Getting Banks under Control.......

#26
#26
rjd970 said:
Nobody is saying torpedo the entire system. I am simply suggesting that banks being too big creates financial risk on a national level given the way the rest of the system operates. I don't think the advantage to the consumer is worth the risk, and quite frankly, you would be hard pressed to find many consumers right now saying those advantages are worth it.

All I'm saying is if you state it is what it is with how the current capitalist system works, then having megabanks creates risk.
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the old song "you don't know what you got till its gone" comes to mind. my contention is you can't stop a situation like this without torpedoing lending in this country. Any housing Collapse is going to create systematic risks. Either one big bank wiLl need to be supported or it will be ten small ones. The savings and loan crisis is a perfect example of this
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#27
#27
droski said:
the old song "you don't know what you got till its gone" comes to mind. my contention is you can't stop a situation like this without torpedoing lending in this country. Any housing Collapse is going to create systematic risks. Either one big bank wiLl need to be supported or it will be ten small ones. The savings and loan crisis is a perfect example of this
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Hasn't lending been torpedoed anyway? Isn't lending by these institutions way down from before the collapse? You even said this:

i truly don't think regulating the crap out of the banks would stop future bubbles. it only would prevent peopel from getting the loans they need (particurally people without perfect credit) which will torpedo the economy worse than before.
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Is that not what we are experiencing right now?

I have always thought "too big to fail" was bogus, and a copout from dealing with the harsh reality of operating in a captialistic system. A true capitalist would agree that they should have been allowed to fail. It's the nature of the beast. With regard to lending by these institutions, it seems we are in the same boat anyway if they had been allowed to fail, it isn't like they are lending to everybody again.
 
#28
#28
it has been torpedoed and a lot of that problem is they are worried they will have to write the loans down immediately due to the legistlation just put in. the banks will return to lending to everybody eventually. right now they are in survival mode.
 
#29
#29
I can fix banks with 4 easy steps:

1) Eliminate the Federal Reserve
2) Return to sound currency (unless you like having your wealth in paper backed by nothing)
3) Eliminate fractional reserve banking (if you don't understand what this is, it is how money is created, go read some monetary theory)
4) Allow competing curriencies

Do those 4 things and the economy turns around VERY quickly. If you don't understand what I wrote and the benefit, go read some history books.
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#30
#30
MystifyingVol said:
I can fix banks with 4 easy steps:

1) Eliminate the Federal Reserve
2) Return to sound currency (unless you like having your wealth in paper backed by nothing)
3) Eliminate fractional reserve banking (if you don't understand what this is, it is how money is created, go read some monetary theory)
4) Allow competing curriencies

Do those 4 things and the economy turns around VERY quickly. If you don't understand what I wrote and the benefit, go read some history books.
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yeah let's eliminate the primary reason for the greatest economic expansion in modern history. Makes sense to me
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#31
#31
MystifyingVol said:
I can fix banks with 4 easy steps:

1) Eliminate the Federal Reserve
2) Return to sound currency (unless you like having your wealth in paper backed by nothing)
3) Eliminate fractional reserve banking (if you don't understand what this is, it is how money is created, go read some monetary theory)
4) Allow competing curriencies

Do those 4 things and the economy turns around VERY quickly. If you don't understand what I wrote and the benefit, go read some history books.
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The need for a gold standard has been overblown..........just a bit.
 
#32
#32
i didn't realize anyone actually believed that garbage anymore. can you imagine how screwed we'd be today if we were still on the gold standard? no doubt in my mind unemployment would be double what it is today without the fed throwing trillions at the markets. apparently this guy hasn't read anything about why the great depression happened.
 
#33
#33
droski said:
i didn't realize anyone actually believed that garbage anymore. can you imagine how screwed we'd be today if we were still on the gold standard? no doubt in my mind unemployment would be double what it is today without the fed throwing trillions at the markets. apparently this guy hasn't read anything about why the great depression happened.
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So, you like the ability to inflate our currency at a whim's notice where the first person receiving the new money is the one that wins? Inflation is a horrible tax on the poorest people in our society, guess you don't care about those guys?

Baloney on gold causing the great depression. Some people still consider it a safe haven, I've gained about 300% on my gold holdings in the last 5 years while purchasing power of the dollar has decreased, go keep living in your fantasy world.

I love how you think gov't meddling in the markets makes things better.
 
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#34
#34
MystifyingVol said:
So, you like the ability to inflate our currency at a whim's notice where the first person receiving the new money is the one that wins? Inflation is a horrible tax on the poorest people in our society, guess you don't care about those guys?

Baloney on gold causing the great depression. Some people still consider it a safe haven, I've gained about 300% on my gold holdings in the last 5 years while purchasing power of the dollar has decreased, go keep living in your fantasy world.

