Game Thread: UT v LSU

[glv98]

We're actually at our best when the game is ugly. We should trap and press constantly.

IMO that's exactly the problem. Ugly is all we got. Works against equally sloppy teams but gets schooled by even minimally organized, well-coached teams. No doubt trap and press is the fave 'offense' of CHW as it seeks to avoid actual half court sets at all costs. It's the go-to LV offense of the past that Holly seems viscerally unable to give up. Sadly, it's also exactly what continues to keep us away from elite status.

Also, its exactly what keeps me away from many games. There was a big discussion here recently about whether or not to boycott home games to send a message. To me its simplier than that, I don't enjoy games anymore because they're of a diminished basketball quality I could see for free down at the church gym with the Upward league. Maybe some enjoy roll-on-the floor, high turnover, brick-throwing scrambles but for me its just painful and embarrassing to watch a race to the bottom pass for an LV game.

 

[Coach Jumper]

She is a senior. Why would you want to save her tender ankle? If she can play, play her. It's not like she has a shot at the WNBA after UT.

Ouch! G

 

[glv98]

Just to be brutally honest, we need MeMe back exactly why? Because we need another crappy, streaky-if-we're-lucky 3 pt shooter? I know her rep is as a defensive stopper but I've honestly not seen that either. Argument could be made its better for the younger players to be the 3 brickers just for the experience.

That said, I do hope she gets to play soon just bc she seems a good kid who works hard and is no worse than any of the rest of them on offense and as a senior deserves to finish on the court, not on the bench injured. But she sure ain't gonna fix what ails us.

 

[djtee]

The thing that has worries me about Burrell is that she was a 40 percent three point shooter her senior year in high school and started out decently here first few games. Now with the Holly effect she can't make anything this seems to happen to a lot of players that come in here. Zaay Green was around a thirty percent three point shooter so don't expect as much from her from long range still she is struggling to make very many with Holly. I saw Holly make one good move yesterday she got KK out of the game in the last two minutes as they were going to start fouling her on every possession. She is like a 25 percent free throw shooter you wonder why.

Burrell is being ask to play the four a lot but she can shoot the three and i`m confident she will get it going. We have at the four Davis 6-2 Collins 6-3 and at times C. Green 6-3. But for some reason Holly continue to use Burrell at the four. The real problem is we don`t have a active post player on the back end so we can extend the defense.

 

[djtee]

She is a senior. Why would you want to save her tender ankle? If she can play, play her. It's not like she has a shot at the WNBA after UT.

No one saying she can`t play but you know as i know a high ankle sprain can be a real problem without the proper recovery time.

 

[Volfan2012]

The best five I have seen on the floor at anytime this season are Westbrook, C. Green, Z. Green, Davis at the three and KK. Sometimes Massengill plays very well also but not every game.

 

[djtee]

The best five I have seen on the floor at anytime this season are Westbrook, C. Green, Z. Green, Davis at the three and KK. Sometimes Massengill plays very well also but not every game.

That lineup most of the time the offense stalls. I would Use Burrell she has the length and can score if used correctly.

 

[glv98]

That lineup most of the time the offense stalls. I would Use Burrell she has the length and can score if used correctly.

LOL and how exactly does one tell when the LV offense "stalls". I guess as opposed to "sputter" which is baseline.

 

[djtee]

LOL and how exactly does one tell when the LV offense "stalls". I guess as opposed to "sputter" which is baseline.

Well i will put it like this right now it don`t matter what line up is out there the offense looks awful most of the time.

 

[papatomany]

IMO that's exactly the problem. Ugly is all we got. Works against equally sloppy teams but gets schooled by even minimally organized, well-coached teams. No doubt trap and press is the fave 'offense' of CHW as it seeks to avoid actual half court sets at all costs. It's the go-to LV offense of the past that Holly seems viscerally unable to give up. Sadly, it's also exactly what continues to keep us away from elite status.

Also, its exactly what keeps me away from many games. There was a big discussion here recently about whether or not to boycott home games to send a message. To me its simplier than that, I don't enjoy games anymore because they're of a diminished basketball quality I could see for free down at the church gym with the Upward league. Maybe some enjoy roll-on-the floor, high turnover, brick-throwing scrambles but for me its just painful and embarrassing to watch a race to the bottom pass for an LV game.

I don't agree. Holly needs to REALLY commit to pressing and trapping. So far, she hasn't done that. We get schooled by abandoning what works, which is the ugly we're talking about. Effort and scrapping is ugly, but also leads to a lot of breakouts and layups. It should look like Nolan Richardson's old "Forty Minutes of Hell", but we make a couple of defensive mistakes and panic. Richardson's teams could get beat on back door cuts and runouts, sometimes 4 or 5 times in a row, but it didn't stop them. They kept the pressure on, and eventually wore down the other team. That's what we do at our best. Pressing and trapping are way more effective when it's your team's personality instead of something you occasionally toss in or a last resort.
On a similar theme: John Wooden used to say, "If you're not making mistakes, then you're not doing anything. I'm positive that a doer makes mistakes." He didn't mean "be reckless", but "don't panic when you miss a shot or blow an assignment", and it goes for coaches as well as players.

