Gas tax problem?

#26
#26
IPorange said:
Yes, the government is taxing per a gallon, so the more gas per a gallon costs the less per dollar of consumption they are recieving.

But in actual taxes collected per fill up, that hasn't changed. People are using more gas in this country all the time. Studies have shown that despite the carpool lanes, buying up of hybrids, etc, people are still using more gas collectively than the year before, and the year before that. Look at the cars on the road. The majority are still big SUVS and personal trucks, loaded with only one person. We just aren't being efficient, on top of it all.
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True...but if they get the same amount of tax from my $70 fill up that they used to get from my $30 fill up. Well, that is $40 less dollars I have to spend on other taxable goods. So I would think it hurts down the line.
 
#29
#29
droski said:
the market doesn't believe what opec says anymore. this spike in prices is almost soley due to speculation in the futures market and particially the war in iraq. as i said earlier if opec could still control prices they would surely have made oil $100 a barrel 20 years ago.
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Good for you droski. I didnt know you folks from the land of fruits and nuts knew this kind of stuff.

Speculators and especially those new to the commodity world have a MAJOR impact on domestic price. Both with Oil and other commodities. Right now with the stupid Ethanol mandate corn is doing the same type of thing as oil.
 
#30
#30
i may be from the lands of fruits and nuts, but i'm also a money manager who is a CFA. :)
 
#32
#32
VolBeef88 said:
Good for you droski. I didnt know you folks from the land of fruits and nuts knew this kind of stuff.

Speculators and especially those new to the commodity world have a MAJOR impact on domestic price. Both with Oil and other commodities. Right now with the stupid Ethanol mandate corn is doing the same type of thing as oil.
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Congress has really got to get their act together on this one...

I have to think that the time will come pretty soon when more and more doors are being beaten down in Congress ... and the scientific community has an important role to play here.
 
#33
#33
yes ethanol is a huge huge problem. 3 years ago there was ample evidence that ethanol was a fraud yet bush and congress went ahead. all it is a payoff to the farmers. ridiculous.
 
#34
#34
MontereyVol said:
I wonder how long the government is going to let the ethanol mandate run?
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Hopefully they will shut it down. A year ago you couldnt get a congressman to even talk to you about it. Now due to rise in food prices (imagine that) there is talk of making changes. Imagine that, the Gov getting involved and mandating that the citizenry have to use ethanol and the iput for said product gets more expensive of which that same input item is also used in food production. Amazing how that works! :)
 
#35
#35
droski said:
yes ethanol is a huge huge problem. 3 years ago there was ample evidence that ethanol was a fraud yet bush and congress went ahead. all it is a payoff to the farmers. ridiculous.
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Certain farmers and most especially from Iowa where both Senators Grassly (R) and Harkin (D) have pushed for it.
 
#36
#36
droski said:
yes ethanol is a huge huge problem. 3 years ago there was ample evidence that ethanol was a fraud yet bush and congress went ahead. all it is a payoff to the farmers. ridiculous.
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Just for the record (I think this is what you meant, but just wanted to get it out there)....corn ethanol is pretty much a fraud...other forms of ethanol do have potential. They are certainly options from an energy return on energy investment standpoint...although the land use/climate change aspects are a concern.
 
#38
#38
Shockingly Grassley sits on the Budget, Finance and Goverment oversight committees. And Harkin is Chair of the Senate Agriculture Committee and Iowa is the Largest Corn producing state in the natio. I wonder how that happened...:whistling:
 
#39
#39
TennTradition said:
Just for the record (I think this is what you meant, but just wanted to get it out there)....corn ethanol is pretty much a fraud...other forms of ethanol do have potential. They are certainly options from an energy return on energy investment standpoint...although the land use/climate change aspects are a concern.
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sugar cane is the only form shown to really work and we can't grow sugar cane efficently. people also don't realize that ethanol is far more corrosive, less efficent per gallon, and actually is a worse polluter (smog especially) than oil.
 
