Geert Wilders’ Freedom Party Wins in the Netherlands!

#26
#26
n_huffhines said:
At best, you're saying Islamic countries (that these immigrants are trying to leave, much like our ancestors) are just behind the times. Christian nations had problems with all of this in the past. As you know, this was a monumental component of our nation's founding.

And not all Christian nations enjoy these freedoms....like in Russia, for example.
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I’m only delineating along the lines of differences in the tenets of Christianity and Islam today. I certainly understand issues and causes that compelled people to cross oceans to come here. While there are Christians in many nations, it does not mean those are Christian nations. Russia, as the charter member of the Soviet Union outlawed religion, particularly Christianity. It only moderated post USSR on the Russian Orthodox Church.
 
#28
#28
EasternVol said:
If Christianity and Islam have the same goal of converting the world then I don't see how one is compatible and the other isn't. I see your point on the laws of a lot of majority Muslim countries, but then most of them are post-colonial totalitarian states, much the same as most post-colonial majority Christian countries.
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They may have the same goal, but what are the methods by which they each do that? But I think that’s a separate issue from compatibility with western culture and our laws, so I don’t want to conflate those two. I guess I would ask how is Islam or Islamic law compatible with US laws and other western countries? I just see many of the tenets of their religion and teachings being directly opposed to Judeo Christian tenets instituted in our laws and Constitution that the totalitarian theocracies in the ME reject.
 
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#29
#29
BernardKingGOAT said:
As a hardcore conservative, white nationalist, why do you care so much about foreign elections?
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I normally neither respond to or debate leftist filth since it may give them the impression I’m willing to compromise but since you’re new at this, I’ll make a one time exception.
 
#30
#30
TNVOLNAVY said:
I normally neither respond to or debate leftist filth since it may give them the impression I’m willing to compromise but since you’re new at this, I’ll make a one time exception.
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New to what? I thought I asked you a legitimate question, at least based on your last two thread postings. You didn't answer my question, but certainly confirmed my opinion of you with your response. 🤭🤭🤭
 
#31
#31
Vol737 said:
Bad take. The only point being made and is the primary goal of Islam is that no other religion remains other than Islam. That is their expectation. Hence, it is incompatible with the western world because it doesn’t value freedom of religion for others at all.
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So, your solution is?
 
#33
#33
Vol737 said:
They may have the same goal, but what are the methods by which they each do that? But I think that’s a separate issue from compatibility with western culture and our laws, so I don’t want to conflate those two. I guess I would ask how is Islam or Islamic law compatible with US laws and other western countries? I just see many of the tenets of their religion and teachings being directly opposed to Judeo Christian tenets instituted in our laws and Constitution that the totalitarian theocracies in the ME reject.
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Let's see, Christians and Muslims try to gain converts through good works, being good examples, and missionary work. Christians are generally more active in missionary work from what I've seen. So that's a wash.
AFAIK there's no standard codified Islamic law like there's no standard codified Christian law. I'd ask what differences in source scriptures and dogma would make laws derived from one set and not the other compatible with Western values.
You raise a very good point in that last sentence: we have a constitutional republic with a bill of rights while the tyrannies in the ME are theocracies. Our setup is far better. Theocracies, of any persuasion, are bad news.
 
#36
#36
EasternVol said:
Yet Christianity is much more aggressive with proselytizing and wants to convert the world. Is Christianity compatible with the Western World?
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Is Western Civilization Buddhist? Is it Islamic?

Are classes on Western Civilization bemoaned on college campuses these days because teaching the rise of Western Civilization centers brown Hindus?

Western Civilization is rooted in the Judeo-Christian faith. You know this.
 
#37
#37
85SugarVol said:
Is Western Civilization Buddhist? Is it Islamic?

Are classes on Western Civilization bemoaned on college campuses these days because teaching the rise of Western Civilization centers brown Hindus?

Western Civilization is rooted in the Judeo-Christian faith. You know this.
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No, and it's not Christian either.
I don't know what 'centers brown Hindus' is supposed to mean.
Western Civilization is not rooted in Zoroaster-Judeo-Christian faith. It has its basis in ancient Greece and Rome.
 
