Gibson Guitars is facing bankruptcy

#26
#26
Brave Volunteer said:
Not true. These guitars are made by a very automated process nowadays. They aren't hand carved by luthiers in little shops anymore like freaking Geppetto. In fact, Gibson proudly proclaims that their guitar building is a highly automated process that ensures cohesive quality across the board from one guitar to the next. Yes, parts of their guitars are hand ASSEMBLED, like gluing the neck to the body or putting in the electronics. But every guitar company does that. Its not unique to Gibson. Hand painted?
Well sure, if you consider a guy in a white jumpsuit airbrushing cherry sunburst "hand painted." Which btw, is NOT a time consuming process. I've watched videos of these things being panted and you'd be amazed at how fast those sunburst finishes get painted. Frets are leveled by a "plex machine." The bodies are cut out of a slab of mahogany by a huge machine from a programmed pattern. The only process that's really time consuming is applying the Nitrocellulose clear coat finish, which I believe is a 4 step process.
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Maybe you know something I don't or some processes have changed. I'm guessing the Memphis facility pumps out about 50 guitars a day. I don't see them bragging about high automation or productivity rates there.
 
#27
#27
n_huffhines said:
Boohoo. You can't afford them so people should lose their livelihood? What is wrong with you?
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Do you even play? Gibson deserves every bit of mud slung at them. Insane prices for very average products, and it's a damn shame that so many artists wasted their money on such a BS company. They couldn't keep up with the times and made no effort to adjust. I can all but guarantee that anyone who works/worked for the company knew what they were in for.
 
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#28
#28
allvol123 said:
Maybe you know something I don't or some processes have changed. I'm guessing the Memphis facility pumps out about 50 guitars a day. I don't see them bragging about high automation or productivity rates there.
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I'm not sure how many finished guitars roll off the line each day. All I can tell you is Gibson's guitar building process isn't any more unique than any other guitar company out there who are managing to do it at a fraction of the cost and in many cases are producing superior products.

Look I don't have a dog in this hunt anymore. I've owned Les Pauls and enjoyed them well enough when I had them. However after years of playing and owning many other brands, you begin to realize how horse**** their quality to pricing ratio really is. Right now I have a Korean made Agile 3000M single cut guitar that I paid 300.00 for. The only modifications I made to it was I put in a Switchcraft selector switch (10.00), and metal jack plate (3.00), and I dropped in a couple of Seymour Duncan pick ups that I already had (and mind you, the Alnico V pickups that came with the guitar were perfectly fine! I just wanted a specific tone with my SD's). I can honestly say that guitar smokes the 2 Les Pauls I owned! The neck feels WAY better than either of the LP's I had. The tone is great. It's just a dream to play and I paid a total of 320.00 with mods included. Oh, and my guitar has a real ebony fingerboard (not that richlite horsecrap that Gibson uses) and real mother of pearl trapezoid inlay, not that fake "pearloid" crap.

If anyone is in the market for a new guitar, I highly recommend Agiles! They are fantastic.

Rondo Music Electric Guitars
 
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#29
#29
Brave Volunteer said:
I'm not sure how many finished guitars roll off the line each day. All I can tell you is Gibson's guitar building process isn't any more unique than any other guitar company out there who are managing to do it at a fraction of the cost and in many cases are producing superior products.

Look I don't have a dog in this hunt anymore. I've owned Les Pauls and enjoyed them well enough when I had them. However after years of playing and owning many other brands, you begin to realize how horse**** their quality to pricing ratio really is. Right now I have a Korean made Agile 3000M single cut guitar that I paid 300.00 for. The only modifications I made to it was I put in a Switchcraft selector switch (10.00), and metal jack plate (3.00), and I dropped in a couple of Seymour Duncan pick ups that I already had (and mind you, the Alnico V pickups that came with the guitar were perfectly fine! I just wanted a specific tone with my SD's). I can honestly say that guitar smokes the 2 Les Pauls I owned! The neck feels WAY better than either of the LP's I had. The tone is great. It's just a dream to play and I paid a total of 320.00 with mods included. Oh, and my guitar has a real ebony fingerboard (not that richlite horsecrap that Gibson uses) and real mother of pearl trapezoid inlay, not that fake "pearloid" crap.

If anyone is in the market for a new guitar, I highly recommend Agiles! They are fantastic.