#40
#40
TennTradition said:
Just for the record (I think this is what you meant, but just wanted to get it out there)....corn ethanol is pretty much a fraud...other forms of ethanol do have potential. They are certainly options from an energy return on energy investment standpoint...although the land use/climate change aspects are a concern.
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The technology is not there yet for cellulosic Ethanol. It costs more to produce it than you get in return. The cheapest and most cost effective is made from Sugar Cane. The Sugar boys will never let that happen.
 
#41
#41
droski said:
sugar cane is the only form shown to really work and we can't grow sugar cane efficently. people also don't realize that ethanol is far more corrosive, less efficent per gallon, and actually is a worse polluter (smog especially) than oil.
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Huge myth my West Coast friend. Huge myth.
 
#42
#42
I've read farmers actually prefer corn over wheat. Wheat seems to have a high intolerance to disease and the market for it fluctuates so wildly that it is a bad investment for them.

Our open market is allowing foreign governments to come in and buy the wheat we produce which is making prices for it jump, but big research companies aren't putting any money into wheat research anymore and concentrating on corn. this shows a problem for long term future growth of wheat
 
#43
#43
droski said:
sugar cane is the only form shown to really work and we can't grow sugar cane efficently. people also don't realize that ethanol is far more corrosive, less efficent per gallon, and actually is a worse polluter (smog especially) than oil.
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It is corrosive and cannot be piped and must be either trucked or sent via rail or barge. It is less efficient than gas for mileage.



 
#45
#45
droski said:
sugar cane is the only form shown to really work and we can't grow sugar cane efficently. people also don't realize that ethanol is far more corrosive, less efficent per gallon, and actually is a worse polluter (smog especially) than oil.
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Global Warming will fix that! :)
 
#46
#46
droski said:
sugar cane is the only form shown to really work and we can't grow sugar cane efficently. people also don't realize that ethanol is far more corrosive, less efficent per gallon, and actually is a worse polluter (smog especially) than oil.
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How familiar are you with DMF? It seems to be pretty interesting. Dumesic and others up at Wisconsin are doing some good work in this area...

As for ethanol...I'm not overly familiar with the corrosive nature of ethanol as a fuel, but the other two I do know some things about. I would say that it is actually more "efficient" per gallon than gasoline - but it has less energy content per gallon. Ethanol works as an octane booster, which is the only reason that it can approach the miles-driven-per-gallon-consumed level of gasoline. The biggest problem with corn ethanol is that it only has about a 1.06-1.1 energy-return-on-energy-investment. You aren't buying much with that kind of EROEI. As for the smog, I think that this is a problem that we can fix....actually it is something that I would like my research adviser to begin work on...

Also, I would generally agree that corn and sugar are the only two sources that we really have right now. But, I am also pretty confident that we are near being able to better utilize celluosic forms....the research is promising...

Edit: I should say that ethanol with its octane boost can be more energy efficient (upon use) with a properly tuned engine. I'm not arguing that it is a more efficient fuel, though...its EROEI means that there is no way it could every be viewed as more efficient (in overall life cycle).
 
#48
#48
MontereyVol said:
I've read farmers actually prefer corn over wheat. Wheat seems to have a high intolerance to disease and the market for it fluctuates so wildly that it is a bad investment for them.

Our open market is allowing foreign governments to come in and buy the wheat we produce which is making prices for it jump, but big research companies aren't putting any money into wheat research anymore and concentrating on corn. this shows a problem for long term future growth of wheat
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It just depends on where they are located soil types annual rain fall and so forth and more importantly the the prices of the grains.

Wheat is currenlty trading very high at over 8 bucks on the board.
 
#49
#49
i thought when i was older say in my 60's i'd see gas prices where they are today. this is just ridiculous
 
#50
#50
TennTradition said:
In the numbers necessary to support a fuel market?
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Most definitely. Cane could be raised all over the South Eastern US and parts of Texas as well as California. The problem is the Sugar Lobby will never let it happen due to the large amount of money and control they currently have with import tariffs and HGUE subsidies etc... The Sugar industry is controlled by a very small group of people. For instance they are about the only product (not just commodity) excluded from the recent US Australian free trade agreement a few years ago and they remain out of free trade agreements.
 
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