Gawd I loathe Alabama & Nick

#27
#27
rjd970 said:
Reading comprehension isn’t really your strong suit. The equalize comment was about the ethical practices of each institution. They absolutely aren’t equal despite your attempt to put UT and Bama the same cheating stratosphere.
Click to expand...

Maybe Tennessee should try cheating better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MemphisVol77
#32
#32
bamawriter said:
So Tennessee has a moral high ground because they cheat, but suck at it?
Click to expand...

Compared to Bama, every school in the conference has a morale high ground.

We all cheat, Bama takes it to another level. I would venture to say UGA is approaching it, led by one of the longest tenured Saban disciples leading them.
 
#33
#33
And you know what, good for Bama. If nobody is going to care or look into it, then I don’t blame them. It makes perfect sense to cheat and cheat blatantly. But let’s not pretend we all live in the same glass house.
 
#34
#34
rjd970 said:
Compared to Bama, every school in the conference has a morale high ground.
Click to expand...

That's a lame argument. If "we all cheat," then everyone accepts cheating and there is no moral difference. If Alabama does it more or better, then so what?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Raebo
#35
#35
rjd970 said:
Compared to Bama, every school in the conference has a morale high ground.

We all cheat, Bama takes it to another level. I would venture to say UGA is approaching it, led by one of the longest tenured Saban disciples leading them.
Click to expand...
If by "taking it to another level" you mean they do it better and more efficiently so it is less easily detected, then I agree.

If by "taking it to another level" you mean they do it more often, or on a greater scale, or something like that, then I don't agree.

I mean, there are rumors that Niedermeyer had a party room at a hotel in Knoxville and handed out cash left and right in broad daylight to recruits and current players. In addition to the McDonald's bags of cash. If that isn't "taking it to another level" (of stupidity) then I don't know what is.
 
#36
#36
bamawriter said:
That's a lame argument. If "we all cheat," then everyone accepts cheating and there is no moral difference. If Alabama does it more or better, then so what?
Click to expand...

Are you equating stealing a candy bar with robbing a bank, because it is all theft?

The bank robber has a decidedly better advantage than someone who jacks a car, especially when they can do it with impunity.
 
#37
#37
rjd970 said:
Are you equating stealing a candy bar with robbing a bank, because it is all theft?
Click to expand...

Nope. Not "equating" at all. You've acknowledged that we live in a world where everyone is okay with theft (cheating). That being the case, why limit yourself to stealing a candy bar when you'll get a lot more out of robbing a bank?

The bank robber has a decidedly better advantage than someone who jacks a car, especially when they can do it with impunity.
Click to expand...

You're acting like carjacking is morally superior to bank robbing.
 
#38
#38
BowlBrother85 said:
Outside of the years 1989-1994, Alabama's results were mediocre from the start of the Ray Perkins tenure through the Mike Shula tenure. This is especially true when you also factor in their two separate stretches on probation with sanctions, and their losing records vs their two biggest rivals in those years (Auburn and Tennessee). Alabama was 10-13-1 vs Tennessee and 10-14 vs Auburn. They changed head coaches 5 times, not including the embarrassing Mike Price fiasco. Ray Perkins left them for the worst team in the NFL at the time. Bill Curry left them for the 2nd worst team in the SEC at the time and Dennis Franchione left them for Texas A&M. Mike DuBose left them for his secretary. Mike Price left them for a stripper. Put all of that together and you have mediocrity.
Click to expand...
Put all that together and they STILL went 195-93-2. I would consider mediocre to be going 0-14 against your rival.
 
#39
#39
DukeDaisySam said:
Put all that together and they STILL went 195-93-2. I would consider mediocre to be going 0-14 against your rival.
Click to expand...
I would consider what Tennessee has been since 2007 to be atrocious. I would consider what Alabama was from 1983 to 1988 and then again from 1995 to 2006 to be mediocre... but reasonable people can disagree, I suppose.
 
#42
#42
I understand the Bama hate but geez it literally makes some people lose touch with reality. Everyone cheats. That's not even a question but if anyone thinks Bama cheats on a much larger scale well you're missing a few brain cells. Win 6 championships in 12 years and a continuous line to the NFL. He doesn't even need to sell recruits on anything. Results speak for themselves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Raebo
#43
#43
Mtnvol80 said:
I understand the Bama hate but geez it literally makes some people lose touch with reality. Everyone cheats. That's not even a question but if anyone thinks Bama cheats on a much larger scale well you're missing a few brain cells. Win 6 championships in 12 years and a continuous line to the NFL. He doesn't even need to sell recruits on anything. Results speak for themselves.
Click to expand...

I get that the top talent wants to play for the Bama machine now. But if that is the reason, then how did Saban pull the insane classes he did his first couple of seasons at Bama?

They literally went from mediocre classes to elite classes overnight a la Ole Miss style. And we saw how that ended.
 
#44
#44
rjd970 said:
I get that the top talent wants to play for the Bama machine now. But if that is the reason, then how did Saban pull the insane classes he did his first couple of seasons at Bama?

They literally went from mediocre classes to elite classes overnight a la Ole Miss style. And we saw how that ended.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't call Saban's first few classes at Alabama "insane." They were very good, but not insane. His 2007 bridge class was 12th nationally, 2008 was 3rd, 2009 was 3rd, and 2010 was 4th. He didn't have the #1 class overall until 2011, after the second national championship. He was #1 in the SEC in 2008, but LSU out-recruited him in 2009 and Florida out-recruited him in 2010. For Saban's first few years in Tuscaloosa, LSU and Florida were probably slightly more talented on paper.