Rondo Music Electric Guitars
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I am not arguing for the quality of a Gibson or lack thereof. I know the high price is based on branding. It is much of the point for owning a Gibson, Harley Davidson, Mercedes Benz, etc.

I disagree with claiming every guitar factory in the world produces in exactly the same way. Hell,I'd venture to say their 3 factories...Memphis, Nashville, and Montana don't even produce in the exact same way.
 
#30
#30
allvol123 said:
I am not arguing for the quality of a Gibson or lack thereof. I know the high price is based on branding. It is much of the point for owning a Gibson, Harley Davidson, Mercedes Benz, etc.

I disagree with claiming every guitar factory in the world produces in exactly the same way. Hell,I'd venture to say their 3 factories...Memphis, Nashville, and Montana don't even produce in the exact same way.
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Right now I would recommend a high end Epiphone Les Paul over a Gibson. The quality-cost ratio is way more favorable.
 
#35
#35
Brave Volunteer said:
I'm not sure how many finished guitars roll off the line each day. All I can tell you is Gibson's guitar building process isn't any more unique than any other guitar company out there who are managing to do it at a fraction of the cost and in many cases are producing superior products.

Look I don't have a dog in this hunt anymore. I've owned Les Pauls and enjoyed them well enough when I had them. However after years of playing and owning many other brands, you begin to realize how horse**** their quality to pricing ratio really is. Right now I have a Korean made Agile 3000M single cut guitar that I paid 300.00 for. The only modifications I made to it was I put in a Switchcraft selector switch (10.00), and metal jack plate (3.00), and I dropped in a couple of Seymour Duncan pick ups that I already had (and mind you, the Alnico V pickups that came with the guitar were perfectly fine! I just wanted a specific tone with my SD's). I can honestly say that guitar smokes the 2 Les Pauls I owned! The neck feels WAY better than either of the LP's I had. The tone is great. It's just a dream to play and I paid a total of 320.00 with mods included. Oh, and my guitar has a real ebony fingerboard (not that richlite horsecrap that Gibson uses) and real mother of pearl trapezoid inlay, not that fake "pearloid" crap.

If anyone is in the market for a new guitar, I highly recommend Agiles! They are fantastic.

Rondo Music Electric Guitars
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I ordered a Rondo J-Bass knock off for $89. The pro set up and fret dress cost more than the instrument. All said, great value.
 
#36
#36
allvol123 said:
I worked for Gibson for several years.

Henry Juskiwiecz (sp?) Runs it and is a real strange dude. Very reclusive.

His partner Dave Berryman runs epiphone and is a Grade A top notch guy.

I worked at each place for about 1.5 years. It was odd to see how different they were and how differently the brands were operated.
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How long ago did you work there? I used to know several guys, but it was many years ago.

I've heard a ton of stories about how big of an a-hole HJ is.
 
#40
#40
Well, iirc, it's official. They have filed for bankruptcy protection.
 
#41
#41
Chris4Vols22 said:
Do you even play? Gibson deserves every bit of mud slung at them. Insane prices for very average products, and it's a damn shame that so many artists wasted their money on such a BS company. They couldn't keep up with the times and made no effort to adjust. I can all but guarantee that anyone who works/worked for the company knew what they were in for.
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Yes, I play a little, nothing serious, I own a knockoff strat for electric. It's irrelevant to the point. They may merit bankruptcy, but my point is schadenfreude is for sucks.

Companies make mistakes, but unless they were doing anything shady, it's pretty ****ed up to dance on their grave. That's what it sounded like OP was doing when he said "serves them right" and then clarified that by subtracting employees (which includes the people that made these bad decisions, so who is he talking about?) from "them".
 
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#42
#42
With all of these artist not even using instruments any more i’m Not surprised.
 
#44
#44
CagleMtnVol said:
Was Gibson the the company that Obama went after for using illegal wood or something?
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Boston Vol said:
Yes
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burntorangeVOLffle said:
What ever came of that? I read they settled. Did it turn out they broke laws or not?
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Yes, Gibson was in the wrong and feds were in the right. Gibson paid some heft fines and made some considerable donations to get out of it. I've owned 4 different Gibsons in the past and ended up trading each one after only a few months. Overpriced and quality not there. I'll stick with my Strats.
 