 

[LasVegasBill23]

I don't think the commitment is there to press and trap.... Holly won't demand that from the players... they play in spurts and she tells them after the game that they emptied the tank and she could not be prouder and that is all she can ask from them....

If you look at film from 20 years ago.... now THAT was effort.... and the players were no better than the ones we have today.....

 

[Coach Jumper]

Just to be brutally honest, we need MeMe back exactly why? Because we need another crappy, streaky-if-we're-lucky 3 pt shooter? I know her rep is as a defensive stopper but I've honestly not seen that either. Argument could be made its better for the younger players to be the 3 brickers just for the experience.

That said, I do hope she gets to play soon just bc she seems a good kid who works hard and is no worse than any of the rest of them on offense and as a senior deserves to finish on the court, not on the bench injured. But she sure ain't gonna fix what ails us.

I am sure she appreciates such an ardent fan

 

[VolBall09]

Just to be brutally honest, we need MeMe back exactly why? Because we need another crappy, streaky-if-we're-lucky 3 pt shooter? I know her rep is as a defensive stopper but I've honestly not seen that either. Argument could be made its better for the younger players to be the 3 brickers just for the experience.

That said, I do hope she gets to play soon just bc she seems a good kid who works hard and is no worse than any of the rest of them on offense and as a senior deserves to finish on the court, not on the bench injured. But she sure ain't gonna fix what ails us.

I have to agree, Meme can be a defensive stopper, but she allows what is happening on the offensive end with her shot to affect her defensive intensity. I think she cares a TON and really wants to do well, but she gets too far in her head if her first few shots don't drop. I do hope that sitting a little bit with this injury allows her to get her mind right again, she was in such a funk it was almost a blessing she rolled her ankle. She needs to see the game a little slower and re-evaluate her role.

Meme is not cut out to be our leading scorer, she just isn't. If she would commit 100% to being a defensive stopper on their best guard and forget about whether she is making shots this team would be much better. I almost guarantee if she'll approach it like that she'll be a double digit scorer off of layups and free throws alone, any 3s would be bonus. We have other players that are much more capable of being a consistent scorer, Meme can not be counted on for consistent point production.

 

[Orange_Mamba]

We can't press that's why we've seen less of it. The results are the same we give up an open three or we let a player dribble up the court for an easy layup. We tried to trap last game that didn't work either. LSU players drove right around the trapping guards leaving them on her hip as she drove to the basket for an easy assist or an easy layup. That's how Pointer got her buckets.

 

[VolBall09]

We can't press that's why we've seen less of it. The results are the same we give up an open three or we let a player dribble up the court for an easy layup. We tried to trap last game that didn't work either. LSU players drove right around the trapping guards leaving them on her hip as she drove to the basket for an easy assist or an easy layup. That's how Pointer got her buckets.

You are 100% correct. Arkansas (among other teams) was killing us with the backside 3 out of their press break. It has been an issue all season and no change has been made. If you're going to press you have to be 100% committed to bust you A** to get back if they break it with a long pass.

I remember Arkansas clearly because we got a couple TOs off the press early, then Mike Neighbors called a timeout. The next possession he had Tolfree/Monk spot up for the backside 3 and they burned us with 3 or 4 times, maybe more, and we never adapted.


I can also think of at least 5 or 6 times this season where the post on the back end allowed an opposing player to get behind them, player was able to catch and score and easy layup with no defense. As a former post player on a team that pressed a lot, that was the #1 rule, "make sure nobody is behind you." You're the last line of defense, your one job is to protect the basket from exactly that, too many mental lapses for us in the press.

 

[djtee]

Just to be brutally honest, we need MeMe back exactly why? Because we need another crappy, streaky-if-we're-lucky 3 pt shooter? I know her rep is as a defensive stopper but I've honestly not seen that either. Argument could be made its better for the younger players to be the 3 brickers just for the experience.

That said, I do hope she gets to play soon just bc she seems a good kid who works hard and is no worse than any of the rest of them on offense and as a senior deserves to finish on the court, not on the bench injured. But she sure ain't gonna fix what ails us.

I`m with you i hate to see any player go down injured. Holly missed the writing on the wall on this one, When we opened up against all the cupcakes and was pushed by the likes of UAB,Stetson, Belmont . That`s when Holly should have sent a message to Davis,Westbrook,Meme, KK whoever started. But no Holly rewarded these players and now it`s has come back to bite her. UConn Geno did not pull a ll five of his starters because they was beating down the team they played. He pulled all five due to there poor play. and the message was received loud and clear.

 

[Volfan2012]

That lineup most of the time the offense stalls. I would Use Burrell she has the length and can score if used correctly.

It definitely provides offensive and defensive rebounding and I don't see where Burrell adds anything as a starter she was like 0 for 6 yesterday.

 

[Coach Jumper]

I have to agree, Meme can be a defensive stopper, but she allows what is happening on the offensive end with her shot to affect her defensive intensity. I think she cares a TON and really wants to do well, but she gets too far in her head if her first few shots don't drop. I do hope that sitting a little bit with this injury allows her to get her mind right again, she was in such a funk it was almost a blessing she rolled her ankle. She needs to see the game a little slower and re-evaluate her role.

