gas prices.

#26
#26
the weak dollar isn't helping, but I keep hearing that having cheap exports is better than increased buying power
 
#27
#27
IPorange said:
Again, how do you regulate prices or "break them" when they are foreign entities?
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Im an idiot when it comes to corporate law but I'm pretty sure exxon and mobil had to get federal approval to merge. I think that BP had to do the same when they merged with whomever. If the government had the power to put them together they can put them apart. Countries regulate foreign corporations all the time. Look at Microsoft and the EU with anti-trust issues.
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#29
#29
tri_vol said:
Im an idiot when it comes to corporate law but I'm pretty sure exxon and mobil had to get federal approval to merge. I think that BP had to do the same when they merged with whomever. If the government had the power to put them together they can put them apart. Countries regulate foreign corporations all the time. Look at Microsoft and the EU with anti-trust issues.
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and it's your opinion that the oil companies control the price of oil?
 
#30
#30
droski said:
and it's your opinion that the oil companies control the price of oil?
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I know they dont control the price of oil. Oil prices today are set today more by futures market trading than actual supply and demand.

It was my impression this thread was about the price of gas. That is something entirely different. Gas companies use the price of oil as an easy explanation to raise prices as if the two were exponentially linked but that is simply not true. If that was true gas prices would rise and fall at the same rate as a barrel of oil. Gas companies want to maximize profits. If they thought they could charge $6 per gallon without Congress pitching a fit, they would. That is their right but there is not enough competition to keep prices low.
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#31
#31
then i suggest you put your effort towards the refinery companies. interestingly multiple refineries almost went bankrupt the last time gas was this price. but hey they must be screwing us right?
 
#32
#32
refiner also are forced to produce dozens of regional blends, which drives up the cost. One of the ways the spike in prices was mitigated after Katrina was Bush ordering the EPA to suspend the regional blend mandate.
 
#33
#33
droski said:
then i suggest you put your effort towards the refinery companies. interestingly multiple refineries almost went bankrupt the last time gas was this price. but hey they must be screwing us right?
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I agree this is an issue too along with having to produce regional and seasonal blends. However its also hard to ignore quarterly profits of 3-4 billion dollars. Not exactly like they are going broke. I believe companies should make as much money as they can but the lack of competition affects gas prices to the detriment of the consumer.
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#34
#34
tri_vol said:
I agree this is an issue too along with having to produce regional and seasonal blends. However its also hard to ignore quarterly profits of 3-4 billion dollars. Not exactly like they are going broke. I believe companies should make as much money as they can but the lack of competition affects gas prices to the detriment of the consumer.
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what is their profit %?

and how does it hurt the consumer? They have the ability not to buy it
 
#35
#35
utvolpj said:
what is their profit %?

and how does it hurt the consumer? They have the ability not to buy it
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That is a faulty measuring stick. Profit margins change based on volume. The 7% margin is a clever pr spin. If an oil company could make 30 billion per quarter on a 7%, would that still be okay?

If this country had alternatives forms of mass transit then the consumer would have options and not affected. How is a person living in a rural america supposed to get to work and the store if they dont drive?
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#36
#36
GP% is just pr spin? What?

amazing that no one worked or went to a store before cars were in every driveway.
 
#37
#37
utvolpj said:
GP% is just pr spin? What?

amazing that no one worked or went to a store before cars were in every driveway.
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Its easy say our gp% is only 7% when you're netting $12 billion per year. How many other Fortune 500 companies reaping that type of windfall? Gotta be that the gas companies are just smarter than everyone else to barely break even on a few billion dollars. Come on man you gotta do better than that. You really think that gas companies are completely absolved of all blame?

Are you really suggesting that people will stop driving and society is going to revert back to the 1950s? That's funny.
 
#38
#38
tri_vol said:
Its easy say our gp% is only 7% when you're netting $12 billion per year. How many other Fortune 500 companies reaping that type of windfall? Gotta be that the gas companies are just smarter than everyone else to barely break even on a few billion dollars. Come on man you gotta do better than that. You really think that gas companies are completely absolved of all blame?

Are you really suggesting that people will stop driving and society is going to revert back to the 1950s? That's funny.
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They have an addicted market. So what? Don't be a junkie.
 
#39
#39
utvolpj said:
then you might want to rethink your position :p
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Haha, what do you think my position is? There is a difference between making an educated assumption as to how the government will operate in the future, and how I would want them to operate.
 
#40
#40
tri_vol said:
Its easy say our gp% is only 7% when you're netting $12 billion per year. How many other Fortune 500 companies reaping that type of windfall? Gotta be that the gas companies are just smarter than everyone else to barely break even on a few billion dollars. Come on man you gotta do better than that. You really think that gas companies are completely absolved of all blame?