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#38
#38
EasternVol said:
No, and it's not Christian either. I don't know what 'centers brown Hindus' is supposed to mean.
Western Civilization is not rooted in Zoroaster-Judeo-Christian faith. It has its basis in ancient Greece and Rome.
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It grew out of Greece & Rome.

It spread across Europe. And Christianity with it. It made its way to the New World, and Christianity came with it.

The two are inextricably linked.

Why is there such pushback against Western Civ I & II on college campuses these days?
 
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#39
#39
85SugarVol said:
It grew out of Greece & Rome.

It spread across Europe. And Christianity with it. It made its way to the New World, and Christianity came with it.

The two are inextricably linked.

Why is there such pushback against Western Civ I & II on college campuses these days?
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It spread across most of Europe before Christianity arrived. It's not Christianity that makes Europe, ANZ, and the Western Hemisphere Western.
 
#40
#40
EasternVol said:
It spread across most of Europe before Christianity arrived. It's not Christianity that makes Europe, ANZ, and the Western Hemisphere Western.
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I’ve seen people argue a lot of things. You included. I’ve never seen someone try and downplay the outsized impact Christianity had on Western Civilization.

Christianity has been walking hand in hand with Western Civilization since before the Carolingian Empire. Well before.
 
#41
#41
85SugarVol said:
I’ve seen people argue a lot of things. You included. I’ve never seen someone try and downplay the outsized impact Christianity had on Western Civilization.

Christianity has been walking hand in hand with Western Civilization since before the Carolingian Empire. Well before.
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Are Ethiopia and Armenia considered Western? The Philippines? They've been Christian for ages. It's not Christianity that makes a place Western. Iberia was Christian, then Muslim, then Christian. Was it more or less Western when Ferdinand and Isabella got control? This goes back to an assertions that Islam is incompatible with the Western world, including 'because it doesn’t value freedom of religion for others'. People can be Western or not regardless of their religious affiliation.
 
#42
#42
EasternVol said:
Are Ethiopia and Armenia considered Western? The Philippines? They've been Christian for ages. It's not Christianity that makes a place Western. Iberia was Christian, then Muslim, then Christian. Was it more or less Western when Ferdinand and Isabella got control? This goes back to an assertions that Islam is incompatible with the Western world, including 'because it doesn’t value freedom of religion for others'. People can be Western or not regardless of their religious affiliation.
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Of course people can be Western regardless of their religious affiliation.

That doesn’t mean Western Civilization wasn’t shaped by Christianity.

And there is certainly Eastern Christianity, which you obviously know. It is distinct and different from Western Christianity.
 
#43
#43
85SugarVol said:
Of course people can be Western regardless of their religious affiliation.
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We agree.
85SugarVol said:
That doesn’t mean Western Civilization wasn’t shaped by Christianity.
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I can't think of any attributes of Western civilization / culture that are of specifically Christian origin.
85SugarVol said:
And there is certainly Eastern Christianity, which you obviously know. It is distinct and different from Western Christianity.
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We agree.
 
#48
#48
EasternVol said:
We agree.

I can't think of any attributes of Western civilization / culture that are of specifically Christian origin.

We agree.
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Feels like you’re slipping into semantics here.

A particular influence can be 80% responsible for an outcome and be described as not being “specifically” or “solely” responsible for said outcome.

There have likely been over 1000 texts, from 1000 authors, over the last 1000 years detailing Christianity and its impact in the shaping of Western Civilization.

Are they all wrong?
 
#50
#50
EasternVol said:
I can't think of any attributes of Western civilization / culture that are of specifically Christian origin.
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It's intertwined enough that you have to admit that Christianity influenced WC. There is no way around that...but the truth is probably that Christianity moreso was influenced by western civilization for the purposes of this thread where we're talking about things like democracy and freedom of speech. The foundation was indisputably laid by Greco-Roman cultures.

And....the Islamic world was a big influence over the development of WC, too. If the Islamic world had been fused with Greco-Roman culture and Christianity hadn't, history and current Islam/Christianity would be much different.

en.wikipedia.org

Islamic world contributions to Medieval Europe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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