Meme is not cut out to be our leading scorer, she just isn't. If she would commit 100% to being a defensive stopper on their best guard and forget about whether she is making shots this team would be much better. I almost guarantee if she'll approach it like that she'll be a double digit scorer off of layups and free throws alone, any 3s would be bonus. We have other players that are much more capable of being a consistent scorer, Meme can not be counted on for consistent point production.

She is working to become a complete player, not simply a role player.
This is expected out of a leader,
to expand and grow their game.

Meme was flying and then she hit the wall that everyone ultimately hits.
It is how she comes back from these hits, that will dictate her future.

She was playing a heckuva game.
Dotting all of the stat-line.
All of it.
We had the triangle of scorers that every competitive team has to have.
She cannot come back as she recently left it.
She has to come back from this injury like she played in Nov-Dec.
That is the key

 

[djtee]

It definitely provides offensive and defensive rebounding and I don't see where Burrell adds anything as a starter she was like 0 for 6 yesterday.

Well she did have a tough at the bank yesterday, But let`s remember she get`s far less mins then some of the so call super stars on this team. So what have the other 4 other then Zaay have done to help this team win ?

 

[Coach Jumper]

I`m with you i hate to see any player go down injured. Holly missed the writing on the wall on this one, When we opened up against all the cupcakes and was pushed by the likes of UAB,Stetson, Belmont . That`s when Holly should have sent a message to Davis,Westbrook,Meme, KK whoever started. But no Holly rewarded these players and now it`s has come back to bite her. UConn Geno did not pull a ll five of his starters because they was beating down the team they played. He pulled all five due to there poor play. and the message was received loud and clear.

When you take your foot off of the gas pedal, you let someone who has the gas mashed, catch up.
The good drivers pit when they need to not when they have to

 

[LA Vol]

Should be able to beat UF and Vandy without Meme. That'll give her another week of recovery time.

It's going to have to be a team effort to make the NCAAT. One or two players can't carry the team. They're going to have to work together, play smart and want it.

 

[37620VOL]

Maybe this team needs to adopt "ugly" as a mantra. Play old big east / bad boys Pistons style basketball. Tough, mean, nasty basketball may be the only path to a winning team.

 

[NoBackBoard]

I don't agree. Holly needs to REALLY commit to pressing and trapping. So far, she hasn't done that. We get schooled by abandoning what works, which is the ugly we're talking about. Effort and scrapping is ugly, but also leads to a lot of breakouts and layups. It should look like Nolan Richardson's old "Forty Minutes of Hell", but we make a couple of defensive mistakes and panic. Richardson's teams could get beat on back door cuts and runouts, sometimes 4 or 5 times in a row, but it didn't stop them. They kept the pressure on, and eventually wore down the other team. That's what we do at our best. Pressing and trapping are way more effective when it's your team's personality instead of something you occasionally toss in or a last resort.
On a similar theme: John Wooden used to say, "If you're not making mistakes, then you're not doing anything. I'm positive that a doer makes mistakes." He didn't mean "be reckless", but "don't panic when you miss a shot or blow an assignment", and it goes for coaches as well as players.

Has anyone listened to The Jump Around podcast by Blake Dudonis? He interviews SEC coaches and I really enjoyed the interview with Auburn’s head coach Terri Williams-Flournoy. She has a great personality and discussed her press and trap defensive strategy. I know she hasn’t had much success at Auburn, but I would love her to take Holly’s spot in Knoxville. I believe she could bring the energy, toughness and FUN back to the Lady Vols.

P.S. Listen to Holly Warlick’s interview. It’s disheartening how other coaches openly discuss their shortcomings and failures, but Holly doesn’t. It’s because Holly isn’t a leader.

 

[ksl415]

Has anyone listened to The Jump Around podcast by Blake Dudonis? He interviews SEC coaches and I really enjoyed the interview with Auburn’s head coach Terri Williams-Flournoy. She has a great personality and discussed her press and trap defensive strategy. I know she hasn’t had much success at Auburn, but I would love her to take Holly’s spot in Knoxville. I believe she could bring the energy, toughness and FUN back to the Lady Vols.

P.S. Listen to Holly Warlick’s interview. It’s disheartening how other coaches openly discuss their shortcomings and failures, but Holly doesn’t. It’s because Holly isn’t a leader.

Thanks for the plug. I have been on my Spotify and checking some of the women’s basketball podcasts. I’ll have to check this out.

 

[Volfan2012]

I am hoping we stick with the big lineup both KK and Green playing a lot of minutes at the same time. Were not going to beat anybody in the SEC down court very often most of the team have smaller quicker guards that we do. The presence of both of them inside gives Davis a lot more freedom to roam get open and make plays. Were a terrible shooting team and when that is true you get as many rebounders in the game that you can as the offensive boards become totally important to success.
The LSU game results: KK, C. Green and Davis 17 of 33 rest of the team 10 of 30. Rebounds KK Green and Davis 25, rest of the team 9 rebounds. The freshmen 8 of 27 from the field 29 percent.