Besides, it isn't shocking that Saban showed up at Alabama and immediately improved their recruiting. Alabama was down on their luck, but they were a traditional power. Saban had already won a national championship at LSU - it isn't like he was some no-name or unproven coach. They did not emerge "Ole Miss style." Alabama's mediocre classes before that were a combination of sanctions and bad coaching hires.

Also, I think it is important to keep in mind that at this point Saban excels at recruiting not just because he is a great recruiter but because of reputation. When a player expresses interest in, or commits to Alabama, he shoots up the rankings. Even if he wasn't ranked all that high before. That is how he is currently entrenched as the #1 recruiter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MemphisVol77
#45
#45
rjd970 said:
I get that the top talent wants to play for the Bama machine now. But if that is the reason, then how did Saban pull the insane classes he did his first couple of seasons at Bama?

They literally went from mediocre classes to elite classes overnight a la Ole Miss style. And we saw how that ended.
Click to expand...
His first full recruiting class, in 2008, was ranked third. 18 of their 30 recruits were in-state signees. In regards to their two most high profile out of state recruits, Barrett Jones’ father played basketball at Alabama so it’s no surprise that he wound up in Tuscaloosa. Mark Ingram came all the way from Flint, MI, but his father had a prior relationship with Saban, who was an assistant at MSU when Mark Ingram Sr. was a player there. So no, it wasn’t anything nefarious like what was going on at Ole Miss.
 
#46
#46
Boston Vol said:
His first full recruiting class, in 2008, was ranked third. 18 of their 30 recruits were in-state signees. In regards to their two most high profile out of state recruits, Barrett Jones’ father played basketball at Alabama so it’s no surprise that he wound up in Tuscaloosa. Mark Ingram came all the way from Flint, MI, but his father had a prior relationship with Saban, who was an assistant at MSU when Mark Ingram Sr. was a player there. So no, it wasn’t anything nefarious like what was going on at Ole Miss.
Click to expand...
It's amazing how consistent the percentages of his classes come from inside the state.

2008: 19 of 32 (59%)
2009: 9 of 28 (32%)
2010: 10 of 26 (38%)
2011: 7 of 26 (27%)
2012: 8 of 26 (31%)
2013: 8 of 26 (31%)
2014: 7 of 26 (27%)
2015: 7 of 24 (29%)
2016: 8 of 26 (31%)
2017: 8 of 29 (28%)
2018: 2 of 22 (9%) - Remarkably, this was the first year where a state other than Alabama brought in more of their players. Florida had the most this year.
2019: 6 of 27 (22%)
2020: 8 of 25 (32%)
2021: 5 of 27 (19%) - Second year where the State of Alabama did not bring in the most players.
 
#47
#47
Boston Vol said:
His first full recruiting class, in 2008, was ranked third. 18 of their 30 recruits were in-state signees. In regards to their two most high profile out of state recruits, Barrett Jones’ father played basketball at Alabama so it’s no surprise that he wound up in Tuscaloosa. Mark Ingram came all the way from Flint, MI, but his father had a prior relationship with Saban, who was an assistant at MSU when Mark Ingram Sr. was a player there. So no, it wasn’t anything nefarious like what was going on at Ole Miss.
Click to expand...

OM Class Rankings During Freeze's Tenure (247 rankings):

2013 - #8
2014 - #15
2015 - #17
2016 - #5

OM jumped from #17 to #5 and it took Freeze 3 years to do that. And we KNOW he was cheating.

Bama jumped from #12 to #3 in Saban's first full year, after finishing 7-6. Before that, they weren't in the top 10 for years.

It was literally overnight what Saban did, and it took OM 3 years to get there, with blatant cheating.

You really think Bama didn't do anything nefarious to sign top classes almost right out of the gate with Saban?
 
#48
#48
rjd970 said:
OM Class Rankings During Freeze's Tenure (247 rankings):

2013 - #8
2014 - #15
2015 - #17
2016 - #5

OM jumped from #17 to #5 and it took Freeze 3 years to do that. And we KNOW he was cheating.

Bama jumped from #12 to #3 in Saban's first full year, after finishing 7-6. Before that, they weren't in the top 10 for years.

It was literally overnight what Saban did, and it took OM 3 years to get there, with blatant cheating.

You really think Bama didn't do anything nefarious to sign top classes almost right out of the gate with Saban?
Click to expand...

There are two glaring problems with your argument:
1. Hugh Freeze is not Nick Saban
2. Ole Miss is not Alabama
 
  • Like
Reactions: Boca Vol, Mtnvol80, TrueOrange and 2 others
#49
#49
For folks who think Bama cheats because Saban is there and winning, you are incorrect.

The entire political system of that state is tied up with ensuring Bama wins. It's like an Italian Crime Family. It goes far beyond Saban. Do enough digging and research and you will find it.

Saban doesn't need to dirty his hands. The Bammer Government handles that aspect for him. Saban just has to turn a blind eye.

What TN is accused of is like lifting a Milky Way from Wal Mart compared to what the Bama Mob has going on.

There is a reason th NCAA is afraid of Bama.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top