GDP Growth Anemic

#76
#76
Vols JD said:
Well, Bush’s problem was thinking that Trickle Down Economics would work. At the time we were feeling a dot.com bubble, but we also had a surplus. Bush did his town hall thing trying to promote his ideology, thinking that a large tax cut (which had more windfalls for richer individuals than any other group) would help stimulate the economy. He was wrong in thinking that he could sustain a war and tax cuts during a slight recession. Bush’s idea of lowering taxes (mostly on those with higher incomes), tax cuts for all, deregulation of the housing market, deregulation of the banking market, declining dollar after spending on wars and tax cuts, and “conservative” politics were disastrous. When Bush tried to push regulations most died in the Senate over “conservative” politics. Look, Bush should not hold all of the blame, but by the time he tried to fix his mistakes it was to late. He propagated a mentality that the people’s money should be returned and that national defense spending is vital. Deregulation is not always the answer neither is cutting taxes. Smart deregulation and smart tax cuts are needed and important. Being a great prognosticator of markets would also help. Bush and Clinton both started the same, Clinton was just able to correct the utopian democrat vision before it was to late; Bush never had that luxury. Both followed their ideology to the point of realizing that neither party had the monopoly on good ideas. Ideology is to blame. Clinton just got a head of his ideology and decided to reform welfare and do great things toward later in his presidency. Bush realized the need for regulation and spending on direct middle class stimulation to late and congress stepped in to stop him many times. Clinton, Bush, Obama, and possibly Romney- I like the Clinton’s administration the most of this list. He started out rough but finally got things together (some like to claim that it was the republican congress that caused him get on track but most of this people are just pneumopathological ideologues) Obama has shown the ability to push a full blown ideology aside for what is right, his not completely there yet, but he has shown signs. Romney has also shown great stride in breaking the complete ideological background through his work in Massachusetts. But his rhetoric, lately, has shown him to be an ideologue. His rhetoric shows more spending on defense while creating massive trickle down tax cuts- much of the Bush model; more deregulation to the point of not making sense. The root of Mitt’s 50+ point plan has to do with spending on defense, cutting taxes on those “job creators”, deregulate, deregulate, deregulate, and cutting spending on safety nets- much of the beginning of the bush administrations economic disaster that through us into a great recession. That is what I was referring too when I originally posted (but dumbed down).
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What were the deregulations of the housing market/financial market policies? Can you identify them?

How were the tax cuts disastrous for the economy? Why weren't they likewise disastrous when Obama followed on with them?

How did military spending actually hurt the economy?

We continue to hear that Bush policies tanked the economy and that if we "go back" whatever that means we will tank the economy.

I've yet to see the link explained between specific policies and the Great Recession.
 
#77
#77
Vols JD said:
Na, it is to regressive in nature to work. If you can account for the regressive nature of a "flat or fair tax" than it would be better, but current plans to off set the regressive nature makes it as bad if not worse than what we have today, a progressive tax model.
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Actually, several of the plans are not regressive and have a progressive element.
 
#78
#78
utvolpj said:
just a couple of things that stood out in your wall of text (might be more but it's extremely hard to read). You really believe those to be true?
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Why is it hard to read? Is it too much or incoherent? Sorry, on vacation and threw this together because I was asked to explain myself more.
 
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#80
#80
volinbham said:
Actually, several of the plans are not regressive and have a progressive element.
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Yeah, that is what I meant by it being the same or worse, but you think it would be better than our progressive system now? Maybe! I read a few good plans, but I just don't know how much it would work.
 
#83
#83
Vols JD said:
Yeah, that is what I meant by it being the same or worse, but you think it would be better than our progressive system now? Maybe! I read a few good plans, but I just don't know how much it would work.
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better in the sense that the current code is a massive assemblage of special interest goodies based on who lobbied best.

by massive simplification you partially remove the ability of Congress to give away goodies to any number of special interests.

it's not a total fix but it partially addresses the special interest problem.
 
#84
#84
volinbham said:
What were the deregulations of the housing market/financial market policies? Can you identify them?

How were the tax cuts disastrous for the economy? Why weren't they likewise disastrous when Obama followed on with them?

How did military spending actually hurt the economy?

We continue to hear that Bush policies tanked the economy and that if we "go back" whatever that means we will tank the economy.

I've yet to see the link explained between specific policies and the Great Recession.
Click to expand...

Many did find the Tax Breaks disastrous during Obama administration, the stimulus had a ton of them!!!

Military spending while lowering taxes hurts the economy by creating a weaker dollar and transferring money from other important expenditures.

its not all bush's fault, look at the 2011 budget...