#46
#46
Slydell said:
Yes, Gibson was in the wrong and feds were in the right. Gibson paid some heft fines and made some considerable donations to get out of it. I've owned 4 different Gibsons in the past and ended up trading each one after only a few months. Overpriced and quality not there. I'll stick with my Strats.
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Same except I’m a Tele guy. I’ve never got the Gibson hype, at least not for the price.
 
#47
#47
volfan_89 said:
Same except I’m a Tele guy. I’ve never got the Gibson hype, at least not for the price.
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There's only so much you can do with a guitar. I have a friend who is wanting to order a custom strat from Fender. I told him he's crazy. With computers able to cut out the body template, you can get a near flawless body for next tonothing. Plus, even a $3000 instrument has to be set up.

I have a $2000 bass guitar I've owned for years and it's far from perfect. I purchased an Ibanez SR505 and plays and sounds better. Mahogany body and bubinga neck with Bartolini active pick ups. Paid under $500.


Gibson and Fender have been charging a fortune for essebtially building there own replicas. When is the last time they had any original idea? Same old designs. The difference is Fender has there own Econoline (Squire) and have bought out most of the competition.
 
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#48
#48
Roustabout said:
There's only so much you can do with a guitar. I have a friend who is wanting to order a custom strat from Fender. I told him he's crazy. With computers able to cut out the body template, you can get a near flawless body for next tonothing. Plus, even a $3000 instrument has to be set up.

I have a $2000 bass guitar I've owned for years and it's far from perfect. I purchased an Ibanez SR505 and plays and sounds better. Mahogany body and bubinga neck with Bartolini active pick ups. Paid under $500.


Gibson and Fender have been charging a fortune for essebtially building there own replicas. When is the last time they had any original idea? Same old designs. The difference is Fender has there own Econoline (Squire) and have bought out most of the competition.
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The bottom line is overseas factories have caught up to US factories in terms of build quality and those instruments can be sold at a far cheaper price. To the "working" musicians and hobbyists, these guitars carry a far greater performance/cost ratio than the U.S. made counterparts. Now, purists will scream "resale value, resale value!" However that is such a myth! Unless you own a TRUE vintage, 1950's-1960's instrument, it's almost guaranteed that you will wind up selling your guitars for less money than you paid for them! I don't buy guitars to make money. I buy guitars to play them. They're tools of the trade so to speak (though I'm not a professional player). So as long as Gibson or any other guitar company insists on pricing their stuff to only be afforded by doctors and lawyers, the import models are going to continue to kick their asses.
 
#49
#49
Brave Volunteer said:
The bottom line is overseas factories have caught up to US factories in terms of build quality and those instruments can be sold at a far cheaper price. To the "working" musicians and hobbyists, these guitars carry a far greater performance/cost ratio than the U.S. made counterparts. Now, purists will scream "resale value, resale value!" However that is such a myth! Unless you own a TRUE vintage, 1950's-1960's instrument, it's almost guaranteed that you will wind up selling your guitars for less money than you paid for them! I don't buy guitars to make money. I buy guitars to play them. They're tools of the trade so to speak (though I'm not a professional player). So as long as Gibson or any other guitar company insists on pricing their stuff to only be afforded by doctors and lawyers, the import models are going to continue to kick their asses.
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Great points.
I buy instruments to play and don't care much for the collectors aspects. I can tell you that there are a lot of copies on the market that are hard for the average player to differentiate.
I just looked to buy an alleged Fender Pbass. Guy was selling as a Fender. It wasn't. It was an after market knock off neck on what appeared to be a Squire body.

I took it home and went over it carefully. Had authentic looking decals on head stock but wasn't real. Still played and felt fine.

I ordered a Chinese J bass copy for $171 shipped. I'll let you know what I think.

You can get an Ammoon from Walmart online for $90 and it's a solid wood body and Maple neck. And many players rate it better than a Squire.
 
#50
#50
Brave Volunteer said:
So as long as Gibson or any other guitar company insists on pricing their stuff to only be afforded by doctors and lawyers, the import models are going to continue to kick their asses.
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For the record, I love my Epiphone LP. I just couldn't justify the price tag for a Gibson custom shop model. I'm not a professional musician, and the sound of an electric really depends more on the processing than anything to me. It comes down to playability, and I am perfectly happy with my $1000 or less electrics. It seemed more sensible to spend my money on quality software and reference speakers.

Now, if we are talking acoustics, that's a different story.
 
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