I love how you think gov't meddling in the markets makes things better.
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:unsure:
 
#35
#35
MystifyingVol said:
So, you like the ability to inflate our currency at a whim's notice where the first person receiving the new money is the one that wins? Inflation is a horrible tax on the poorest people in our society, guess you don't care about those guys?

Baloney on gold causing the great depression. Some people still consider it a safe haven, I've gained about 300% on my gold holdings in the last 5 years while purchasing power of the dollar has decreased, go keep living in your fantasy world.

I love how you think gov't meddling in the markets makes things better.
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Umm inflation over the past 15 years has been under 4% a year. Far lower than wage growth during that time. As for gold it hasn't been a good investment. It's returned less than inflation over the past 30 years. Govt intervention of the money supply has only created the best sustained growth in US history. Also enjoy your gold investment when it halves like it has after every gold bubble in history.
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#36
#36
droski said:
Umm inflation over the past 15 years has been under 4% a year. Far lower than wage growth during that time. As for gold it hasn't been a good investment. It's returned less than inflation over the past 30 years. Govt intervention of the money supply has only created the best sustained growth in US history. Also enjoy your gold investment when it halves like it has after every gold bubble in history.
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I don't buy that. At least not for the entire spectrum of earners. I'm sure the top wage earners have enjoyed that kind of growth, but I'm not so sure the lower and middle income people have.
 
#37
#37
rjd970 said:
I don't buy that. At least not for the entire spectrum of earners. I'm sure the top wage earners have enjoyed that kind of growth, but I'm not so sure the lower and middle income people have.
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Median numbers rule that kind of skew out.
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#38
#38
BigPapaVol said:
Median numbers rule that kind of skew out.
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Even so, now that I think about it, I bet even the top wage earners saw lower income growth the last couple of years when the bubble burst.

I don't have the data in front of me and I don't really have the energy to look, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if nobody outpaced inflation the last couple of years.

....also, with all the money being pumped into the market right now we should see inflation skyrocket in the near future.
 
#39
#39
rjd970 said:
I don't buy that. At least not for the entire spectrum of earners. I'm sure the top wage earners have enjoyed that kind of growth, but I'm not so sure the lower and middle income people have.
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I can't speculate whether the data is skewed to high-wage earners, but if you look at the data - on average - droski is dead on.

real+wage+1+84.bmp


Wages Based on BLS Data

Inflation Based on Personal Consumption Expenditures
 
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#40
#40
orangeblooded2 said:
I can hardly wait....for them to explain their own parties split\bipartisanship on this issue.
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VolInMn said:
I'll help kick it off:

The federal government has no business in this. This is clearly an issue for the states!

Oh, and capitalism! ;)
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The need for regulation doesn't mean the need for more regulation. We have rules that work and rules that don't but I doubt you'll find anyone from the right who wants banks completely unregulated.

WRT bipartisanship, Dodd has tossed that out the window on this one. There was principle agreement on reg. reform that would have easily gotten 80 Senate votes. Almost every issue had been worked out. Instead, Dodd pushed his plan that Rs will not get behind. I have no doubt it is a strategy aimed at embarrassing Rs rather than doing what is in the best interests of the country.
 
#43
#43
paul1454 said:
I can't speculate whether the data is skewed to high-wage earners, but if you look at the data - on average - droski is dead on.
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people understimate the huge wage growth during the mid to late 90s and no it just wasn't the upper class. in many ways it was a wage bubble.
 
#45
#45
rjd970 said:
What is the vertical axis here? I'm reading 14.5% to 17%....2.5% increase over the last 19 years, on average. That is smaller than 4% inflation.
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Oh no, it is not percentages. The vertical axis is wages per hour adjusted for inflation (using today's wages as the base amount rather than using a past data point - that is why prior year's values were adjusted up rather than current wages adjusted down). The values really aren't important, only that there is an upward trend (i.e., average wages are growing faster than inflation).
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#46
#46
rjd970 said:
What is the vertical axis here? I'm reading 14.5% to 17%....2.5% increase over the last 19 years, on average. That is smaller than 4% inflation.
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Just in case you don't trust my chart (which I can't say that I blame you - not knowing me from Adam), here is one from economist Stephen Gordon that pretty much shows the same.

p_rw_81_06.png
 
#47
#47
paul1454 said:
Oh no, it is not percentages. The vertical axis is wages per hour adjusted for inflation (using today's wages as the base amount rather than using a past data point - that is why prior year's values were adjusted up rather than current wages adjusted down). The values really aren't important, only that there is an upward trend (i.e., average wages are growing faster than inflation).
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Gotcha. It's not that I didn't trust your chart, I just wasn't sure what it was saying.
 
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