Gas prices dropping

#51
#51
TennTradition said:
I think that your micro/macro explanation makes a lot of sense. I think that more of my problem is with the journalists who stated that "because of a less intense hurricane season than expected..." than it is with the market. The market do what the market do, baby :). I hate the over-simplified descriptions we typically get.
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It's a best available info scenario.

Here's an interesting explanation of how markets set prices with a good baseball example.

How Markets Use Information To Set Prices
 
#52
#52
Add in the global worries on the stock markets. Oil industries are nervous that this spell could influence industries dependent on oil and oil based products. If those industries cut back on their products it will influence oil prices as well.
 
#53
#53
The current forecast track has Hurricane Dean (now a Category 2 storm) heading through the gulf of mexico....:ermm:

oh well...still way too early yet to have a lot of confidence in the prediction (or should I say the time for it to get to the gulf is too long to have an accurate prediction of whether or not it will go through it).
 
#54
#54
Gas at the corner c-store jumped yesterday from $2.57 to $2.69. Doing my bammer math gas was $1.46 when the friend of the Saudi's took office 6 years ago. Today it's $2.67 per gallon. That is an increase of 57% which is well above the inflation rate over that period.
 
#55
#55
Milk has gotten a lot more expensive too. Is that because of W's links to the dairy industry?
 
#56
#56
Skoal has gone up as well. There is a special going on now at all BP gas stations 2 cans for like 6.50. What a steal :good!:
 
#58
#58
BHAMVOLFAN said:
Gas at the corner c-store jumped yesterday from $2.57 to $2.69. Doing my bammer math gas was $1.46 when the friend of the Saudi's took office 6 years ago. Today it's $2.67 per gallon. That is an increase of 57% which is well above the inflation rate over that period.
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Isn't that an 82.9% increase?

And don't prices of milk, Skoal, etc, increase BECAUSE gas prices increased?
 
#61
#61
VolinArizona said:
And don't prices of milk, Skoal, etc, increase BECAUSE gas prices increased?
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Yes/no - there may be changes in transportation/distribution or production costs but I would imagine the rise in the prices of these items more attributable to other factors than gas prices.

I would bet that the "gas" portion of the costs associated with these products is in the single digits (percentage-wise).
 
#62
#62
Dairy price increases have been attributed to the price of feed from anything I've seen in the press. It seems the ethanol issue has depleted feed for cattle causing effects on any products coming from cattle.
 
#65
#65
CSpindizzy said:
Dairy price increases have been attributed to the price of feed from anything I've seen in the press. It seems the ethanol issue has depleted feed for cattle causing effects on any products coming from cattle.
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I was thinking the same thing but wasn't sure if corn feed stocks were used as much with dairy cows (compared to beef cows).
 
#66
#66
Look dude, I've lived in allerbammer for over 30 years so give me a break on the math thingy. Geez, after 30 years I'm glad to be able to add 1+1=3.


VolinArizona said:
Isn't that an 82.9% increase?

And don't prices of milk, Skoal, etc, increase BECAUSE gas prices increased?
Click to expand...
 
#69
#69
CSpindizzy said:
Dairy price increases have been attributed to the price of feed from anything I've seen in the press. It seems the ethanol issue has depleted feed for cattle causing effects on any products coming from cattle.
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bingo. corn and corn syrup is up significantly because of this ethanol stuff. That is why food across the board is getting more expensive. This ethanol thing is getting ridiculous. It actually creates more smog than gas, is more expensive, and you get fewer miles per gallon than gas. All it is is a farmer payoff.
 
#70
#70
volinbham said:
I was thinking the same thing but wasn't sure if corn feed stocks were used as much with dairy cows (compared to beef cows).
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well if corn subsitutes get more popular because corn is expensive it stands to reason that those would go up in price too. My $.02.
 
#71
#71
droski said:
bingo. corn and corn syrup is up significantly because of this ethanol stuff. That is why food across the board is getting more expensive. This ethanol thing is getting ridiculous. It actually creates more smog than gas, is more expensive, and you get fewer miles per gallon than gas. All it is is a farmer payoff.
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I don't think that you are exactly right on your mpg comment. I think that the energy content per gallon is less, but you also get an octane boost from ethanol that pretty much makes gas and ethanol volume equivalents as far as effective energy content goes.

I wouldn't say that the ethanol thing is getting ridiculous, but I certainly agree that corn ethanol is getting (edit: has been) ridiculous. Also, I didn't realize that there was an increased smog problem with ethanol....incomplete combustion??
 
#72
#72
TennTradition said:
I don't think that you are exactly right on your mpg comment. I think that the energy content per gallon is less, but you also get an octane boost from ethanol that pretty much makes gas and ethanol volume equivalents as far as effective energy content goes.

I wouldn't say that the ethanol thing is getting ridiculous, but I certainly agree that corn ethanol is getting (edit: has been) ridiculous. Also, I didn't realize that there was an increased smog problem with ethanol....incomplete combustion??
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the study I saw said that ethanol was 20% less fuel efficient that gas. agreed, if we had lots of sugar, like brazil, ethanol would be a good idea. Ethanol from corn isn't nearly as efficient and cost effective. I'm not sure what the smog issue is. Let me see if I can find the study. . .

found this opinion piece on the la times, interesting:
Why ethanol backfires - Los Angeles Times

President Bush has set a target of replacing 15% of domestic gasoline use with biofuels (ethanol and biodiesel) over the next 10 years, which would require almost a fivefold increase in mandatory biofuel use, to about 35 billion gallons. With current technology, almost all of this biofuel would have to come from corn because there is no feasible alternative. However, achieving the 15% goal would require the entire current U.S. corn crop, which represents a whopping 40% of the world's corn supply. This would do more than create mere market distortions; the irresistible pressure to divert corn from food to fuel would create unprecedented turmoil.

Thus, it is no surprise that the price of corn has doubled in the last year — from $2 to $4 a bushel. We are already seeing upward pressure on food prices as the demand for ethanol boosts the demand for corn. Until the recent ethanol boom, more than 60% of the annual U.S. corn harvest was fed domestically to cattle, hogs and chickens or used in food or beverages. Thousands of food items contain corn or corn byproducts. In Mexico, where corn is a staple food, the price of tortillas has skyrocketed because U.S. corn has been diverted to ethanol production.

Although corn is a renewable resource, it has a far lower yield relative to the energy used to produce it than either biodiesel (such as soybean oil) or ethanol from other plants. Moreover, ethanol yields about 30% less energy per gallon than gasoline, so mileage drops off significantly.

Ethanol: A Tragedy in 3 Acts

This says that because of ethanol's "higher volitility" it could produce more smog.

Ethanol may cause more smog, deaths - Environment - MSNBC.com
 
#73
#73
I went to a "biofuels" website that had an FAQ

One of their claims was that exhaust would smell like popcorn! :w00t:
 
#74
#74
It sounds like there is a problem with incomplete combustion releasing hydrocarbons and volatile organic compounds that are part of the smog chain. This is a problem with gasoline too, but it sounds like it is a worse problem with ethanol. While this is a problem with ethanol, the bigger problem with corn ethanol is the energy balance. You only offset 1/3 gallon of oil for every gallon of ethanol you use in an automobile, at best. That is not good enough. The transportation sector accounts for only about 1/3 of CO2 emissions from fossil fuel sources. Switching every transportation vehicle from gasoline to ethanol would only reduce the CO2 emissions by about 10%. While that isn't tiny, it still isn't enough - and at great cost. Celluosic enthanol like switchgrass would make this energy balance look a lot better.
 
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