ranked but fundamentally solid.

Ultimately, the results are on the coaching staff and the head coach in particular. And if Kellie doesn't get the mistakes cleaned up quickly and close out the season on a very high note, I don't see the portal or future recruiting fixing the problem. And my dream for years was for Kellie to be the Lady Vols coach, and I really thought she'd be the one.
Click to expand...
Well put .I will go a step further ....and I have not advocated for this previously .....it is time for a head coaching change and all assistant coaches need to go as well.Hell Coach Jumper could take over today and do a better job.It has been 4 years with plenty of time and latitude to prove her coaching prowess and it has not come to pass.To me the only question is when ...now or at end of season.Now would be okay with me.
 
#764
#764
after the Ole Miss game I think it's time to move on. Regardless of the portal the lack of High school recruiting including 1 or 2 seasons with none or only one recruit is a huge issue to fix. Plus the way they executed the last few minutes last night & many other big moments in games a coaching change is needed!!!! I wanted it to work it didnt.
 
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#765
#765
alexvol said:
Well put .I will go a step further ....and I have not advocated for this previously .....it is time for a head coaching change and all assistant coaches need to go as well.Hell Coach Jumper could take over today and do a better job.It has been 4 years with plenty of time and latitude to prove her coaching prowess and it has not come to pass.To me the only question is when ...now or at end of season.Now would be okay with me.
Click to expand...

It’s actually getting worse instead of better. This should have been our breakout season in terms of returning to the conversation. Remember we started preseason as the #4 team in the country.

Doesn’t mean much, but it does mean people believed in the roster we had coming in. We just didn’t do anything with it. Losing those 4 games when Rickea was out made this season a very long row to hoe. The team also didn’t improve in her absence. Normally that’s an opportunity for others to step up but players like Puckett and Hollingshed did nothing special in Jackson’s absence. Everyone was just trying to get by until Jackson returned.

Striplin was the only player who elevated her game while Jackson was out, but unfortunately she cannot do that in the SEC against quality competition.

If we do retain the Harpers prepare for next season to be a disaster. I do not think we will be able to land another big transfer after the mediocre showing we have put on this season. We are going to have to make it work with what we have returning which means we have no inside game and a very inconsistent perimeter coming back.
 
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#766
#766
VolBall09 said:
It’s actually getting worse instead of better. This should have been our breakout season in terms of returning to the conversation. Remember we started preseason as the #4 team in the country.

Doesn’t mean much, but it does mean people believed in the roster we had coming in. We just didn’t do anything with it. Losing those 4 games when Rickea was out made this season a very long row to hoe. The team also didn’t improve in her absence. Normally that’s an opportunity for others to step up but players like Puckett and Hollingshed did nothing special in Jackson’s absence. Everyone was just trying to get by until Jackson returned.

Striplin was the only player who elevated himpr game while Jackson was out, but unfortunately she cannot do that in the SEC against quality competition.

If we do retain the Harper’s prepare for next season to be a disaster. I do not think we will be able to land another big transfer after the mediocre showing we have put on this season. We are going to have to make it work with what we have returning which means we have no inside game and a very inconsistent perimeter coming back.
Click to expand...
I must say that I am particularly impressed that you spelled both "row" and "hoe" correctly in that metaphor, no small feat in my experience.
 
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#767
#767
Memvol44 said:
She reminds me of Kelly Cain
Click to expand...

Very similar. Just not athletic enough to be a big-time player.


We certainly played well enough offensively to win yesterday--got a career game from Jewel, plus shot 48 percent for the game
and made 8 threes (compared to 2 for Ole Miss), plus 17 assists: those stats should almost always give you a Dub. But our defense was lousy---we
allowed Miss. to shoot 49 percent for the game--and that essentially was the difference. We also had another high turnover game (15), and got nothing offensively out of our bigs in this game. As has been the case too many times to count over the last several years, it was a winnable game that we found a way to lose.
 
#773
#773
glv98 said:
LOL clearly showing the difference in you and me because I just "oh no"ed Yo's post. Feels like she's patting my head. You're a better person.
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I don't think so. Coaches tend to stick together knowing that they are all just a few bad games away from the "hot seat" and it serves her interest to give props to Tennessee. Saying that the LVs are not a tournament caliber team lowers the perceived quality of the win.
 
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#774
#774
So Kellie has lost creekdipper?!? That's like Johnson losing Cronkite on the Vietnam War.

We differ on what percentage of the mess is coaching, what's lack of talent, what's lack of development, what's epic bad luck. But it hardly matters. Like you, I hate like hell if KJH is not ultimately successful. Said when she came I never wanted to see her be the next Holly.

How about this to save KJH: instead of opening the vault for another coach, open it for NIL and buy KJH a damn competitive team. I know schools can't directly move the money but I'll bet they could help make it happen. Donors are the lifeblood of university administrators. We know KJH can't do the more-with-less coaching, but the more-with-more seems alot easier. As we discussed the other day, having great players hides alot of coaching flaws.

If she can't get it done with an elite team, we can move on with a better roster and a healthy NIL.

Can't wait for the incoming on this idea.
 
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