Are you really suggesting that people will stop driving and society is going to revert back to the 1950s? That's funny.
Click to expand...

the more you sell the more money you make so the numbers are bigger. What is not affected like that is the profit % for what you sell. Stop staring at all the zeros and figure out what they mean. I would also bet you're using at least 3 things right now where the company made a higher profit % than the gas companies do when you fill up

and yes, if someone is so hurt by gas prices that they can't drive then it's probably in their best interest to find another means of transportation.

IPorange said:
Haha, what do you think my position is? There is a difference between making an educated assumption as to how the government will operate in the future, and how I would want them to operate.
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no I meant agreeing with me can be bad for your intelligence (was kidding around)
 
#42
#42
utvolpj said:
the more you sell the more money you make so the numbers are bigger. What is not affected like that is the profit % for what you sell. Stop staring at all the zeros and figure out what they mean. I would also bet you're using at least 3 things right now where the company made a higher profit % than the gas companies do when you fill up

and yes, if someone is so hurt by gas prices that they can't drive then it's probably in their best interest to find another means of transportation.



no I meant agreeing with me can be bad for your intelligence (was kidding around)
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I understand what the numbers mean. Who says though that gas companies have to make 7%?

What if there is no other form of transportation. What is your solution for those people?
 
#43
#43
tri_vol said:
I agree this is an issue too along with having to produce regional and seasonal blends. However its also hard to ignore quarterly profits of 3-4 billion dollars. Not exactly like they are going broke. I believe companies should make as much money as they can but the lack of competition affects gas prices to the detriment of the consumer.
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link to a refiner making 3-4 billion? the two independent refiners in this country are tesoro and valero and both are losing millions a quarter.
 
#44
#44
tri_vol said:
I understand what the numbers mean. Who says though that gas companies have to make 7%?
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Not really sure you do. Who says they can't? Is there % higher than other manuf companies? Is the supplying of gas really their most profitable sector? Could it be they make a lot of money off other stuff? These companies take huge gambles in finding the stuff so why shouldn't they make money?

tri_vol said:
What if there is no other form of transportation. What is your solution for those people?
Click to expand...

there's always a way if you try hard enough. If your gas bill is causing your net income to be in the neg then you need to evaluate some things
 
#45
#45
tri_vol said:
I understand what the numbers mean. Who says though that gas companies have to make 7%?

What if there is no other form of transportation. What is your solution for those people?
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Are you saying you are against capitalism? They're already somewhat regulated. The only thing left is to privatize them. That's working out swell in Venezuela.
 
#46
#46
IPorange said:
Are you saying you are against capitalism? They're already somewhat regulated. The only thing left is to nationalize them. That's working out swell in Venezuela.
Click to expand...

fyp, I think. Venezuela is certainly not moving toward a freer market
 
#47
#47
droski said:
link to a refiner making 3-4 billion? the two independent refiners in this country are tesoro and valero and both are losing millions a quarter.
Click to expand...

Exxon Mobil made over 7 billion in the 3rd quarter up from 4 billion 3rd quarter last year. Chevron made 3 billion up from 1.5 billion last year in the 3rd quarter. Increased profits are linked to higher gas prices and streamlined refining operations. That is a perfect scenario for a business but not for the consumer. There is no incentive for gas companies to lower gas prices. They will continue to get more efficient and yet raise prices until something outside of the industry forces a change.
 
#48
#48
tri_vol said:
Exxon Mobil made over 7 billion in the 3rd quarter up from 4 billion 3rd quarter last year. Chevron made 3 billion up from 1.5 billion last year in the 3rd quarter. Increased profits are linked to higher gas prices and streamlined refining operations. That is a perfect scenario for a business but not for the consumer. There is no incentive for gas companies to lower gas prices. They will continue to get more efficient and yet raise prices until something outside of the industry forces a change.
Click to expand...

i take it you haven't looked at their 10-ks. They are losing money on the refining operations. They are making the money through drilling. that is why exxon and others ahve been selling their refining operations. oxy as an example doesn't even have any.
 
#49
#49
utvolpj said:
Not really sure you do. Who says they can't? Is there % higher than other manuf companies? Is the supplying of gas really their most profitable sector? Could it be they make a lot of money off other stuff? These companies take huge gambles in finding the stuff so why shouldn't they make money?



there's always a way if you try hard enough. If your gas bill is causing your net income to be in the neg then you need to evaluate some things
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I never said they couldn't make a higher %. In my industry manufactures aim for 20-25%. I believe a company should make as much money as possible for its owners and shareholders. That is my goal for my company. The difference is people can choose not to buy my product or buy it from a variety of competitors. This true of almost every other product except gas and oil.

You can dream all day of people choosing not to drive but the facts are that our society and economy are built on people driving. Could life go on if people stopped driving? Yes. But the economy would be wrecked unless there was some type of massive shift in social/economic structure. That type of shift does not happen quickly.
 
#50
#50
the oil industry's margins are below 10%. maybe your industry needs to lower it's prices.
 
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