2011 Budget
- Receipts= 2,567 billion (2.5 trillion)
- Expenditures= 3,834 billion (3.8 trillion)

Projected budget deficit
(1.2 trillion) – projected borrowing

Budget deficit= the receipts are less than expenditures or outlays
Budget surplus= the receipts are greater than expenditures or outlays

Since 1970 we see deficit
72% of the years were deficit years
28% surplus years

50/50 republican democrat


National debt
(15 trillion dollars)
The sum of all the budget deficits of the years
+Interest


The US debt
- Public- Banks, Foreign holders (10 trillion)
Foreign holders of US debt- 30%
Domestic holders of US debt- 70%

- Government- Federal reserve (5 trillion)

44% of all foreigners (China 6.6%)
56% by US corporation


1) Discretionary programs (43% of the budget)
Security programs and non-security programs
(63% of the discretionary programs)
Non-security programs
(37%)

2) Non-discretionary/ mandatory programs (2.1 trillion, 57% of the budget…)

Social security- cannot predict how many people retire, die (giving under 18 the pension),
Pell grants- no one gets turned away
Medicare- 65 everyone is enrolled, (rep trying to Block Grant it)
Medicaid- the poor,

2,165 Billion (2.1 trillion)

So, what to do...

Increase the money supply-
-During recession to simulate the economy-
So, what to do:
Open market purchase
Lower the Discount Rate
Lower the reserve ratio or requirement



Decrease the money supply-
-To combat inflation-
What to do:
Open market sales
Raise the Discount rate
Raise the reserve requirement
 
#90
#90
OrangeEmpire said:
Really?
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What, you think I didn't write all of that... I did. Some of my numbers are from gov't sights, but this is my work. And I wrote that crazy long one too. I did write it in "word" first and then copy and pasted from there if that is what you mean...???
 
#91
#91
Vols JD said:
Many did find the Tax Breaks disastrous during Obama administration, the stimulus had a ton of them!!!
Click to expand...

Who are these "many" and which if any claim tax cuts either caused or perpetuated the Great Recession?

Military spending while lowering taxes hurts the economy by creating a weaker dollar and transferring money from other important expenditures.
Click to expand...

Huh? How does military spending lower taxes? How does it weaken the dollar anymore than any other government spending?

its not all bush's fault, look at the 2011 budget...


2011 Budget
- Receipts= 2,567 billion (2.5 trillion)
- Expenditures= 3,834 billion (3.8 trillion)

Projected budget deficit
(1.2 trillion) – projected borrowing

Budget deficit= the receipts are less than expenditures or outlays
Budget surplus= the receipts are greater than expenditures or outlays

Since 1970 we see deficit
72% of the years were deficit years
28% surplus years

50/50 republican democrat


National debt
(15 trillion dollars)
The sum of all the budget deficits of the years
+Interest


The US debt
- Public- Banks, Foreign holders (10 trillion)
Foreign holders of US debt- 30%
Domestic holders of US debt- 70%

- Government- Federal reserve (5 trillion)

44% of all foreigners (China 6.6%)
56% by US corporation


1) Discretionary programs (43% of the budget)
Security programs and non-security programs
(63% of the discretionary programs)
Non-security programs
(37%)

2) Non-discretionary/ mandatory programs (2.1 trillion, 57% of the budget…)

Social security- cannot predict how many people retire, die (giving under 18 the pension),
Pell grants- no one gets turned away
Medicare- 65 everyone is enrolled, (rep trying to Block Grant it)
Medicaid- the poor,

2,165 Billion (2.1 trillion)
Click to expand...

All well and good I guess but it doesn't address the original question - what were the W policies that specifically caused the Great Recession? It's an important question because the economy policy of one side is completely founded on the notion that the prior administration's policies CAUSED the problem they are trying to fix.
 
#92
#92
Vols JD said:
What, you think I didn't write all of that... I did. Some of my numbers are from gov't sights, but this is my work. And I wrote that crazy long one too. I did write it in "word" first and then copy and pasted from there if that is what you mean...???
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Sure thing sparky.......sure thing
 
#93
#93
Gramps said:
Are you an illegal?

I thought I read that you work hard and put in long hours, must not be a real American.






jk Neo... I thought you were basking in the sun playing with baby pythons this week.
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bored xable was,knocked out due to car accident. Alot of americans are hard workers. But my point has truth. Too many regulatoons.
 
#94
#94
volinbham said:
What were the deregulations of the housing market/financial market policies? Can you identify them?

How were the tax cuts disastrous for the economy? Why weren't they likewise disastrous when Obama followed on with them?

How did military spending actually hurt the economy?

We continue to hear that Bush policies tanked the economy and that if we "go back" whatever that means we will tank the economy.

I've yet to see the link explained between specific policies and the Great Recession.
Click to expand...



Are you welcoming JD to the politics forum with a nice little test?

:)
 
#96
#96
2ironVol said:
Sure it does. In the 1980s, the government was responsible for creating MILLIONS of jobs through its billion dollar investment into military weapons development and production.

The government was the single biggest contributor for jobs during the Reagan administration but you won't EVER hear a conservative pop off that fact to you
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this mentality ignores the longer term effect of promoting investment. In fact, this view ignores economics, aside from that which Pelosi and Obama could tell us about.
 
#97
#97
volinbham said:
What were the deregulations of the housing market/financial market policies? Can you identify them?

How were the tax cuts disastrous for the economy? Why weren't they likewise disastrous when Obama followed on with them?

How did military spending actually hurt the economy?

We continue to hear that Bush policies tanked the economy and that if we "go back" whatever that means we will tank the economy.

I've yet to see the link explained between specific policies and the Great Recession.
Click to expand...

Hell, just explain any program, besides trickle down, that might work? Surely he understands that forced trickle down is the same thing, only more depressant to the economy and massively less efficient.
 
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